Should I report Dell to trading standards

Found 8th Dec 2016

I successfully ordered the laptop on Black Friday reduced from £349 to £199.

The full order confirmation came through and payment was take. So far the eta dates have moved 4 times so I called to have a moan.
They advise that they want to cancel my order and re book it but the price will go back to £349. Surely this is breach of contract ?

They made an offer of sale, I accepted and made full payment.
They have failed to deliver goods that they have in stock and now want to change the terms of our binding agreement ?

Lovely company.

Anyone else hit by these crooks or have thoughts here ?

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54 Comments

8th Dec 2016

No contract was formed.

Original Poster

8th Dec 2016

How can you say that. They have given me an full order confirmation and taken full payment (which is effectively consideration) they have not provided paid for goods ?

8th Dec 2016

Just buy a different laptop

8th Dec 2016

They will have their arsed covered and you would have to spend money to try and win this not worth the hassle easier to try and find other bargain

Edited by: "Kmcmahail" 8th Dec 2016

8th Dec 2016

Citizens advice might should help
citizensadvice.org.uk/con…ed/

8th Dec 2016

Goldstink
How can you say that. They have given me an full order confirmation and … How can you say that. They have given me an full order confirmation and taken full payment (which is effectively consideration) they have not provided paid for goods ?

Until they have dispatched the item they can cancel and refund you at any time. Happens a lot when a company has a price glitch

8th Dec 2016

Goldstink
How can you say that. They have given me an full order confirmation and … How can you say that. They have given me an full order confirmation and taken full payment (which is effectively consideration) they have not provided paid for goods ?

I can say it because it's correct. A full order confirmation and taking of payment almost never constitute the formation of an contract. Read the Dell T&Cs.

8th Dec 2016

ceres
No contract was formed.

If the money was actually taken & they are actually saying refund then there IS a contract in place

8th Dec 2016

FreeDeal
Until they have dispatched the item they can cancel and refund you at any … Until they have dispatched the item they can cancel and refund you at any time. Happens a lot when a company has a price glitch

Not if they have actually taken the money

8th Dec 2016

i personally would email the ceo from ceoemail dot com and also email a complaint with the ombudsman, worth a punt

8th Dec 2016

sorry you really don't have a complaint here.

8th Dec 2016

I'd kick up a fuss for sure. Their thanksgiving day 'deals' were the biggest fiasco in recent times, a bunch of sheisters.

8th Dec 2016

thecoolguy
sorry you really don't have a complaint here.

Didn't you read the opening post? Op just needs to do what some people have advised above.

8th Dec 2016

ceres
No contract was formed.

Dell is pretty old school and it's not when dispatched like many other companies.

2.1 You may place an order for Product(s) and/or Services directly with Dell either online or by telephone. The placing of an order by you represents your offer to buy subject to these Consumer Terms. Please note that the Contract between you and Dell is formed only when Dell accepts your order by issuing you with an Order Confirmation in writing.

However they cover themselves with.

2.4 If Dell is unable to fulfil your order, Dell will notify you, and any payment received by Dell will be promptly returned.

So OP you can play the waiting game or get your money back.

8th Dec 2016

ceres
I can say it because it's correct. A full order confirmation and taking … I can say it because it's correct. A full order confirmation and taking of payment almost never constitute the formation of an contract. Read the Dell T&Cs.

^ correct, when payment is taken they get away with it by saying it's being 'held' and not accepted until despatch.

8th Dec 2016

Dell have made acceptance to the contract terms that you have proposed by taking payment, they should honor the sale...however did it state anywhere the lead time? if not then they are not in breach as they could still deliver

8th Dec 2016

cache
i personally would email the ceo from ceoemail dot com and also email a … i personally would email the ceo from ceoemail dot com and also email a complaint with the ombudsman, worth a punt

I've tried that. A complete waste of time. Dell CS is the worst, they all ALWAYS side with the what you've already been told and will not budge. The exec CS is just as bad.
I tried for months with them, and this was for an Alienware laptop well over a grand.

Cut your losses and move on, Dell aren't worth it.

Banned

8th Dec 2016

depends highly on dells terms as most orders are not agreed until shipped, if they take the money or not

8th Dec 2016

You do have a case. You should contact trading standards who may advise you to take out a private claim (small claims court) against Dell.

8th Dec 2016

ypu have a case but is it worth the messing around

8th Dec 2016

No case at all in my opinion.

Original Poster

8th Dec 2016

Thanks guys you have been very supportive.

The worst thing is that the "help desk" operator said that they would cancel my order (generating a refund) and then re-book the order but could not guarantee the new price so I might, without consent see a new bill for £349.

I naturally told them that at no point had I asked them to cancel the order due to delay in production OR that they could re-book my order at a price of their choice.

Already filling out my form to citizens advice re trading standards.

For the sake of £100 or so they should just send me an equivalent or better laptop as a good will gesture from a multi million pound company.

Shambles

8th Dec 2016

I think a lot of people are missing the point, and getting their lines blurred between what is 'Legal' and what is 'Moral' as is often the case on these and other online forums.

You are entitled to your money back, from a legal perspective that's it, until the device arrives at your location, the contract is not formed and can be cancelled at any time (this is my understanding of this kind of purchase).

Anything above a refund is up to Dell. They could offer you an alternative, they could offer you an alternative at a different price, but it would be up to you to accept or decline that negotiation (You are well within your rights to cancel or decline if they increase the price).

Morally though, it is frustrating as I have been in the same position before, some companies are better at handling this kind of issue than others and I think if they had admitted an error and offered you a more reasonable alternative etc then this thread probably wouldn't exist - but its up to them at the end of the day.

But ultimately you get your money back and you move on.

Source: Not a lawyer.

Original Poster

8th Dec 2016

Agreed Daftfool666.

The frustration is, although I can afford to pay my card off, and not pay interest on the bill, this is there fault not mine. They have such a low customer care policy they couldn't give a crap.

They have showed no ability in dealing with my query, no consideration to the timing, re Xmas etc, and havnt even offered a straight refund yet. If this goes over 30 days the rules change a bit.

This may make you laugh. On the general website my order now shows a 6.5 foot USB cable that was delivered in 2005 ?

As it happens I work for a large international London company and ironically they are in the midst of changing PC's with Dell as an option. Not the best advert to someone that has a say in company policy. ha ha
They assume we are all idiots who will let them away with murder so the irony is in skinflinting me for a £199 pc deal for my kid they will cost themselves many thousands and I doubt I'm alone so no doubt this will lead to record consumer complaints for a poorly run company, false advertising etc etc etc.

For me its a case of get your money back and blacklist them to anyone that ever considers buying a PC, laptop etc.on reference from Dell. For every person that buys elsewhere and costs Dell money its a job well done.

Thanks for listening team. Therapy complete !
Fantastic PR stunt Black Friday at Dell turned out to be.

8th Dec 2016

Just wait it out or ask Dell when you should expect the laptop by. If that date passes then ring up and complain.

Also get everything in writing from them as proof.

8th Dec 2016

If you paid for it on a credit card you may be able to use the credit card companies legal team to fight your corner (it is them that have paid for the goods at this point).

8th Dec 2016

There is no contract formed at all.

If you're that bothered then make a complaint, that is reasonable, trading standards or small claims courts can't do anything, It is a waste of time.

8th Dec 2016

May be worth having a read of this - gov.uk/gov…pdf

8th Dec 2016

A very tricky and grey area. Ceres on here is right insofar as to whether a "contract" has been formed. Breach of contract can only be pursued if a contract has been formed.
Under normal conditions, when buying something on-line, a contract is not formed until delivery has been made/accepted. That is because inherent in the purchase is the act of delivery (not just despatch). So, if the seller does not deliver then they can cancel and refund you the purchase price, but you cannot claim breach of contract.

There is only one way where this could be different. If the T&Cs of the company selling stuff explicitly say that a contract has been made once payment has been made, then it could be argued that by not delivering at the price paid then a breach of contract has been made. The issue can though be more complex when a credit card is involved. Use of a credit card involves a third party in the contract. The credit card company takes a cut when involved in purchases and when involved in reimbursements. Any grand scale "bad practice" by the seller by reneging on understandings would not go down well with the credit card company and potentially they could seek redress if such widespread bad practice breached any agreement between the seller and credit card company.

As an aside, I once went to a symposium many years ago where one of the leading lights in his field gave an amazing talk on "customer service". He was American. Only one thing let his talk down and that was his personal dealings with a certain computer company. Throughout his talk - he provided example after example of how this company displayed the poorest customer service you can think of. He never bought from them again and gave such poor publicity he probably convinced many others not to buy from them. I never have. Not only that, but I had a similar experience with another computer supplies company, ironically after chasing an HUKD deal. I was a very regular customer of theirs - never done a penny's worth of business with them since and they have lost far more pounds business than they would have done had they honoured the original purchase. Walking with your wallet gives you the greatest satisfaction.

8th Dec 2016

A contract is only formed once the goods have been dispatched. Up until that point, there is not a binding contract and they can cancel (as can you) the order.

8th Dec 2016

ipswich78
A contract is only formed once the goods have been dispatched. Up until … A contract is only formed once the goods have been dispatched. Up until that point, there is not a binding contract and they can cancel (as can you) the order.

I glad you spent the time reading the terms and conditions!

8th Dec 2016

GAVINLEWISHUKD
I glad you spent the time reading the terms and conditions!

Didn't need to. Just because Dell have it in their own terms and conditions does not make it legally correct or overrule other legislation that protects consumers.

8th Dec 2016

ipswich78
Didn't need to. Just because Dell have it in their own terms and … Didn't need to. Just because Dell have it in their own terms and conditions does not make it legally correct or overrule other legislation that protects consumers.

Interesting. I have never seen any legal legislation or consumer laws that states contracts are always formed at the time of despatch of goods?

Original Poster

9th Dec 2016

Thanks for all your time and effort team. You are the best !

Dell are playing a little game of call dodging and not returning now but I'll hang in for long game to represent us all as the paying customers and let you know the outcome.

A big shout out the ever helpful Dell Dublin customer service team (Actually Mumbai when you get through) !
Don't you always find it ironic that so many of our Indian friends have names like Ronald Steven, Michael Paul and even a John James ?. They must have been given a hard time at school with those European double barrelled names. ha ha

9th Dec 2016

dell surely are in the wrong here for misleading advertising

this isn't a case that they dont have the item to give a guy
this is a case where they dont WANT to give the guy the item at a price they advertised on purpose

they 'have' it - they just want him to pay more!

9th Dec 2016

brilly
dell surely are in the wrong here for misleading advertisingthis isn't a … dell surely are in the wrong here for misleading advertisingthis isn't a case that they dont have the item to give a guythis is a case where they dont WANT to give the guy the item at a price they advertised on purposethey 'have' it - they just want him to pay more!

You may be right about the advertising - but getting something done about that will not end up with the OP getting his item at the price he paid for. At best the company will get a slap on the wrist for such advertising.

Original Poster

9th Dec 2016

Todays response from Dell

"Dear Sir,

This is in regards to the below email and am sorry that i could not get back to your email and i have escalated this issue as we are having problems in getting these orders rebooked.

Am extremely sorry as am trying all the way possible to get this order rebooked.

Once again please accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Regards,

Ronald Steven
Customer Care Associate for UK and Ireland
Dell | EMEA Global Sales Operations
UK Customer Service +0844 444 3792
Ireland Customer Service +1 2044014
Work Schedule 8:00 am – 5:00 pm GMT Monday – Friday"

A somewhat meaningless statement of fact
ETA of Order remains 19 December and apparently sitting in Lutterworth since 2nd December ?

"2/12/16 13:08 WWI - LUTTERWORTH FIRST BOX SCANNED INTO HUB.
02/12/16 11:32 PLAN COMMITTED NOTE.
01/12/16 15:58 WAALWIJK MERGE ITEMS PICKED.
01/12/16 11:17 WWI - LUTTERWORTH MERGE PICK SHORTAGE.
01/12/16 11:15 EMF DEPARTED MANU.FACILITY"

Ho Hum

9th Dec 2016

GAVINLEWISHUKD
Interesting. I have never seen any legal legislation or consumer laws … Interesting. I have never seen any legal legislation or consumer laws that states contracts are always formed at the time of despatch of goods?

No? Pretty standard knowledge. Basically it is in place to protect companies for pricing errors etc. You see it all the time on here with pricing errors, every man and his dog jump on to the bandwagon placing the order thinking they might get it. They don't then they moan, however the company as mentioned is well within their rights to cancel the order up to the point of dispatch without any issues.

Original Poster

9th Dec 2016

The problem, and real con, with these terms and conditions is that while they get there **** in gear my money sits with them. They can claim the funds are not cleared but just "held" all they want but the reality is its sitting there as paid out on my credit card so I'll be liable for payment and / or interest until I get the goods or refund (No doubt 7-10 days to reverse)

Simply put. A bad company to deal with.

Edited by: "Goldstink" 9th Dec 2016

9th Dec 2016

ipswich78
No? Pretty standard knowledge. Basically it is in place to protect … No? Pretty standard knowledge. Basically it is in place to protect companies for pricing errors etc. You see it all the time on here with pricing errors, every man and his dog jump on to the bandwagon placing the order thinking they might get it. They don't then they moan, however the company as mentioned is well within their rights to cancel the order up to the point of dispatch without any issues.

But that is not consumer law. It's just 99% of retailers have this in their terms and conditions to cover themselves. Dell don't.

A contract is formed when they accept your order and send confirmation. It's in the first section of the T&Cs. They cover themselves with part 2.4 and the right to cancel if they can't fulfill the order (or don't want to in this case).

So while for nearly all retailers until despatch is where the contract is formed it's not the case with Dell.
They have in the past recalled items that were out with the carrier.

But the grand reality is either wait and keep at them or ask for your money back. Anything else is likely not to be economically viable.