Posted 1st Jan 2022 (Posted 8 h, 7 m ago)
I sold an old dimplex fire for £80 on gumtree at the beginning of December. The lady came to my house and paid cash. She said her mum's central heating had broke down so she needed a fire until the heating could be fixed. I turned the appliance on so she could see it was working.

She asked me to give her a receipt for the fire as it was not a purchase for her but for her mother. I thought it was a bit odd as I have never been asked to give a receipt before but I thought there wasn't any harm in doing so. I wrote out the name of the appliance and that I had received the £80 cash from her. She asked me to date the receipt, which I did.

She messaged me yesterday with the following message

"You should never have had it up for sale My mother has in the last few days had the firemen to her property due to the fire Not safe to use. The firemen have advised my mother that it should never had been sold to her.Therefore my mother is due a refund"

Any thoughts guys?
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Central heating has been fixed, no longer wants the heater & requires her "rental fee" back.... Jog on.
Edited by: "richp" 7 h, 54 m ago
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So much debate over such nothingness, regardless of consequential disaster claims.
Private sale viewed functional and accepted by buyer as such. End of.

Already eagerly awaiting next life-changing Mutters thread.
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She knew what she was doing when she asked for a receipt. Have sold countless items face to face and have never been asked for this (apart from when selling cars when I always mark item as "sold as seen"). 100% she's trying it on. Ignore and move on
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You’ve probably done a lot of googling on this topic already.
As far as I’m aware with second hand goods bought, they have no recourse unless the item is mis-described - which yours wasn’t (I understand)
For quickness I’ve taken a screenshot from which.co.uk
46589136-CDkLv.jpgif anything the fireman (which I don’t believe for a minute is true) should’ve told her she shouldn’t have bought it.
Caveat Emptor and all that. If you really want to string them along rather than just saying Get Lost, ask them to get a report from the fire brigade.
I suspect the heating has now been fixed and she wants to return it and get her money back. There is no legal obligation to offer a refund.
54 Comments
  1. Avatar
    No obvious indication you have intentionally scammed the buyer but others may disagree?
  2. Avatar
    Central heating has been fixed, no longer wants the heater & requires her "rental fee" back.... Jog on.
    Edited by: "richp" 7 h, 54 m ago
  3. Avatar
    Why not ask how her mums heating is now, I assume it's fixed?

    If it was me, and knowing that it was not unsafe from me using it before, I would say that it was sold as seen and no guarantee was offered with it.

    But I can see it from their point of view too, if it is unsafe, then why should they be out of pocket.
  4. Avatar
    They are not saying it caused a fire but firemen attended. I call bs. Firemen won't attend if there's no fire and it's not a safety visit as it would be differently addressed. They have heating working now as said above and no need for this.
    Edited by: "Modded" 7 h, 37 m ago
  5. Avatar
    You’ve probably done a lot of googling on this topic already.
    As far as I’m aware with second hand goods bought, they have no recourse unless the item is mis-described - which yours wasn’t (I understand)
    For quickness I’ve taken a screenshot from which.co.uk
    46589136-CDkLv.jpgif anything the fireman (which I don’t believe for a minute is true) should’ve told her she shouldn’t have bought it.
    Caveat Emptor and all that. If you really want to string them along rather than just saying Get Lost, ask them to get a report from the fire brigade.
    I suspect the heating has now been fixed and she wants to return it and get her money back. There is no legal obligation to offer a refund.
  6. Avatar
    Author
    AndyRoyd01/01/2022 16:45

    No obvious indication you have intentionally scammed the buyer but others …No obvious indication you have intentionally scammed the buyer but others may disagree?


    the fire was given to us by my in-laws some years ago. they had put it into a rental property for a year before the sold the property so they gave it to us. we used it about 10 times when the heating needed a boost on return from winter holidays and it worked perfectly fine. it has a maximum of 2kW rating.

    we haven't actually used it for a few years now, which is why I decided to sell it as we no longer need it. It is still in working condition. i certainly would not sell something that was faulty as i specifically turned the heater on when she came so she could see that it was working.

    i feel i am being scammed but i would like to see what other people think.
  7. Avatar
    richp01/01/2022 16:47

    Central heating has been fixed, no longer wants the heater & requires her …Central heating has been fixed, no longer wants the heater & requires her "rental fee" back.... Jog on.


    I think richp is on the money!
    Of course it's a scam - why else would they take the time to get a receipt from you? It's all designed to guilt you into refunding (worse thing to do - as if you do give a refund you may or may not get back the actual item you originally sold in the same condition!) Keep us informed with what happens so we can all learn!
  8. Avatar
    She knew what she was doing when she asked for a receipt. Have sold countless items face to face and have never been asked for this (apart from when selling cars when I always mark item as "sold as seen"). 100% she's trying it on. Ignore and move on
  9. Avatar
    I feel like the issue is she now has the heating repaired and its a 'no longer required' purchase.

    I'm also curious to know why the fire brigade were out - did it cause a fire? Did she take ill? If not why? Most regions at the moment arent doing any sort of safety visits due to Covid, especially not between Christmas and New Year. Also, from experience, when gas engineers find something unsafe (especially fires etc.) they actually physically disconnect them so they cannot be used. I'd be extra wary if that wasnt the case.

    I'd go with your gut here - they are trying to scam you. Send the link from Which and say 'goodbye'
  10. Avatar
    Author
    aLV42601/01/2022 16:59

    I think richp is on the money! Of course it's a scam - why else would they …I think richp is on the money! Of course it's a scam - why else would they take the time to get a receipt from you? It's all designed to guilt you into refunding (worse thing to do - as if you do give a refund you may or may not get back the actual item you originally sold in the same condition!) Keep us informed with what happens so we can all learn!


    she wouldn't want to return the item because it is still working, so she would not be able to ask for a refund because she no longer needs it. therefore i believe she has said it has caught fire so that she doesn't have to return it, which would still be in working order. i think she also wants to keep it as she was interested in this fire because it was an older model and had less controls on the appliance.

    she specifically asked me about the controls as she said her mother had bought a similar appliance from argos recently, but had to return it because the controls were too complicated for her mother to cope with as she is elderly.

    markmc99901/01/2022 17:02

    I feel like the issue is she now has the heating repaired and its a 'no …I feel like the issue is she now has the heating repaired and its a 'no longer required' purchase. I'm also curious to know why the fire brigade were out - did it cause a fire? Did she take ill? If not why? Most regions at the moment arent doing any sort of safety visits due to Covid, especially not between Christmas and New Year. Also, from experience, when gas engineers find something unsafe (especially fires etc.) they actually physically disconnect them so they cannot be used. I'd be extra wary if that wasnt the case. I'd go with your gut here - they are trying to scam you. Send the link from Which and say 'goodbye'


    it's an electric fire.
    Edited by: "mutley1" 7 h, 35 m ago
  11. Avatar
    There could be another reason - £80 for an old Dimplex fire, when you can get a new one for £99.99! Buyers remorse perhaps?
    very.co.uk/dim….ds

    The last time I had fun selling on (IIRC) gumtree was some concert tickets (remember when those where a thing!). The guy called round and questioned their authenticity - he paid cash at which point I asked him how he could prove the authenticity of his money. I also pointed out that he had the advantage of knowing where I lived!
  12. Avatar
    mutley101/01/2022 17:06

    she wouldn't want to return the item because it is still working, so she …she wouldn't want to return the item because it is still working, so she would not be able to ask for a refund because she no longer needs it. therefore i believe she has said it has caught fire so that she doesn't have to return it, which would still be in working order. i think she also wants to keep it as she was interested in this fire because it was an older model and had less controls on the appliance.she specifically asked me about the controls as she said her mother had bought a similar appliance from argos recently, but had to return it because the controls were too complicated for her mother to cope with as she is elderly.it's an electric fire.


    Sorry this is what I get for speed reading...

    So, its caught fire? If so the fire brigade still leave everything at the scene for investigation and insurance purposes.

    Electric - same applies, they are usually 'made safe' so that it cannot be used again.
  13. Avatar
    I would just reply back,
    the fire was working safely when you personally inspected it, I can't be held responsible for your actions with the fire from when it left my property, have a good evening.
    Edited by: "nopartylikeansclubparty" 7 h, 25 m ago
  14. Avatar
    Author
    aLV42601/01/2022 17:10

    There could be another reason - £80 for an old Dimplex fire, when you can …There could be another reason - £80 for an old Dimplex fire, when you can get a new one for £99.99! Buyers remorse perhaps?https://www.very.co.uk/dimplex-mcfstv12e-micro-stove-fire/1600674426.prd?sku=sku24379151&cm_mmc=google-_-PLA+-+Generic-_-Ad+group-_-PRODUCT_GROUP_p66785823285_&utm_campaign=Generic_Electricals+-+Generic+-+SSC&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_term=PRODUCT_GROUP&campaigntype=shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAlMCOBhCZARIsANLid6ZF5LkEnq3JaoVwTMdpxD6-YECk2LkE6hL3sfF0tAL0z61n5TkjOtwaAknvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.dsThe last time I had fun selling on (IIRC) gumtree was some concert tickets (remember when those where a thing!). The guy called round and questioned their authenticity - he paid cash at which point I asked him how he could prove the authenticity of his money. I also pointed out that he had the advantage of knowing where I lived!


    it's an electric fire and it costs £200 brand new. she said her mother had bought one from argos but she had to return it because the controls were too complicated for her to use. the older model was therefore important to her. it is difficult to find this older model for sale these days, which is still in good working condition. ours is in good condition because it hasn't been used much, even though it was manufactured some time ago.

    her mother had the same one but it broke so she wanted an exact replica. the older model also were made to a better quality so even though it is older, it looks better and was made of better materials.

    so i do not think it is buyer remorse.
  15. Avatar
    it was always the buyers intention to loan, and not buy.

    the fireman thing is absolute tosh
  16. Avatar
    It was a scam the moment she asked for a receipt on a second had item bought through an ad. It would be nice if you have pics of the fire. A video of a working item uploaded to the cloud with a date/time stamp is becoming a significantly useful tool in dealing with fraudsters and bad tenants these days.

    If she goes to sue via money claim online (aka small claims), she has to supply documentary evidence, offer mediation/a chance for you to settle and swear on oath she is telling the truth, whole truth etc and do all that BEFORE you get anywhere near a court room. So she has to supply the names, address, call details that bought the fire people to the door, their WRITTEN report condemning the fire etc. All of which you can verify with the fire service.

    I would not be expecting to hear from her again after you tell her you aren't as dumb as to believe her story without written evidence and proof.
  17. Avatar
    nopartylikeansclubparty01/01/2022 17:15

    I would just reply back,the fire was working safely when you personally …I would just reply back,the fire was working safely when you personally inspected it, I can't be held responsible for your actions with the fire from when it left my property, have a good evening.


    I'd say something similar but with two words, the second being 'off'!
  18. Avatar
    Author
    markmc99901/01/2022 17:12

    Sorry this is what I get for speed reading...So, its caught fire? If so …Sorry this is what I get for speed reading...So, its caught fire? If so the fire brigade still leave everything at the scene for investigation and insurance purposes. Electric - same applies, they are usually 'made safe' so that it cannot be used again.


    what do you think her message means as it is ambuguous whether the fire had actually caught fire, but i read it that way.

    nopartylikeansclubparty01/01/2022 17:15

    I would just reply back,the fire was working safely when you personally …I would just reply back,the fire was working safely when you personally inspected it, I can't be held responsible for your actions with the fire from when it left my property, have a good evening.


    she has used the fire for 4 weeks now so it was certainly safe for the last month!!!
    Edited by: "mutley1" 7 h, 17 m ago
  19. Avatar
    mutley101/01/2022 17:24

    what do you think her message means as it is ambuguous whether the fire …what do you think her message means as it is ambuguous whether the fire had actually caught fire, but i read it that way.


    I've read it as they've been in and done a safety check rather than a fire fire.

    Because, if I'm honest, I'm not sure I'd expect the message to be as polite as that and just asking for an £80 refund if it had caused a house fire....
  20. Avatar
    So is the fire/heater on the recall list or not?
  21. Avatar
    I would just tell her it was bought as seen and it was working perfectly when you sold it to her. Or you could tell her if she gets it professionally inspected by an independent appliance repair business, that you will accept a return if it's deemed unsafe in writing. If there's nothing wrong with it, she won't get it examined, and the inspection would cost roughly what she paid anyway
  22. Avatar
    Author
    ccnp01/01/2022 17:20

    It was a scam the moment she asked for a receipt on a second had item …It was a scam the moment she asked for a receipt on a second had item bought through an ad. It would be nice if you have pics of the fire. A video of a working item uploaded to the cloud with a date/time stamp is becoming a significantly useful tool in dealing with fraudsters and bad tenants these days.If she goes to sue via money claim online (aka small claims), she has to supply documentary evidence, offer mediation/a chance for you to settle and swear on oath she is telling the truth, whole truth etc and do all that BEFORE you get anywhere near a court room. So she has to supply the names, address, call details that bought the fire people to the door, their WRITTEN report condemning the fire etc. All of which you can verify with the fire service.I would not be expecting to hear from her again after you tell her you aren't as dumb as to believe her story without written evidence and proof.


    i have the pics of the fire stored on my pc and i still have the gumtree ad. i don't have a video of it working but she would not have bought it if it was broke and not contact me until 4 weeks later.

    she was suspicious to be honest as she smelled like she hasn't had a bath for months, lol. she said she had dogs in the back of the car, so i attributed the smell of the dogs on her rather than her not having had a wash for months

    next time i am asked for a receipt, i will know what to say. i thought a receipt is no different to her communications on gumtree as proof of purchase, so i wasn't concerned when i gave her the receipt, except i was a bit puzzled and did think something was odd.
  23. Avatar
    aLV42601/01/2022 17:10

    There could be another reason - £80 for an old Dimplex fire, when you can …There could be another reason - £80 for an old Dimplex fire, when you can get a new one for £99.99! Buyers remorse perhaps?https://www.very.co.uk/dimplex-mcfstv12e-micro-stove-fire/1600674426.prd?sku=sku24379151&cm_mmc=google-_-PLA+-+Generic-_-Ad+group-_-PRODUCT_GROUP_p66785823285_&utm_campaign=Generic_Electricals+-+Generic+-+SSC&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_term=PRODUCT_GROUP&campaigntype=shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAlMCOBhCZARIsANLid6ZF5LkEnq3JaoVwTMdpxD6-YECk2LkE6hL3sfF0tAL0z61n5TkjOtwaAknvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.dsThe last time I had fun selling on (IIRC) gumtree was some concert tickets (remember when those where a thing!). The guy called round and questioned their authenticity - he paid cash at which point I asked him how he could prove the authenticity of his money. I also pointed out that he had the advantage of knowing where I lived!


    That's fighting talk

    @mutley1 buyer sounds like a run of the mill headache, ignore and say sale is final, it was working when sold as demonstrated. Don't respond back
    Edited by: "Tutanota" 6 h, 55 m ago
  24. Avatar
    I wouldn't even reply to her, forget about it. As for the receipt you're mental even giving her one, I'd of just said are you mad I'm not a bloody shop
    As you've mentioned it was 4 weeks ago and by the sounds the house hadn't burnt down. My dad and brother are fireman, I think the only thing they check in your house is the smoke alarm, he's never mentioned they'll randomly check a heater! I'd of though more an electrician job
  25. Avatar
    Simply ask for a copy of the Fire Brigade report.
    If there is one, then a refund would be a good gesture, if there isn't and the demands stop, then fine, if they don't stop then tell her either you'll contact the Fire Brigade yourself and ask for a copy of the report, then, once recieved, you'll issue a refund or she needs to get a copy of the report and forward it to you.
    The Fire Brigade wouldn't be giving such drastic advice without recording it.
    You can just say you need the report to get your own refund from the shop where you bought it.
  26. Avatar
    Author
    Toon_army01/01/2022 17:52

    I wouldn't even reply to her, forget about it. As for the receipt you're …I wouldn't even reply to her, forget about it. As for the receipt you're mental even giving her one, I'd of just said are you mad I'm not a bloody shop As you've mentioned it was 4 weeks ago and by the sounds the house hadn't burnt down. My dad and brother are fireman, I think the only thing they check in your house is the smoke alarm, he's never mentioned they'll randomly check a heater! I'd of though more an electrician job


    i did feel something was odd and when i spoke to my husband later, i did ask him if i made a mistake in giving her the receipt, but my husband said it was fine. he did wonder why her mother wouldn't trust her and would want to check that she actually paid £80 before refunding her the money, as this was the implication of her request.

    her exact words were "because I am not buying it for myself, but for someone else". i thought maybe she had power of attorney over her mother, and may need to keep records of money spent or if the central heating was insured with british gas and they took far too long to repair the boiler, her mother may be able to claim compensation by asking for the refund of outlay for the fire. so there could be instances, where this may be legitimate i guess.
  27. Avatar
    when was the appliance last PAT? Did it have a label on it saying when it was PAT? Personally,I would never buy or sell a second hand electrical appliance without a recent PAT.
  28. Avatar
    Call her bluff and ask for the report and say you'll get your nephew who's a local fireman to enquire about who issued the warning and what the issues were, once the issuing fireman confirms his concerns you'll then offer a part refund.
    I bet you'll get some bull reply saying something like my mother has lost the report.
    Edited by: "PaulandPam" 6 h, 29 m ago
  29. Avatar
    If British Gas can’t repair a boiler and the old lady was deemed to be vulnerable, they would have left at least one fan heater for her to use.
  30. Avatar
    mutley101/01/2022 18:00

    i did feel something was odd and when i spoke to my husband later, i did …i did feel something was odd and when i spoke to my husband later, i did ask him if i made a mistake in giving her the receipt, but my husband said it was fine. he did wonder why her mother wouldn't trust her and would want to check that she actually paid £80 before refunding her the money, as this was the implication of her request.her exact words were "because I am not buying it for myself, but for someone else". i thought maybe she had power of attorney over her mother, and may need to keep records of money spent or if the central heating was insured with british gas and they took far too long to repair the boiler, her mother may be able to claim compensation by asking for the refund of outlay for the fire. so there could be instances, where this may be legitimate i guess.


    What if there was no mother in the first place. The lady comes around, buys the fire from you, goes out and sells it to buy crack, and then comes back and demands a refund saying that it caused a fire (conveniently the fire brigade wrote the device off), etc.
  31. Avatar
    So much debate over such nothingness, regardless of consequential disaster claims.
    Private sale viewed functional and accepted by buyer as such. End of.

    Already eagerly awaiting next life-changing Mutters thread.
  32. Avatar
    Author
    Haircut_10001/01/2022 18:19

    What if there was no mother in the first place. The lady comes around, …What if there was no mother in the first place. The lady comes around, buys the fire from you, goes out and sells it to buy crack, and then comes back and demands a refund saying that it caused a fire (conveniently the fire brigade wrote the device off), etc.


    hey, i like your thinking! i haven't thought of this. you are right, the elderly mother may been made up as part of the scam. so that i feel sorry for the lady and so will return the money.

    Toptrumpet01/01/2022 18:13

    If British Gas can’t repair a boiler and the old lady was deemed to be v …If British Gas can’t repair a boiler and the old lady was deemed to be vulnerable, they would have left at least one fan heater for her to use.


    i had to wait for british gas to repair a boiler, which took 2 weeks. when i complained, they told me to go and buy some heaters and they would refund me the cost if i send them the receipt, up to £80. i did and they paid me the money but i also got to keep the heaters for future use.

    i have also had experience where they would leave a new heater with you and you can keep it when the boiler has been repaired.
    Edited by: "mutley1" 5 h, 45 m ago
  33. Avatar
    Author
    PaulandPam01/01/2022 18:12

    Call her bluff and ask for the report and say you'll get your nephew who's …Call her bluff and ask for the report and say you'll get your nephew who's a local fireman to enquire about who issued the warning and what the issues were, once the issuing fireman confirms his concerns you'll then offer a part refund.I bet you'll get some bull reply saying something like my mother has lost the report.


    lol. i am not old enough to have a nephew that works as a local fireman! my nephew is 10 she would know immediately that I am BS her.

    she doesn't live locally as she said she had to come from some where else, so i don't know which area she came from.
    Edited by: "mutley1" 5 h, 19 m ago
  34. Avatar
    Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.

    Beyond blocking her number on your phone, you really don't need to do anything.
  35. Avatar
    Author
    OllieSt01/01/2022 19:18

    Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.Beyond blocking her number on …Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.Beyond blocking her number on your phone, you really don't need to do anything.


    i am inclined to say nothing until she escalates this. i am sure she is trying it on. she hasn't called me, only messaged me on gumtree through the ad.

    i have added her number on my phone and put her as a contact so i know it is her that is calling and can choose not to answer.
  36. Avatar
    Author
    tardytortoise01/01/2022 18:09

    when was the appliance last PAT? Did it have a label on it saying when it …when was the appliance last PAT? Did it have a label on it saying when it was PAT? Personally,I would never buy or sell a second hand electrical appliance without a recent PAT.


    no idea. however, if you did buy one, then it is entirely your risk to do so if you bought the item second hand though?
  37. Avatar
    Tell her it wasn’t sold to her mother, it was sold to her so ultimately she is responsible!
  38. Avatar
    "her mother had the same one but it broke so she wanted an exact replica. the older model also were made to a better quality so even though it is older, it looks better and was made of better materials."


    Perhaps she intended to keep yours and send you the old broken one as a return?
  39. Avatar
    Author
    IAmATeaf01/01/2022 19:29

    Tell her it wasn’t sold to her mother, it was sold to her so ultimately s …Tell her it wasn’t sold to her mother, it was sold to her so ultimately she is responsible!


    thanks! that is very true as she indicated that i had sold the appliance to her elderly mother, when in fact, you could argue, she did! as she bought it from me, and then sold it on.
  40. Avatar
    Ignore, nothing more.
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