Seeking Advice : Seller defrauded & I cannot understand how that can be accepted by Ebay/ Paypal

40
Found 30th Apr
Hi Guys,

I bought a laptop, which didnt function correctly from the first day. Below is the communication between myself & the seller. I think it pretty much tells the whole story.

I contacted Ebay who forwarded on to Paypal, who decided the case against me (no reason stated). I cannot understand how this can be.

I am seeking advice because I am very angry that he got away with it so easily & Paypal & Ebay have been less than helpful.

The conversation (Please read from bottom up):
------------------------------------------------------------

just messaging you to let you know that because you have altered the item I am not n a position to the receive the item back

and would like any further correspondence ceased from you from now on
Reply

YOU:
This is disappointing attitude. Please send me the label address. I will contact ebay so they can help us resolve this issue.

williams1992:
the laptop was fully working as per description when sent to you, I can 100% vouch for that

the hdd may have developed a fault later, granted

the laptop itself may have developed a further fault later, possibly (although I haven't personally inspected it so will take your word for it in the interim)

I accept all that

YOU:
You sent payment for the replacement, which is part of the original purchase. If you have any doubts, please do get in touch with Ebay. I am pretty certain what their judgement will be.

Im not asking for the refund for the enclosure, however, the disappointment is that you do not recognise that the machine should have been in working order when received. The two faults were reports were other than the hard drive issue. You appear to be passing the fault back to me, somehow.

I want to reiterate that I can understand your disappointment with this purchase not returning the profits you would have liked, however, this is about customer service & taking responsibility for the wrong description posted. We both have all the communication documented, which clearly showed the efforts I put into this, effort I shouldn't have had to in the first place. Please recognise that.

williams1992:
I have already paid for the ssd, which you agreed to and I have received the other back in return for it, which you agreed to.

Please sell on your surplus ssd on Ebay or other, should fetch you a good price with receipt.

I won'r be paying for your ssd enclosure which you purchased, entirely your decision.

I am happy to reimburse the original laptop price minus the ssd refund.

You could have previously returned the whole machine inc the faulty ssd for a full refund, which didn't happen.

Yes I'm willing to refund the postage cost to get it here.

YOU:
Sorry Dai. That is not acceptable. I am paying :

£64 for the SSD
£6 for the SSD case
Return postage too?
A few days effort (all of which is documented in our conversation here)

For something that was expected to be working as per the laptop description. I fully understand your position & I can understand the frustration & the loss incurred, however, I believe I am being wronged here, as none of it was within my control. And for me to expect the reimbursement for the SSD is perfectly reasonable.

williams1992:
No other recommendations

ssd not needed, thanks

I will refund you original price minus the £55 ssd

so as not to go overboard on the postage I suggest collectplus or ups who can do it really cheaply, still tracked

YOU:
Sorry, I'm not clear on 'any further thoughts about the process?' What do you mean?

I have the box so I can post it to you via Royal Mail on Monday if that suits you. Shall I leave the M2 SSD in as I do not need it, you can reimburse for that along with the postage once you have the system. I can send you the receipt for the SSD.

Also, the Samsung laptop wouldn't suit my needs. Any other recommendations?

Best,

williams1992:
like I say, I'd be willing to do the swap, send it to you upon receiving the current one back and provide you with the tracking details

any further thoughts about the process?

YOU:
Thanks Dai. I am watching it now. To explain the usage, my requirements are primarily development so 8Gb is a minimum & processor is important too, hence I wanted to not go before 2015 i5s. This looks great though, as screen is very important considering I stare at it the whole day.

Any other suggestions considering the above?

Best,

williams1992:
still a great machine

qhd res touch

180 degrees autorotating

this is the most respected online review

gorgeous screen, amazing audio (not exaggerating)

kindly take your time to view this review


YOU:
Would you please send me the specifics. The 4Gb ram doesnt sound much for my needs, otherwise, Im curious. I would like to resolve this asap please.

Thanks Dai.

williams1992:
Hi,

Unfortunately I haven't got a like for like replacement I can give but I do have a superb Samsung ativ book 9 plus, qhd, touch, i5, 256gb ,4gb, an amazing laptop (read the reviews, mobiletech on youtube review etc) from a few years back, one of my all time favorites.

It's up to you of course.

Have a think and let me know.

YOU:
Well, you would know better, having traded selling these machine.

Ideally, I would like a replacement, if thats possible. Otherwise, I would have to return it. You will have to guide with which service you prefer & the process & payment etc.

Thanks.

williams1992:
OK you want to return it.

How would you like to go about doing that?

YOU:
Please see attached.
Alright, enjoy the day. Can we please resolve this today as I really need a machine

williams1992:
I'm off out

will be back later

keep me posted

YOU:
Apologies, I meant boot* is done as per the image I sent. Its doing the chkdsk now

williams1992:
have you done the 4 below

cmd in bootrec.exe /FixMbr
/FixBoot
/ScanOs
/RebuildBcd options?

also in cmd

chkdsk
chkdsk L: /f /r /x
chkdsk c: /r
chkdsk c: /scan /forceofflinefix

YOU:
And here is the disk surface check showing all clear. What commands do your want me to run, can you please send the whole command.

williams1992:
I would defo use chkdsk and bootrec in cmd tho

YOU:
The partitions look just fine. Please see disk 2 in attached image

williams1992:
take the hdd out put it into your enclosure and look at the partitions etc and let me know

YOU:
I downloaded latest Windows 10 is from Microsoft website. It doesn't appear corrupt as it clearly installed just fine & as you saw Windows is viable the first time but something happens & the hard drive become unaccessible. The system says that hard drive not found in the system diagnostics.

williams1992:
which Windows OS are you using? A copy /other?

could there be some corruption in it?

worth a re-installation?

YOU:
Sorry Dai. No its not fine. A reboot loaded windows but it's stuck... Please see the picture & the loading cursor on the windows icon.

williams1992:
will it boot from usb?

have you done a bios reset?

YOU:
Now it's not loading windows at all.

williams1992:
what Bios boot options are you using? Try legacy/no secure boot

let me know

YOU:
It continuously gives this error on bootup

williams1992:
no problem

yes, should be able to. I'd do it after you finished doing updates etc, just in case

regards

YOU:
Thank you Dai. It installed Windows successfully & hopefully the updates will install successfully tomorrow.

I suppose I can enable UEFI boot option & secure boot back on?

Thanks again.

williams1992:
hi

if you enable legacy support and disable secure boot(if enabled) then reboot with usb in and let me know how you get on

cheers

YOU:
Hi Dai. Sorry to contact you again, this machine is killing me with frustration. I finally received the Ssd m2 from ebuyer yesterday. Installed it today. However, the machine just won't accept windows 10 boot able USB as boot drive. I tested the same USB on another system & it is perfectly bootable. Here are the bios settings I've played with.

williams1992:
If you can quickly open a return case on ebay for the item and there we will have the option to issue a partial refund. I think if I do it like this I won't be charged for doing a refund where I will if I do it straight through paypal.
Once you have done it I will reply quickly and get it issued.

thanks

YOU:
Thanks. I have just placed an order for one on ebuyer.

Best,

williams1992:
i'll sort out the refund shortly (just woken up)

if what you said about amazon prices previously stands , I'd go with that option inc warranty

regards

YOU:
Thanks Dai for getting back so quickly. While researching, I came across many people who had similar issues, so it clearly wasn't our fault.

I will accept the £55. Would you please suggest whether I purchase the new M2 SSD from Amazon (it being new & thereby would last longer & have warranty), or the ebay drives are the cheaper alternative for the same.

Thanks,

williams1992:
hi

received the m.2 and it's sadly not looking too good

I thought I had some spare ones but all used so what I can do is refund you the price of a used same capacity ssd on Ebay which is around £55

like the one below for you to purchase (if you want to purchase elsewhere, up to you)

ebay.co.uk/itm…1ig

is that OK with you?

let me know

cheers
Dai

YOU:
Thank you, I posted the item via recorded delivery this morning. The ref. is: GK355529966GB.

Thanks again.

williams1992:
sure

*ADDRESS REMOVED*

cheers

YOU:
Thank you. I will post it tomorrow. Would you please send the address to post to.

Best,

williams1992:
no worries, i'll paypal refund you the postage cost now so you can send it back as agreed

YOU:
Thanks again for getting back to me. I multiple times as per your instructions, however, none works. Attached is the image. It wipes the data very quickly, however, gives the error on delete partition.

Best,

williams1992:
from disk operations section you should try

delete all partitions
then quick partition (just create the biggest partition you can)
then rebuild mbr
then insert ssd in spectre with bootable OS usb to install windows from

if no joy above go back and use 'wipe hard drive' option first then all the above steps again

let me know how you get on

YOU:
Sorry, I think I got too excited. I too have AOMEI installed & unfortunately, its not able to do anything.

I tried the the following options, to no avail:

- Initialise Disk (failed with error 45)
- Delete all partitions (failed with error code 6).

If you have any suggestions, I am willing to try, otherwise, I am happy to post it tomorrow as per your instructions.

Best,

williams1992:
ignore last message for now as just seen this one of yours

what I suggest is this -

download some good free partition software, the one I use is AOMEI partition assistant standard edition which will help you format the drive and partition it correctly inc bootable ready

then it should be up and running

let me know how you get on

YOU:
Hi, sorry, hold it. I just removed the SSD & reinserted & reconnected it to the system, so now I can see something! Please see the image of Disk2. However, its coming as 0.00KB.

I'll update the forums & see what the suggestions are. Please let me know if you have thoughts & suggestions.

Hope we can get it up & running!

Thanks

williams1992:
hi there

thanks for getting in touch

If I may just ask following before embarking on the next step

1. whether another healthy m.2 has been recognized by the m.2 enclosure?
2. whether it was recognized but showed 0mb max capacity?
3. whether you have tried it in more than just from one usb port

thanks

YOU:
HI Dai,

Unfortunately, the M2 SSD is dead. I had the ssd caddy delivered today and just tried it and unfortunately its not detected. As per the comments online, it does appear that it is dead.

Here is the link to questions I posted regarding this issue.

superuser.com/que…t=1

answers.microsoft.com/en-…956

Can we please come to an agreement about this as a new 256gb (cheapest I could find in the range is 240gb) is £60.99 at amazon.
amazon.co.uk/dp/…_it

Best,

williams1992:
Hi,

I think it was opened just to check and inspect. Apologies for any misalignment.

Hope you get on well with the m2 adapter. Got one myself. Useful things.

Let me know in due course how you are getting on.

Cheers,
Dai.

YOU:
Hi, I mean to cause no alarm. Its just that the screws were not perfectly aligned when I saw the back. Also, two of the screw covers holding the battery inside the laptop are broken. Thats not a problem by itself as it still slots into place. I inquired to know why it was previously opened, no other reason for asking.

Yes, I just bought a m2 SSD adapter so I can slot the SSD from laptop in & hopefully format it on my main system and it should hopefully be working again. Probably will take a few days to arrive & then I will work on this again. I truly hope it gets working again as the machine itself is really nice.

Thanks for listening in to this saga.

Best,

williams1992:
hi

am just unsure what exactly you mean when you say system has been previously operated on, which system part are you referring to there?

also was unsure about the dead hard drive comment, simply because it's a non-recognized hard drive does not mean it's a dead hard drive as it can be not recognized for a variety of reasons, e.g partitions have been deleted after reformatting, wrongly reformatting etc

would welcome a little bit more clarity on the above please

thanks

YOU:
Thanks for getting back. After spending yesterday & this morning, and having posted the question on two forums and having a chat with MS customer service, it appears that the hard drive is dead. I finally got hold of a driver & we noticed that the system has been operated on before, would you know why it was opened previously?

Thanks,

williams1992:
hi there,

Sorry to hear about the no boot after updates.
Yes, a fresh reinstall is never a bad thing.
Let me know how you get on. Cheers.

Dai.

YOU:
Thanks for getting back to me. The machine wont boot up anymore since the updates. The strange thing is that the hard drive is often undetected... I have posted question on forum for help and will see what comes up. I may reinstall windows today.

Thanks again

williams1992:
hi there

No, I didn't have any problems with updates.

If you type in 'troubleshoot' into the Cortana search bar bottom left corner by windows icon in taskbar then 'windows update' option and let it troubleshoot windows update issues for you. That should solve it.

let me know

regards

YOU:
Hi Willians1992,

I have been having problems with this system. Would you please let me know if you had any success with Windows updates, especially the recent security updates. The system crashed while installing the updates & now none of the solutions I have tried have worked in restoring it. I will keep trying, wanted to know if you experienced any such problems yourself.

Thanks

williams1992:
Hi

yes they do, see photo 3
thanks for your purchase
will upload tracking info once dispatched

regards

YOU:
Hello, Would you please let me know whether the pen and touch screen work perfectly? Thanks

---------------------------------------------






Apologies for the length of the image. This is the best I could think of.

Thanks.
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40 Comments
Quick question as there are no dates I can see on scanning the saga;

Was this bought from a UK business? If Yes, what date did you receive this laptop?

If less than 30 days and you believe you can satisfy a court that it is not of Satisfactory Quality, you can reject it under the 2015 Consume Rights act. End of. eBay/Paypal come a long way behind UK law.

If you paid by Credit Card, you can hold the Credit Card company equally liabl.
The way I read it well most of it as I got bored. You submitted a snad as requested by the seller (I guess he knew what he was doing here) he offered a partial refund which you accepted. Case closed!! I would not refund you for a enclosure nor reimburse you for a new drive that was your choice, you should have sent it all back and if it was faulty let the seller sort it out. You took a chance the machine wasn't at fault, it may not be it might be you. Best bet now is to take it to a reputable pc shop and get them to check it out and get a written quote and if it's faulty contact your cc company or do an appeal through PayPal showing them the quote.
Edited by: "caverncity" 30th Apr
If you take it that the item was working fully when it was sent to you then a fair end of everything would be for both parties to be as near to how they were before the transaction took place.

Seller should get back faulty SSD and you should sell the new SSD and keep the money. You should send back the laptop and be refunded plus any postage costs. You really shouldn't be refunded the money for the caddy because it was your idea to do that, when really you should have just sent everything back as soon as you found out it wasn't working. Again you shouldn't be payed for taking time to fix the item, that was completely your choice.

So am I right in thinking that at the moment you haven't got any money back?
caverncity2 m ago

The way I read it well most of it as I got bored. You submitted a snad as …The way I read it well most of it as I got bored. You submitted a snad as requested by the seller (I guess he knew what he was doing here) he offered a partial refund which you accepted. Case closed!! I would not refund you for a enclosure not reimburse you for a new drive, you should have sent it all back and if it was faulty let the seller sort it out.


agreed
ccnp1 h, 0 m ago

Quick question as there are no dates I can see on scanning the saga;Was …Quick question as there are no dates I can see on scanning the saga;Was this bought from a UK business? If Yes, what date did you receive this laptop? If less than 30 days and you believe you can satisfy a court that it is not of Satisfactory Quality, you can reject it under the 2015 Consume Rights act. End of. eBay/Paypal come a long way behind UK law.If you paid by Credit Card, you can hold the Credit Card company equally liabl.



Thanks for getting back Ccnp. The conversation history was copy & pasted from Ebay messages. I contacted Ebay again and again over many days & they replied repeatedly that cannot send me the messages with dates & times.

The item was purchased on 30th March 2018. I have raised an appeal with Paypal after their decision.
I, we (seller & myself) presumed that the hard drive was at fault. Im pretty certain that the motherboard has a problem as the new drive is recognised once in a while then not.
You need to see if the seller is a business seller or private individual on eBay. Even though you have missed the 30 days, you still have rights if its a business with regard to repair or refund. And neither ebay nor paypal can override them

WRT messages; Your messages are all stored under 'My ebay', 'Messages' and are date and time stamped. You don't need ebay to send them to you so I don't understand the problem.
ccnp5 m ago

You need to see if the seller is a business seller or private individual …You need to see if the seller is a business seller or private individual on eBay. Even though you have missed the 30 days, you still have rights if its a business with regard to repair or refund. And neither ebay nor paypal can override themWRT messages; Your messages are all stored under 'My ebay', 'Messages' and are date and time stamped. You don't need ebay to send them to you so I don't understand the problem.



Yes, they are stored. However, for the date & time, you would have to copy & paste each message by going into it and building the entire history manually. This above conversation was copied & pasted from a single message. As you can see, it is a lot of messages.

Thanks for the advice & suggestions, I am still trying to communicate with Paypal & resolve it. Many thanks again.
Kayote19 m ago

I, we (seller & myself) presumed that the hard drive was at fault. Im …I, we (seller & myself) presumed that the hard drive was at fault. Im pretty certain that the motherboard has a problem as the new drive is recognised once in a while then not.


Sounds like a bios issue. Try updating the bios.
If I were the seller, regardless of what's happened with the laptop, posting my name, home address and username on a public forum... I think I would be contacting you via some legal channels pretty soon.
cmdr_elito9 m ago

Sounds like a bios issue. Try updating the bios.


Last time I had that on my daughters all in one it was the m2 sata drive not seated fully - felt like it was and screw holding it seemed fine but would start randomly not being seen on post and get worse. Resat it twice until third time I pushed that little harder and it felt it click fully - not seen that on any of my desktop style builds purely the all in one with a laptop style mobo.
Edited by: "Bertz99" 30th Apr
ccnp43 m ago

You need to see if the seller is a business seller or private individual …You need to see if the seller is a business seller or private individual on eBay. Even though you have missed the 30 days, you still have rights if its a business with regard to repair or refund. And neither ebay nor paypal can override themWRT messages; Your messages are all stored under 'My ebay', 'Messages' and are date and time stamped. You don't need ebay to send them to you so I don't understand the problem.


He is a business seller albeit likely an individual - can see him/her on ebay under william1992 and good feedback - focuses mainly on used laptop parts and laptops - 167 items in last 12 months.

However reading that message chain there is an offer on the table of a full refund including postage costs but just not the extra's the buyer chose rather than rejected. I do not read the seller as being unreasonable and attempted to support although if the OP had rejected as soon as received and not tried to resolve, which on a spectre is effectively stripping the laptop to replace the ssd, then it would be clear cut.

If that offer has been withdrawn then it is a case of being unreasonable. However, if still on table then I would suggest the OP takes it and cuts his loses and runs.
Edited by: "Bertz99" 30th Apr
How much did you pay for the item, altogether?
It sounds like the seller, with excellent feedback, tried to be a good seller and worked with you for a couple of weeks. He may have taken steps to protect themselves, yes, with the partial refund. But when he made the offer and then you added some more demands he may have just had enough of the stress and closed this down abruptly.

Not saying your right or he’s right, but there is a possibility it might not be a scammer as such. As a fellow human being he should be looking to sort this out.

I would not have put his name and address (google street view makes me think it’s not a company by the way, just an individual making a bit of extra cash). I also saw a copy of their signature on the Royal Mail tracking fgs
Edited by: "androidavis" 30th Apr
I couldn't read everything as it's way too long for me at the moment since I don't have much time to post but if you have changed any components etc. that is considered alteration and the seller doesn't have to accept a return.

eBay rules. This actually helped me win a case against a buyer who tried to claim against me that the item wasn't as described.

It has to be exactly how it was sent to you. Nothing more or less. If you told him you changed any of the original components then he can use it against you via the alteration route to not take it back.
Edited by: "hearts22" 30th Apr
So sellers signature is on here as well, and mods this this is ok huh.
Thank you mod for removing the address, I should have noticed that. @splatsplatsplat what signature?

Regarding the item, nothing has been changed that wasnt communicated to the seller. Bertz99, I already tried that. However, no such luck.

Thanks all for the feedback.
Edited by: "Kayote" 30th Apr
Open a case via PayPal mate, unlike eBay who only offer a thirty day PayPal u have six months protection. Login to PayPal - click help - then click resolution case on PayPal. This will instantly minus the sellers account with money and then get ur return money through "PayPal returns" Google it,

keep all receipts. Then after a couple of days log back into PayPal and "escalate the case " never go through eBay for returns they take forever and there's always a language barrier
With PayPal they're all English much better service imo, never had a issue, eBay just prolong things
Did you not think it is the sellers responsibility to fix under warranty and returns rules. There is now liability on you for altering the laptop. However, you did this under the sellers advice and they are ultimately liable for giving you bad advice and a faulty laptop from the beginning. I would contact PayPal open a dispute and claim not as described stating faulty laptop and responsible for giving you bad advice which further damaged the components including your SSD. If this doesn’t refund you you have approx 180days to contact your credit card company and claim. MasterCard will pay out on insurance. As for eBay, contact them via online chat and tell them that you are very disappointed with their outright disregard for customer care and will be reporting the incident to action fraud
Edited by: "zcgby03" 1st May
machomansavage5 h, 7 m ago

Open a case via PayPal mate, unlike eBay who only offer a thirty day …Open a case via PayPal mate, unlike eBay who only offer a thirty day PayPal u have six months protection. Login to PayPal - click help - then click resolution case on PayPal. This will instantly minus the sellers account with money and then get ur return money through "PayPal returns" Google it, keep all receipts. Then after a couple of days log back into PayPal and "escalate the case " never go through eBay for returns they take forever and there's always a language barrierWith PayPal they're all English much better service imo, never had a issue, eBay just prolong things


I returned an item last month via PayPal and still not got my refund. PayPal wastes a lot of time giving both parties days to reply. PayPal also takes several days to review a case.
My item was delivered on the 11th of April and I am still waiting for the refund.

They are still reviewing the case after they gave several days to the seller to confirm delivery, which the seller hasn't done as they are not responding to anything. That means I had to wait days for nothing.

Ebay refunds you straight after the tracking says delivered... Takes a couple of weeks at best. PayPal can take 30 days or more.

Returns through eBay are a lot quicker.

Also you can't open a case with PayPal while the case on eBay is still open..
Edited by: "hearts22" 1st May
Was it advertised as 8gb and a better processor than an i5 as you have stated 4gb and an i5 isn't suitable for your needs. If it wasn't, then that can't be a reason for snad
You posted a tracking number which was signed, together with the guys name and address.
splatsplatsplat26 m ago

You posted a tracking number which was signed, together with the guys name …You posted a tracking number which was signed, together with the guys name and address.

Lol i couldnt believe it when i saw it. That must be a data protection act breach or something
OP seems to be in the illusion that the laptop should be returned for full refund, while keeping the new SSD (which seller already gave refund/payment for), plus a £6 cable that OP decided to buy.
If the seller had sent a replacement drive instead of the money, then you would be returning that along with the laptop. Why should you get a full refund for the laptop plus keep a £55 drive that he effectively paid for.

You can either return the laptop (at his cost) without the new SSD and get a refund for the laptop minus the £55 he refunded you. OR
You send the laptop back with the new SSD and he gives a full refund of laptop (again plus return p&p), plus the difference of the drive cost £66 - £55.

I would be happy with the former, as the seller has already offered.


MIDURIX12 h, 20 m ago

a fair end of everything would be for both parties to be as near to how …a fair end of everything would be for both parties to be as near to how they were before the transaction took place


^^Agree with this 100%


This comment from the seller is spot on IMHO

[quote=Seller]"I have already paid for the ssd, which you agreed to and I have received the other back in return for it, which you agreed to.

Please sell on your surplus ssd on Ebay or other, should fetch you a good price with receipt.

I won'r be paying for your ssd enclosure which you purchased, entirely your decision.

I am happy to reimburse the original laptop price minus the ssd refund.

You could have previously returned the whole machine inc the faulty ssd for a full refund, which didn't happen.

Yes I'm willing to refund the postage cost to get it here."[/quote]
hearts226 h, 23 m ago

I returned an item last month via PayPal and still not got my refund. …I returned an item last month via PayPal and still not got my refund. PayPal wastes a lot of time giving both parties days to reply. PayPal also takes several days to review a case.My item was delivered on the 11th of April and I am still waiting for the refund.They are still reviewing the case after they gave several days to the seller to confirm delivery, which the seller hasn't done as they are not responding to anything. That means I had to wait days for nothing. Ebay refunds you straight after the tracking says delivered... Takes a couple of weeks at best. PayPal can take 30 days or more. Returns through eBay are a lot quicker. Also you can't open a case with PayPal while the case on eBay is still open..


No what I'm saying is, is you'd opened the case with Paypal instead you'd of had your money now guaranteed.





In Paypal you'll see a "escalate to Paypal" providing you've got a open case. When PayPal asks you click on "display old layout" something along those lines. Find the case that's opened and when inside the case you'll see that "escalate to PayPal" hit that

I've always gone back to PayPal whenever I've had problems as eBay language barrier and other things are awful. As for your comment on "one eBay seen item has been signed for they refund you" PayPal also do this. I've had to close many of eBay cases on the past just so PayPal could step in and never had a problem. PayPal also refund postage too unlike the loops u jump through with eBay
Edited by: "machomansavage" 1st May
I know hindsight is a wonderful thing and going back it would be far easier to reject the goods as soon as the fault rather than trying to resolve, regardless of good intentions it muddies the waters.

However, if you could get back to the offer of a refund minus the £55 already given and the seller arranging collection - would that now be agreeable to you? or do you still think he should be refunding you for you time and buying an SSD of you? (I disagree that you had no control as you state in your chat but in your defence you presented to the seller before doing so - so whilst led by you he could have objected)
splatsplatsplat3 h, 29 m ago

OP seems to be in the illusion that the laptop should be returned for full …OP seems to be in the illusion that the laptop should be returned for full refund, while keeping the new SSD (which seller already gave refund/payment for), plus a £6 cable that OP decided to buy.If the seller had sent a replacement drive instead of the money, then you would be returning that along with the laptop. Why should you get a full refund for the laptop plus keep a £55 drive that he effectively paid for.You can either return the laptop (at his cost) without the new SSD and get a refund for the laptop minus the £55 he refunded you. ORYou send the laptop back with the new SSD and he gives a full refund of laptop (again plus return p&p), plus the difference of the drive cost £66 - £55.I would be happy with the former, as the seller has already offered.^^Agree with this 100%This comment from the seller is spot on IMHO[quote=Seller]"I have already paid for the ssd, which you agreed to and I have received the other back in return for it, which you agreed to.Please sell on your surplus ssd on Ebay or other, should fetch you a good price with receipt.I won'r be paying for your ssd enclosure which you purchased, entirely your decision.I am happy to reimburse the original laptop price minus the ssd refund.You could have previously returned the whole machine inc the faulty ssd for a full refund, which didn't happen.Yes I'm willing to refund the postage cost to get it here."[/quote]


I must have missed some of those points, thanks for chopping it a bit. In that case I side completely with the seller. OP get a grip.
Hi Kayote, why not go back to the seller saying you have discussed this with others and found that you were mistakenly unrealistic and willing to put your hands up to that. Say that you really would like to have this dealt with once and for all and fully agree with their offer. The seller listened to you and was helpful numerous times for 2 weeks and obviously wants to draw a line under this. But you can give it one last try - he or she may see it is the right thing to do.

To recap this was their final offer to you - in the circumstances would you accept it?:

SELLER: I have already paid for the ssd, which you agreed to and I have received the other back in return for it, which you agreed to.

Please sell on your surplus ssd on Ebay or other, should fetch you a good price with receipt.

I won’r be paying for your ssd enclosure which you purchased, entirely your decision.

I am happy to reimburse the original laptop price minus the ssd refund.

You could have previously returned the whole machine inc the faulty ssd for a full refund, which didn’t happen.

Yes I’m willing to refund the postage cost to get it here.”
machomansavage10 h, 12 m ago

No what I'm saying is, is you'd opened the case with Paypal instead you'd …No what I'm saying is, is you'd opened the case with Paypal instead you'd of had your money now guaranteed. In Paypal you'll see a "escalate to Paypal" providing you've got a open case. When PayPal asks you click on "display old layout" something along those lines. Find the case that's opened and when inside the case you'll see that "escalate to PayPal" hit that I've always gone back to PayPal whenever I've had problems as eBay language barrier and other things are awful. As for your comment on "one eBay seen item has been signed for they refund you" PayPal also do this. I've had to close many of eBay cases on the past just so PayPal could step in and never had a problem. PayPal also refund postage too unlike the loops u jump through with eBay


I have opened the case with Paypal. It was an item bought on a Chinese website. Nothing to do with eBay.

Paypal takes forever. The item went back to the seller on the 11th of April (according to tracking I submitted) and I am still waiting for Paypal to verify the item has been delivered. They gave the seller several days to say they have received it and the seller never replied. A lot of faff.

I opened the dispute on the 9th of March... last update is "We'll contact you with any developments or if we require additional information from you by 11 May 2018"... and the item was returned ages ago lol. They have already asked me proof of the return address I used so they can't have anything else to ask for.

I never had to wait all this time with eBay. eBay refunds you straight after the tracking updates.

Paypal are slower than eBay. Guaranteed. Don't know why you went on about Paypal being quicker in the other post.

You have to close the case on eBay first as you cannot simultaneously have a case open with eBay and Paypal. This was important to remark...

You never pay for postage on eBay to return an item that's faulty. The seller is charged for the return when an item is returned because it isn't as described and this goes for private sellers too! You just need to open a return request and eBay will send a prepaid label.

Also, if you have to return an item because it's faulty, eBay sends a prepaid label... with Paypal you have to fork out for the postage and make sure it isn't above £15 or you'll be out of pocket and then claim for a refund on the return postage that only goes up to £15 max.
Edited by: "hearts22" 1st May
OP, if the laptop wasn't working you should have just sent it back as it was. Your decision to buy a new SSD etc. to see if that fixed the issue.

The seller only has to refund the original purchase.

You would have won easily as seller has no way of proving it was working fine. Instead you gave them the chance tor refuse the return successfully using the fact you altered the laptop.

If the seller is still willing to refund you, just take the refund minus the cost of your SSD and additional purchases as they are your sole responsibility.
hearts2219 m ago

I have opened the case with Paypal. It was an item bought on a Chinese …I have opened the case with Paypal. It was an item bought on a Chinese website. Nothing to do with eBay.Paypal takes forever. The item went back to the seller on the 11th of April (according to tracking I submitted) and I am still waiting for Paypal to verify the item has been delivered. They gave the seller several days to say they have received it and the seller never replied. A lot of faff. I opened the dispute on the 9th of March... last update is "We'll contact you with any developments or if we require additional information from you by 11 May 2018"... and the item was returned ages ago lol. They have already asked me proof of the return address I used so they can't have anything else to ask for. I never had to wait all this time with eBay. eBay refunds you straight after the tracking updates. Paypal are slower than eBay. Guaranteed. Don't know why you went on about Paypal being quicker in the other post. You have to close the case on eBay first as you cannot simultaneously have a case open with eBay and Paypal. This was important to remark...You never pay for postage on eBay to return an item that's faulty. The seller is charged for the return when an item is returned because it isn't as described and this goes for private sellers too! You just need to open a return request and eBay will send a prepaid label. Also, if you have to return an item because it's faulty, eBay sends a prepaid label... with Paypal you have to fork out for the postage and make sure it isn't above £15 or you'll be out of pocket and then claim for a refund on the return postage that only goes up to £15 max.


Only trying to help- ring paypal en
hearts2231 m ago

I have opened the case with Paypal. It was an item bought on a Chinese …I have opened the case with Paypal. It was an item bought on a Chinese website. Nothing to do with eBay.Paypal takes forever. The item went back to the seller on the 11th of April (according to tracking I submitted) and I am still waiting for Paypal to verify the item has been delivered. They gave the seller several days to say they have received it and the seller never replied. A lot of faff. I opened the dispute on the 9th of March... last update is "We'll contact you with any developments or if we require additional information from you by 11 May 2018"... and the item was returned ages ago lol. They have already asked me proof of the return address I used so they can't have anything else to ask for. I never had to wait all this time with eBay. eBay refunds you straight after the tracking updates. Paypal are slower than eBay. Guaranteed. Don't know why you went on about Paypal being quicker in the other post. You have to close the case on eBay first as you cannot simultaneously have a case open with eBay and Paypal. This was important to remark...You never pay for postage on eBay to return an item that's faulty. The seller is charged for the return when an item is returned because it isn't as described and this goes for private sellers too! You just need to open a return request and eBay will send a prepaid label. Also, if you have to return an item because it's faulty, eBay sends a prepaid label... with Paypal you have to fork out for the postage and make sure it isn't above £15 or you'll be out of pocket and then claim for a refund on the return postage that only goes up to £15 max.


Yes i know u can't have two cases open i already agreed with that. And im my experience paypal are far faster and all English call centres as oppose to ebay where they're all off shore.

Ebay is a nightmare tp deal with. Of course this is just your opinion and i respect that. Also there's no way to make the case close faster with ebay. Where as if u have the case open with paypal u can esculate it after 10 days and gets the ball moving. Also when i see seller has signed i ring payoal speak to claims and theyve always refunded me there and then on the phone
Edited by: "machomansavage" 1st May
Thanks everyone. While I disagree with @splatsplatsplat , rest of the comment I can understand. The machine (motherboard) was faulty from the very start, the hard drive replacement just validated that. My justification is that I really liked the laptop and thought that the hard drive was faulty & replacing it (which is no big deal for developers like me) would solve it and we both will be on our merry ways. However, the fundamental mistake I made was that I did not get his approval before opening the machine. Had I done that, I would have been refunded for the whole thing, including the hard drive.

Its clear that the seller was hoping that I would somehow choose the inferior machine he offered as replacement & then once I requested the hard drive being sent with the machine, he decided to throw the morals out the window & take the stage left.

Karma, times a thousand, will catch up with him soon enough. And if I lose, this is an expensive lesson for me.

Thanks again.
machomansavage1st May

Yes i know u can't have two cases open i already agreed with that. And im …Yes i know u can't have two cases open i already agreed with that. And im my experience paypal are far faster and all English call centres as oppose to ebay where they're all off shore. Ebay is a nightmare tp deal with. Of course this is just your opinion and i respect that. Also there's no way to make the case close faster with ebay. Where as if u have the case open with paypal u can esculate it after 10 days and gets the ball moving. Also when i see seller has signed i ring payoal speak to claims and theyve always refunded me there and then on the phone



Yes, I have raised a review with Paypal, with this whole communication as proof that he was willing to accept the machine till the Paypal initial decision.
Wishing you the best of luck Kayote.
thank you Androidavis, appreciate the kind words.
And yet you still have the sellers signature displayed on a public forum. I asked the mods to remove his address which they (for your own benefit) did. Will report again to remove the tracking number with signature as you seem so unwilling to do it yourself.

It would be a real shame if the seller found out about this thread. If only we knew his username, oh wait.
splatsplatsplat48 m ago

And yet you still have the sellers signature displayed on a public forum. …And yet you still have the sellers signature displayed on a public forum. I asked the mods to remove his address which they (for your own benefit) did. Will report again to remove the tracking number with signature as you seem so unwilling to do it yourself.It would be a real shame if the seller found out about this thread. If only we knew his username, oh wait.


Seeing as this information is all on display, can we also take "defrauded" out of the thread title, too, because clearly this isn't the case.
splatsplatsplat3rd May

And yet you still have the sellers signature displayed on a public forum. …And yet you still have the sellers signature displayed on a public forum. I asked the mods to remove his address which they (for your own benefit) did. Will report again to remove the tracking number with signature as you seem so unwilling to do it yourself.It would be a real shame if the seller found out about this thread. If only we knew his username, oh wait.


I reported the tracking number issue and tehy said they had dealt with it!!
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