Sikhiphobia regarding vegetarianism & halal meat (posting due to Subway deal)

298 replies
Found 20th Sep 2016
Due to the recent SUBWAY deal, I am creating a topic here. As most comments were deleted and mod suggested discussing in MISC thread, I am creating this thread.

Amongst the deleted comments were people telling sikhs that they are meant to be vegetarian. Perhaps I should say these comments are offensive or sikhphobic; hey I am not going to be aggressive about it, but why not?

Firstly, sikhs haven't been told to be vegetarians, but have been forbidden from eat halal meat. Not eating halal would not only apply to sikhs, but also to some native indian/hindu warrior kshatriya tribes/backgrounds. Logically, It would be offensive for us to eat something that has been blessed by praying in a direction of a foreign land. Sikhs are actually natives as well, but colonial propaganda shows sikhs as being separate from indian/hindu civilisation.

Eating halal is 1 of the 4 bujjar kurahits, in which halal is called KUTTHA, ie a non arabic term used in punjabi/north indian languages. In fact, Warrior sikhs, mainly Nihang Singhs, have been known to hunt wild boar, and also those that are strict will only eat meat slaughtered by jhatka (an ancient indian instant quick kill method normally with a sword). For sikhs, these rules come from a time when India was under Sharia Law and terrorism, and indian natives were denied from carrying out their native traditions by fanatical emperors such as Aurangzeb.

Vegetarianism is only enforced in some sikh sects/cults, and some of these cults are actually post-colonial and/or colonialism-influenced. These sects also try and imitate warrior sikhs by wearing turbans with a small ceremonial kirpaan (a kind of knife or dagger) and maybe warrior clothing as well, however they do not practise or they even oppose ancient indian warrior practises. So they are more ritualistic in this approach. Some non-sikh HUKDers who preach that sikhs or "proper" sikhs are meant to be vegetarian have probably been mistaken by members of these veggie sects.

So if anyone is going to be sikhphobic, or practise sikhiphobia, please read this first. If people are against British citizens from being allowed to eat neutral, non-ritual, non-prayed upon food, then lets put them under the label sikhiphobia and call them sikhphobic!

Because, as sikhs, humanity comes first for us, and we find it offensive to not be able to eat neutral food. Sikh gurdwaras serve langar (free kitchen) to sikhs and non-sikhs alike, and I know most langars are vegetarian so that anyone can come and eat. We do not sell any of our Gurdwara food commercially, it is only to be served inside the temple!

If anyone wants more information regarding the topics I have raised above, I am happy to provide it

EDIT - added more:

Just wanted to add that non-halal meat is already available for sikhs in British prisons and in the British army. The colonial British-India army allowed separate jhatka for sikhs and halal for muslims.

In places like British schools sikhs do not seem to have the same rights. For the sake of everyone who wants to eat neutral food, it's best to say that sikhs are discriminated against in these places. Being discriminated against to try and eat something neutral or unspecialised is a really bad kind of discrimination!

JHATKA : - Some posters are mentioning Jhatka in their posts: this wikipedia topic on Jhatka has now become quite informative. en.wikipedia.org/wik…tka

298 Comments

Just goes to show you how silly religion is imo,i think anybody that believes in the supernatural is suffering from terminal stupidity,thing is it would be funny if it wasn't wrecking the world for the rest of us.

I think your post is discrimination in itself.
I don't want to eat food that's been prayed on or slaughtered in a religious way but I'm not Sikh.

Halal means permissible. Halal food is not blessed by praying in the direction of a foreign land. Only prayers are done in the direction of mecca. God's name is said before the slaughter. Same goes for kosher meat. Meat jews can eat. So muslims can technically eat kosher meat.

If you cant eat halal then you also cant eat kosher food.

I had seen a sikh man with kids at halal kfc. So only some backward sikhs are ignorant about not eating halal meat.

It's funny how sikhs can eat haram meat but not halal.
Edited by: "Somemuslim" 20th Sep 2016

This post has 99% wrong information.

I just find it all amusing when people choose to believe in the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient entity, who can create the entire universe with the click of their ethereal fingers, yet still displays anthropomorphic traits (particularly anything regarding punishment or vengeance), and, for reasons unknown, cares what we eat. I know if I were a god, I'd sure care about one species eating one other species on one of the trillions of rocks in this vast universe. Yup, sure would.oO

It isn't a requirement for Sikhs to be vegetarian at all, a number of Sikh groups and temples consume and serve meat respectively. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed. Halal meat is not allowed.

holidayinn

It isn't a requirement for Sikhs to be vegetarian at all, a number of … It isn't a requirement for Sikhs to be vegetarian at all, a number of Sikh groups and temples consume and serve meat respectively. Anyone who says otherwise is misinformed. Halal meat is not allowed.


Isn't that exactly what the OP has written?

So is subway food halal or normal British? I need an answer so as to avoid the place, thanks.

There is no god. Religion is just away to either fill your life or provide you with excuses and false answers for realities you do wish to face.

End Halal, end the hate between us all.

airfix

So is subway food halal or normal British? I need an answer so as to … So is subway food halal or normal British? I need an answer so as to avoid the place, thanks.


Some are Halal. Same as some KFC and Burger King.
Walk in, if they don't have pork on the menu, walk out.

stuarthanley

Isn't that exactly what the OP has written?



Well, there is a post above suggesting 99% of info is incorrect.

So I've reiterated, just to backup the OP somewhat. And also added that meat is served by Sikhs in UK and abroad.

I avoid all the halal places, disgusting barbaric practice and should be illegal.

Why is our country going back in time, strict laws were brought out to improve humane slaughter, why change them? Why pander to the few?:(

Another fact... there is a surplus of halal meat each day and it is sneaked onto supermarket shelves and into school canteens, so children are forced to consume it without knowing.

airfix

Why is our country going back in time, strict laws were brought out to … Why is our country going back in time, strict laws were brought out to improve humane slaughter, why change them? Why pander to the few?:(



And it's a massive surplus, 25% of all animals slaughtered in the UK are killed in compliance with Islamic religious law (Halal).

Fred Smith

25% of all animals slaughtered in the UK are killed in compliance with … 25% of all animals slaughtered in the UK are killed in compliance with Islamic religious law (Halal) so it's hardly pandering to the few.


There is a surplus though, see above

Fred Smith

25% of all animals slaughtered in the UK are killed in compliance to … 25% of all animals slaughtered in the UK are killed in compliance to Islamic religious law (Halal) so it's hardly pandering to the few.



I don't think Airfix was commenting on the number of animals slaughtered in this way, rather the people who want them slaughtered this way.

Just for the record, I really do not want to eat halal meat. I also worry that it isn't labeled.

I hate the fact that just because someone says something is done because of religion then those among us who actually have more intelligence than an amoeba have to pander to their rubbish, drives me crazy. Religion make seemingly intelligent people very stupid indeed.

People need to engage with reality, god did not create man, man created god.

Question for the op. As many UK supermarkets don't (and organisations like the HFA agree with this policy) label the majority of halal meat on their shelves do you avoid buying meat from these places?

Banned

I just read it & feel I have been robbed of my time.

Cheers OP.

emporer

I hate the fact that just because someone says something is done because … I hate the fact that just because someone says something is done because of religion then those among us who actually have more intelligence than an amoeba have to pander to their rubbish, drives me crazy. Religion make seemingly intelligent people very stupid indeed.People need to engage with reality, god did not create man, man created god.


It also amazes me how many "so called" intelligent people are in the world with qualifications, doctorates, awards, letters after their name etc and then they still believe in children's stories and folklore.

stuarthanley

It also amazes me how many "so called" intelligent people are in the … It also amazes me how many "so called" intelligent people are in the world with qualifications, doctorates, awards, letters after their name etc and then they still believe in children's stories and folklore.



My boss is like this, smart enough guy yet believes completely that a decapitated human being had his head replaced with that of an elephant, all because his holy books say so, and that's just a minute part of the brainwashing manual! I just find it crazy.

airfix

There is a surplus though, see above



Apologies - I missed that posting.

Banned

Couldn't careless about religions. I eat pork and I love it!

Fred Smith

Apologies - I missed that posting.


I think we posted at the same time !

airfix

Why is our country going back in time, strict laws were brought out to … Why is our country going back in time, strict laws were brought out to improve humane slaughter, why change them? Why pander to the few?:(



Mmmm....pander.

Do you genuinely care about animals suffering when they're killed for food or is it more the case of it being a religious practice? Of course I know what you're going to say but still.

Personally I don't particularly care for halal, but then I don't particularly care if eggs are free range and I absolutely adore foie gras so it would be hypocritical of me to denounce one practice under the guise of caring for animals.

Actually I think that if people genuinely cared about all animals then they wouldn't eat meat at all. You can live a perfectly healthy life without doing so and saying you care for animal welfare when you condone the breeding of a chicken so it can live a pretty crummy life for 35 days before being gassed just so you can have a bucket of fried parts.....well that's some cognitive dissonance if ever I saw any.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Mmmm....pander. Do you genuinely care about animals suffering when … Mmmm....pander. Do you genuinely care about animals suffering when they're killed for food or is it more the case of it being a religious practice? Of course I know what you're going to say but still.Personally I don't particularly care for halal, but then I don't particularly care if eggs are free range and I absolutely adore foie gras so it would be hypocritical of me to denounce one practice under the guise of caring for animals.Actually I think that if people genuinely cared about all animals then they wouldn't eat meat at all. You can live a perfectly healthy life without doing so and saying you care for animal welfare when you condone the breeding of a chicken so it can live a pretty crummy life for 35 days before being gassed just so you can have a bucket of fried parts.....well that's some cognitive dissonance if ever I saw any.


Animals die and often in pain and suffering particularly in the wild, there is no avoiding death but as humans we should make their death less painful, that's why we have vets, to help animals die more easily, so like it or not I trust the experts to say how to kill an animal, which is how our law has come to be, incoming people should stick and abide by it .

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Mmmm....pander. Do you genuinely care about animals suffering when … Mmmm....pander. Do you genuinely care about animals suffering when they're killed for food or is it more the case of it being a religious practice? Of course I know what you're going to say but still.Personally I don't particularly care for halal, but then I don't particularly care if eggs are free range and I absolutely adore foie gras so it would be hypocritical of me to denounce one practice under the guise of caring for animals.Actually I think that if people genuinely cared about all animals then they wouldn't eat meat at all. You can live a perfectly healthy life without doing so and saying you care for animal welfare when you condone the breeding of a chicken so it can live a pretty crummy life for 35 days before being gassed just so you can have a bucket of fried parts.....well that's some cognitive dissonance if ever I saw any.



That's a very silly argument. All that says is that you don't care. I would rather any animal I ate was treated respectfully and had the best life it could have before it was eaten. I don't want it to die slowly in pain unnecessarily, that isn't respectful.
Edited by: "MSK." 20th Sep 2016

Banned

airfix

Animals die and often in pain and suffering particularly in the wild, … Animals die and often in pain and suffering particularly in the wild, there is no avoiding death but as humans we should make their death less painful, that's why we have vets, to help animals die more easily, so like it or not I trust the experts to say how to kill an animal, which is how our law has come to be, incoming people should stick and abide by it .



Shame our own religious country has no problem allowing humans to die whilst in pain & suffering on a daily basis.

moneysavingkitten

That's a very silly argument. All that says is that you don't care. I … That's a very silly argument. All that says is that you don't care. I would rather any animal I ate was treated respectfully and had the best life it could have before it was eaten. I don't want it to die slowly in pain unnecessarily, that isn't respectful.



So you are ok with a life being created for unnecessary reasons, but you also want life to be treated respectfully? Again, those aren't compatible beliefs in my opinion but they're ones that people maintain can coexist.
airfix

Animals die and often in pain and suffering particularly in the wild, … Animals die and often in pain and suffering particularly in the wild, there is no avoiding death but as humans we should make their death less painful, that's why we have vets, to help animals die more easily, so like it or not I trust the experts to say how to kill an animal, which is how our law has come to be, incoming people should stick and abide by it .



But we create life purely to extinguish it. That doesn't seem like treating life with respect. It's treating it frivolously so you can enjoy a bucket of chicken.

Like I said, I'm as big a hypocrite as anyone but I admit it. I couldn't stand to see an animal hurt in my presence, but I'm of no doubt that animals suffer so that I can enjoy a tasty meal. We just choose to ignore that and believe that they had a happy life.

When people then take some moral high ground because they don't like certain religions though, it shines a bright light on that hypocrisy.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

So you are ok with a life being created for unnecessary reasons, but you … So you are ok with a life being created for unnecessary reasons, but you also want life to be treated respectfully? Again, those aren't compatible beliefs in my opinion but they're ones that people maintain can coexist.But we create life purely to extinguish it. That doesn't seem like treating life with respect. It's treating it frivolously so you can enjoy a bucket of chicken.Like I said, I'm as big a hypocrite as anyone but I admit it. I couldn't stand to see an animal hurt in my presence, but I'm of no doubt that animals suffer so that I can enjoy a tasty meal. We just choose to ignore that and believe that they had a happy life.When people then take some moral high ground because they don't like certain religions though, it shines a bright light on that hypocrisy.



I don't think you are the person to argue that point when you have already said you don't give a crap how your meat is treated.

I do have many more thoughts on this subject, I've given it a huge amount of consideration. But I actually find your opinion so disgusting I don't feel like sharing them with you. I think you're just trolling for the sake of it.

stuarthanley

Some are Halal. Same as some KFC and Burger King. Walk in, if they … Some are Halal. Same as some KFC and Burger King. Walk in, if they don't have pork on the menu, walk out.


A lot of KFC and subway are halal, I wrote to KFC to complain and they never replied. I don't want to eat halal meat, we walk out if they are an halal branch

moneysavingkitten

I don't think you are the person to argue that point when you have … I don't think you are the person to argue that point when you have already said you don't give a crap how your meat is treated.I do have many more thoughts on this subject, I've given it a huge amount of consideration. But I actually find your opinion so disgusting I don't feel like sharing them with you. I think you're just trolling for the sake of it.



I know your argument.

You'll say you value an animal's life which is why you care how it's treated, but my point is that if you truly valued the life of an animal you wouldn't create life simply to extinguish it for food.

airfix

If you are happy eating halal meat then go ahead you hypocrite. You day … If you are happy eating halal meat then go ahead you hypocrite. You day you couldn't see an animal suffer but then stuff your face with it. I personally don't eat food out of buckets like you, or troughs.



My point is that I believe it's hypocritical to say you value an animal's life when you reduce the creation of that life to serve simply to be extinguished 35 days later to be put in a bucket (KFC packages their food in buckets FYI).

Yet it's a hypocrisy many of us indulge in. Quite simple really.

Original Poster

Somemuslim

Halal means permissible. Halal food is not blessed by praying in the … Halal means permissible. Halal food is not blessed by praying in the direction of a foreign land. Only prayers are done in the direction of mecca. God's name is said before the slaughter. Same goes for kosher meat. Meat jews can eat. So muslims can technically eat kosher meat.If you cant eat halal then you also cant eat kosher food.I had seen a sikh man with kids at halal kfc. So only some backward sikhs are ignorant about not eating halal meat.It's funny how sikhs can eat haram meat but not halal.



Actually, for strict sikhs and indian kshatriya warriors, the method used is jhatka only. This is a method native to Indian subcontinent, so they are following their culture as opposed to a foreign tradition, and also not doing a sacrifice or prayer to a foreign place or any direction. Also remember that people around those parts follow eastern and oriental traditions as opposed to western/middle eastern Abrahamic religions. Religion was largely quite an alien term to the subcontinent, until colonialism tried to package indian civilisation into religions!

Edited by: "UKPokemonMaster" 20th Sep 2016

omg what a stupid thread to argue about, eat whatever you want, it all comes out the same afterwards

Original Poster

Just wanted to add that non-halal meat is already available for sikhs in British prisons and in the British army. The colonial British-India army allowed separate jhatka for sikhs and halal for muslims.

In places like British schools sikhs do not seem to have the same rights. For the sake of everyone who wants to eat neutral food, it's best to say that sikhs are discriminated against in these places. Being discriminated against to try and eat something neutral or unspecialised is a really bad kind of discrimination!

Original Poster

StevenBrown

omg what a stupid thread to argue about, eat whatever you want, it all … omg what a stupid thread to argue about, eat whatever you want, it all comes out the same afterwards


some people believe in the g in omg, but not everyone wants to eat food especially dedicated to the g. hope this helps

stuarthanley

Some are Halal. Same as some KFC and Burger King. Walk in, if they … Some are Halal. Same as some KFC and Burger King. Walk in, if they don't have pork on the menu, walk out.


All KFC are halal

Original Poster

Spasho

Couldn't careless about religions. I eat pork and I love it!


Sikhs love pork too, hunting wild boar was and is an important tradition
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