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****Shocking Story**** Pensioners Killed in Arson Revenge attack by yobs

Found 2nd Mar 2010
Terrible story,hope the yobs are brought to justice and are given long sentences

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68 Comments

Evil. Little. *******

Mod & Ed

They returned a day later and set fire to another scooter on the same complex, I don't usually advocate capital punishment, but crumbs perhaps it's the only way to deal with these evil yobs

Original Poster

wishihadadonkey;7994416

They returned a day later and set fire to another scooter on the same … They returned a day later and set fire to another scooter on the same complex, I don't usually advocate capital punishment, but crumbs perhaps it's the only way to deal with these evil yobs



This,politicians need to get to grips with this as its what most decent people really want

Banned

boothy;7994452

[/U][/B]This,politicians need to get to grips with this as its what most … [/U][/B]This,politicians need to get to grips with this as its what most decent people really want



Unfair on decent people who A) know the law and B) recognise capital punishment is ineffective.

The key is to sort out the root of these problems, rather than dealing with the aftermath.

boothy;7994452

[/U][/B]This,politicians need to get to grips with this as its what most … [/U][/B]This,politicians need to get to grips with this as its what most decent people really want



Problem is, in this case the scum involved would only get a jail sentence because they could argue in court that the killings weren't meant and they only meant to give them a fright. Not saying it's right, but that's what would happen....

FilthAndFurry;7994466

Unfair on decent people who A) know the law and B) recognise capital … Unfair on decent people who A) know the law and B) recognise capital punishment is ineffective.The key is to sort out the root of these problems, rather than dealing with the aftermath.



But what is the root of the problem in cases like this? It's not as simple as you make it out to be....

Original Poster

civms47;7994469

Problem is, in this case the scum involved would only get a jail sentence … Problem is, in this case the scum involved would only get a jail sentence because they could argue in court that the killings weren't meant and they only meant to give them a fright. Not saying it's right, but that's what would happen....



Agree,its just the whole anti-social behaviour thing really gets my goat,particularly where vulnerable people are affected

right,off to work,will check back later

Banned

civms47;7994469

But what is the root of the problem in cases like this? It's not as … But what is the root of the problem in cases like this? It's not as simple as you make it out to be....



I didn't make it out to be simple.:?

In fact, it'll be very hard and long-term to rectify. The easy/sadist/uninformed answer is just to say 'hang em', and when it happens again to spout the same....and then next time....and then next time.

Capital punishment is not inefeffective,
No one executed has ever reoffended :thumbsup:

tonyg1962;7994509

Capital punishment is not inefeffective,No one executed has ever … Capital punishment is not inefeffective,No one executed has ever reoffended :thumbsup:



If that was the only aim, then you'd be correct.
As it's not, you're incorrect.

thesaint;7994547

If that was the only aim, then you'd be correct.As it's not, you're … If that was the only aim, then you'd be correct.As it's not, you're incorrect.



Tel that to someone whos family member has been killed by a murderer on licicence.

Banned

tonyg1962;7994509

Capital punishment is not inefeffective,No one executed has ever … Capital punishment is not inefeffective,No one executed has ever reoffended :thumbsup:



If I dropped toothpicks on the floor, would you know instantaneously how many there were?

Banned

Could someone point me in the direction of the shocking story bit of this? I can't see it at all.

tonyg1962;7994577

Tel that to someone whos family member has been killed by a murderer on … Tel that to someone whos family member has been killed by a murderer on licicence.



I have. You are still incorrect.

This thread will largely be inhabited by pointless "We should hang them" comments which will NEVER happen.

If the same people did something constructive about the situation, then things may change.

FilthAndFurry;7994487

I didn't make it out to be simple.:?In fact, it'll be very hard and … I didn't make it out to be simple.:?In fact, it'll be very hard and long-term to rectify. The easy/sadist/uninformed answer is just to say 'hang em', and when it happens again to spout the same....and then next time....and then next time.



Fair enough, simple was probably the wrong choice of word. The problem is, the people who are at the root of problems like this don't want help, and in many cases it will be near impossible to affect change.

thesaint;7994651

I have. You are still incorrect.This thread will largely be inhabited by … I have. You are still incorrect.This thread will largely be inhabited by pointless "We should hang them" comments which will NEVER happen. If the same people did something constructive about the situation, then things may change.



It probably will never happen, but then again not much else will happen either.

And the last sentence is probably the most ridiculous I've heard for a while, what could people on a shopping forum possibly do that's constructive enough to change "things"??? :thumbsup:

Banned

civms47;7994749

Fair enough, simple was probably the wrong choice of word. The problem … Fair enough, simple was probably the wrong choice of word. The problem is, the people who are at the root of problems like this don't want help, and in many cases it will be near impossible to affect change.It probably will never happen, but then again not much else will happen either.And the last sentence is probably the most ridiculous I've heard for a while, what could people on a shopping forum possibly do that's constructive enough to change "things"??? :thumbsup:



You could become an MP and try to get laws changed. You could become a judge and pass longer sentences. You could organise protests, petitions etc and present them to the PM.
There are plently of cases where public opinion have either changed sentences or even the law in some cases (both wrong IMO, but shows it can be done).

FilthAndFurry;7994466

Unfair on decent people who A) know the law and B) recognise capital … Unfair on decent people who A) know the law and B) recognise capital punishment is ineffective



Doesn't matter how effective it is, it is justice for the families, life for a life, they robbed these people of their lives, they should pay with their own, if that isn't enough of a deterrent, then nothing is.

Banned

Some people are evil unfortunately.

I think they should be hanged so we no longer have to see their evil faces and to save us a bundle in taxes.

colinsunderland;7994871

You could become an MP and try to get laws changed. You could become a … You could become an MP and try to get laws changed. You could become a judge and pass longer sentences. You could organise protests, petitions etc and present them to the PM. There are plently of cases where public opinion have either changed sentences or even the law in some cases (both wrong IMO, but shows it can be done).



Sorry, I should have said realistically..... :whistling:

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995028

Doesn't matter how effective it is, it is justice for the families, life … Doesn't matter how effective it is, it is justice for the families, life for a life, they robbed these people of their lives, they should pay with their own, if that isn't enough of a deterrent, then nothing is.



Sounds like Sharia law is for you.

Banned

civms47;7995289

Sorry, I should have said realistically..... :whistling:



how is it not realistic?

jayjayuk1234:
Doesn't matter how effective it is, it is justice for the families, life for a life, they robbed these people of their lives, they should pay with their own, if that isn't enough of a deterrent, then nothing is.
Sounds like Sharia law is for you.

FilthAndFurry;7995342

Sounds like Sharia law is for you.



That can be biblical 'EYE FOR AN EYE'

tonyg1962;7994577

Tel that to someone whos family member has been killed by a murderer on … Tel that to someone whos family member has been killed by a murderer on licicence.



Two members of my family have been murdered (separate incidents) - still don't advocate capital punishment in the slightest :? saying that, it doesn't mean my opinion carries any more weight on the matter. Never understood people who roll out the old chestnut of "ask someone who is emotionally affected". Chances are someone in that position wants revenge, not justice. Baying for blood and a knee jerk reaction solves little... blood for blood is not a deterrent, just look at America's murder rates in states enforcing capital punishment. A murderer re-offending on license is not a failure of our justice system, it is a failure to implement it.

colinsunderland;7995386

how is it not realistic?



Erm, because I can't see anyone on this forum running to be an MP, or a judge, can you???

bishibashi;7995432

blood for blood is not a deterrent,



Then nothing is...... so let's all give up and go home yeah? :roll:

Or, are you going to suggest that these animals, who supposedly don't fear death enough to deter them, will be afraid of something else? maybe we shall force them to do 10000000 lines?

or are you suggesting that there is some other magical means to eliminate this behaviour?

And as i said, who cares about it being an effective deterrent, dogs are put down if they kill, or any other animal, why is it different if it is another human, they don't deserve to live imo

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995473

Then nothing is...... so let's all give up and go home yeah? :roll:



Most people are deterred by the thought of losing things like their jobs, their futures etc.

But if people don't have that then the death penalty is hardly any more of a deterrent.

Banned

civms47;7995435

Erm, because I can't see anyone on this forum running to be an MP, or a … Erm, because I can't see anyone on this forum running to be an MP, or a judge, can you???



Why not? There are people on here doing law degrees, people who already have law degrees, and thats just out of the ones who post - there are thousands of members here, how do you know none of them will ever become a judge?
Why don't you become one?

civms47;7995289

Sorry, I should have said realistically..... :whistling:



Have you ever visited your local councillor to express your views, or is that beyond your reach too?

FilthAndFurry;7995489

Most people are deterred by the thought of losing things like their jobs, … Most people are deterred by the thought of losing things like their jobs, their futures etc.But if people don't have that then the death penalty is hardly any more of a deterrent.



No idea where you base your facts...... however if we were to entertain this notion

in which case, there is also no point trying to rehabilitate them either....

FilthAndFurry;7994581

If I dropped toothpicks on the floor, would you know instantaneously how … If I dropped toothpicks on the floor, would you know instantaneously how many there were?



86 86 86

86 86


86


86

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995607

No idea where you base your facts...... however if we were to entertain … No idea where you base your facts...... however if we were to entertain this notionin which case, there is also no point trying to rehabilitate them either....



Whereas you base your capital punishment facts on what?

FilthAndFurry;7995634

Whereas you base your capital punishment facts on what?



I am stating my opinion on it, i haven't quoted numbers, or heresay facts,

in contrast you are telling me that for 'Most people' death isn't any more of a deterrent than having no job or future.

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995661

I am stating my opinion on it, i haven't quoted numbers, or heresay … I am stating my opinion on it, i haven't quoted numbers, or heresay facts, in contrast you are telling me that for 'Most people' death isn't a deterrent...



Based on the startling crime figures in places such as American states that do have it as a 'deterrent' and the numerous studies that say it isn't.

Oh wait, just noticed your avatar:roll:

FilthAndFurry;7995669

Based on the startling crime figures in places such as American states … Based on the startling crime figures in places such as American states that do have it as a 'deterrent' and the numerous studies that say it isn't.Oh wait, just noticed your avatar:roll:



This isn't america..

and what does my avatar have to do with anything? shall i change it to a picture of a cow? perhaps my point will then be valid?

Besides, can you prove that the crime figures would have been more had the death penalty NOT been in place during those periods? no

I thought we were having a polite debate, and because i disagree with your liberal views, you comment on my avatar in a hissy fit and back out??

It's this wishy washy liberal way of thinking, that has this country in the mess it is at the moment.

mooooooooooooooooooooo ;-)

jayjayuk1234;7995473

Then nothing is...... so let's all give up and go home yeah? :roll:Or, … Then nothing is...... so let's all give up and go home yeah? :roll:Or, are you going to suggest that these animals, who supposedly don't fear death enough to deter them, will be afraid of something else? maybe we shall force them to do 10000000 lines? or are you suggesting that there is some other magical means to eliminate this behaviour?And as i said, who cares about it being an effective deterrent, dogs are put down if they kill, or any other animal, why is it different if it is another human, they don't deserve to live imo



Humans in a developed society are separated from animals by law :roll: those convicted of crime aren't animals they are people - some make mistakes, some are malicious, some are innocent.

There are plenty more deterrents than ending someone's life - currently we take their freedom. As for the brilliant "prison is a holiday camp" argument, I've yet to meet somebody say that who has actually spent serious time in one. Death is not a deterrent as murder is rarely a calculated crime - people who kill don't often consider the consequences at the time. No civilised society should advocate killing of any kind; hence why it was abolished in the UK and none have taken place in almost 50 years. It wasn't a decision made on a whim, it was made based on the fact that it was ineffective at stamping out crime and an irreversible finality. It wasn't a deterrent.

Introducing capital punishment doesn't reduce crime. Why increase bloodshed? What does killing the perpetrator actually achieve - simply vengeance to make yourself feel better. Of course they cannot re-offend by default, but our current system deals with that effectively. I'm not suggesting any magical means that will eliminate such behaviour, but capital punishment is a very poor solution. As Filth has suggested, the key is to stop crime occurring in the first place through preventative measures - what they are is a million dollar question...

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995676

This isn't america..and what does my avatar have to do with anything? … This isn't america..and what does my avatar have to do with anything? shall i change it to a picture of a cow? perhaps my point will then be valid?Besides, can you prove that the crime figures would have been more had the death penalty NOT been in place during those periods? noI thought we were having a polite debate, and because i disagree with your liberal views, you comment on my avatar and back out??It's this wishy washy liberal way of thinking, that has this country in the mess it is at the moment.



Most murders are done in the heat of the moment, therefore any punishment isn't a deterrant.

When the death penatly was still being used in the UK there were still murders, there were also innocent people put to death. While I believe life should mean life for murder, until there is a 100% certain way of deciding guilt then I don't think the death penalty should be brought back.

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995676

This isn't america..and what does my avatar have to do with anything? … This isn't america..and what does my avatar have to do with anything? shall i change it to a picture of a cow? perhaps my point will then be valid?Besides, can you prove that the crime figures would have been more had the death penalty NOT been in place during those periods? noI thought we were having a polite debate, and because i disagree with your liberal views, you comment on my avatar in a hissy fit and back out??It's this wishy washy liberal way of thinking, that has this country in the mess it is at the moment.mooooooooooooooooooooo



America is the closest example we can transpose to a UK debate because of the shared cultural heritage we have. It isn't perfect but it's not bad.

The comment about your avatar was a joke - don't let it get to you.

And I agree, we have been far to liberal in this country in regards to certain things. But the death penalty is stupid because justice is fallible.

jayjayuk1234;7995676

This isn't america..


What does this mean in context to the arguments being put forward?

Plum;7995785

What does this mean in context to the arguments being put forward?



It means that america is america, it has 101 other problems which could potentially contribute to their crime rates, the second amendment is possibly one of them..

bishibashi;7995762

Humans in a developed society are separated from animals by law :roll: … Humans in a developed society are separated from animals by law :roll: those convicted of crime aren't animals they are people -



Please define 'Human'

FilthAndFurry;7995784

The comment about your avatar was a joke - don't let it get to you.



It certainly didn't get to me, just confused as to how it beared any relevance, in fact, it was the 1st image i found when i signed up lol

colinsunderland;7995780

When the death penatly was still being used in the UK there were still … When the death penatly was still being used in the UK there were still murders.



Not the best argument there colin, i mean, noone is suggesting it will wipe out murder completely, but you have to appreciate also that people in the days you speak of, who were clever enough - ( or at least maybe they thought they were clever enough ), could evade being caught, as there were no DNA profiling and other forensics back then, things are a little different now.

The way i see it, we tried the liberal approach, it's time to try something else.

Banned

jayjayuk1234;7995812

Please define 'Human'



Please don't - it's a philosophical debate that's lasted thousands of years:roll:

Sorry, commenting is no longer available on this discussion.

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