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    So far....

    Banned
    ..... how well do we think the Tories have done?

    If it is possible to have a thread troll free, unspammed and not deleted by the mods, then I would like to think we may be able to have some educational debate on this.

    Personally, I have been crying out for what the Tories have now done for years. I don't disagree with a word of it.

    Accountability is the key and we are now seeing the amount of waste this country has been venting under the Labour party.

    I've never been happier.....


    .... discuss!

    255 Comments

    Banned

    Totally agree apart from the cuts to retired people + disabled people.

    Original Poster Banned

    bykergrove

    Totally agree apart from the cuts to retired people + disabled people.



    What cuts to retired and disabled people?

    Well, not bad I suppose. I mean we haven't had riots in the streets yet.

    OK so far, but we'll have to wait and see if some of their drastic actions are beneficial in the long run. Let's face it though, surely no party could get it as wrong as Labour.

    Original Poster Banned

    splatsplatsplat

    Well, not bad I suppose. I mean we haven't had riots in the streets yet.



    Only from moronic people not understanding why they are rioting!

    Best thing I saw this week was BBC interviewing the students on the march to London:

    "Why are you marching?"

    "Because we disagree with student fees going up threefold"

    "But you understand you don't pay a penny now until you're earning 21k?"

    "......er....... really?"

    Same old, same old. Education is key!

    Banned

    bykergrove

    Totally agree apart from the cuts to retired people + disabled people.

    Pensioners will also get something back from the government.The Lib Dem … Pensioners will also get something back from the government.The Lib Dem triple guarantee on state pension increases, together with changes to the minimum income guarantee, will deliver £1bn in annual extra spending on pensions by 2014-15.



    disability living allowance has been cut.

    there were some cuts for retired folk, think it was winter allowance or something... john snow was going on about it and how he didn't need it. was a few weeks ago.

    saw this though so tories are not doing bad at all

    Banned

    Predikuesi

    OK so far, but we'll have to wait and see if some of their drastic … OK so far, but we'll have to wait and see if some of their drastic actions are beneficial in the long run. Let's face it though, surely no party could get it as wrong as Labour.



    this.

    Original Poster Banned

    bykergrove

    disability living allowance has been cut.there were some cuts for retired … disability living allowance has been cut.there were some cuts for retired folk, think it was winter allowance or something... john snow was going on about it and how he didn't need it. was a few weeks ago.saw this though so tories are not doing bad at all



    Disability threshold is under scrutiny (which is a good thing).
    As far as I am aware, winter allowance is still in place.

    JonnyTwoToes

    Only from moronic people not understanding why they are rioting!Best … Only from moronic people not understanding why they are rioting!Best thing I saw this week was BBC interviewing the students on the march to London: "Why are you marching?" "Because we disagree with student fees going up threefold""But you understand you don't pay a penny now until you're earning 21k?""......er....... really?"Same old, same old. Education is key!



    Why does it make a difference when you pay it back? probably means when they're earning enough to pay it back, thats when they're settling down wanting to start families.

    Original Poster Banned

    jellybaby22

    dont care either way... at the end of the day..all politicians are out to … dont care either way... at the end of the day..all politicians are out to look after themselves.... all the same in my book...liars



    Hmmmm.... not the best outlook to have on life.

    JonnyTwoToes

    Hmmmm.... not the best outlook to have on life.



    Very true though.

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    Why does it make a difference when you pay it back? probably means when … Why does it make a difference when you pay it back? probably means when they're earning enough to pay it back, thats when they're settling down wanting to start families.



    Because students can't afford 9k a year. They may be able to afford it when they are earning a crust. We are moving more toward the American system, which is a GOOD thing. It won't be long before we have employers offering scholarships and internships. The decent students won't pay a penny.

    Working until 66 is a good idea imo. It gives you a bit more time to pay the university back.

    JonnyTwoToes

    Because students can't afford 9k a year. They may be able to afford it … Because students can't afford 9k a year. They may be able to afford it when they are earning a crust. We are moving more toward the American system, which is a GOOD thing. It won't be long before we have employers offering scholarships and internships. The decent students won't pay a penny.



    thats a very rose tinted view of how the american system works.

    Original Poster Banned

    jellybaby22

    perhaps not..but its the way I see it... they all promise this that and … perhaps not..but its the way I see it... they all promise this that and the next thing..then as soon as they are in power in changes...they do what suits them...



    But it surprises me on every occasion when I read these comments that the understanding of politicians being tax payers like you and I goes out the window.

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    thats a very rose tinted view of how the american system works.



    So you disagree?

    Great accountability? Less quangos? less public servants?

    How come David Cameron has just appointed a personal film-maker and personal photographer paid for by us?
    independent.co.uk/new…tml

    Politicians are all the same - preach one thing, practice another..........although at least you know what to expect from the Tories but the Lib Dems sold themselves down the river....

    What they have done so far is exactly what they always do plenty of "Cruelty"

    Wait for the final bill but don't lose your job in the meantime only to find yourself unable to find another or being incapable of doing one. The trouble with you lot is you think you are better than others. It must be this lack of compassion for others that allows you to do so well.
    Edited by: "dontasciime" 12th Nov 2010

    crap. I'm £14k down already due to delayed pension, and my work pension is going to be CPI instead of RPI , ditto husband. Nice to see all those big firms who didn't pay in to their private pensions schemes enough are now off the hook with legislation changing their liability from RPI increase to CPI. Actuarially revalued back in to the black. That wasn't in the contract of employment, but a law has overidden it. Never mind, they are doing their best to devalue the pound so the massive UK debt won't be there long.

    Original Poster Banned

    jellybaby22

    im not denying they pay tax?? But they earn enough...and claim enough … im not denying they pay tax?? But they earn enough...and claim enough dodgy expenses... X)



    Agreed, but look at a private companies middle management (and upwards) 'expenses'.
    Many company directors live of director loan accounts. The only difference is that this is public money rather than private money.
    I will be the first to argue against ridiculous MP expenses, but in the wider picture, it's actually a drop in the ocean.

    Original Poster Banned

    gari189

    Great accountability? Less quangos? less public servants? How come … Great accountability? Less quangos? less public servants? How come David Cameron has just appointed a personal film-maker and personal photographer paid for by us?[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-miliband-attacks-david-cameron-over-vanity-staff-2124582.html]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-miliband-attacks-david-cameron-over-vanity-staff-2124582.html[/url]Politicians are all the same - preach one thing, practice another..........although at least you know what to expect from the Tories but the Lib Dems sold themselves down the river....



    Yes, this is totally out of order.

    JonnyTwoToes

    Only from moronic people not understanding why they are rioting!Best … Only from moronic people not understanding why they are rioting!Best thing I saw this week was BBC interviewing the students on the march to London: "Why are you marching?" "Because we disagree with student fees going up threefold""But you understand you don't pay a penny now until you're earning 21k?""......er....... really?"Same old, same old. Education is key!



    Yeah, only problem with them not paying back until they're earning that is when they do, it will be a mini-mortgage before they even have a foothold in life.

    Jonny, I'm sure you and many others on here have benefited from a free higher education in the past - yet you reckon this is a positive thing?

    Original Poster Banned

    chalkysoil

    crap. I'm £14k down already due to delayed pension, and my work pension … crap. I'm £14k down already due to delayed pension, and my work pension is going to be CPI instead of RPI , ditto husband. Nice to see all those big firms who didn't pay in to their private pensions schemes enough are now off the hook with legislation changing their liability from RPI increase to CPI. Actuarially revalued back in to the black. That wasn't in the contract of employment, but a law has overidden it. Never mind, they are doing their best to devalue the pound so the massive UK debt won't be there long.



    Really good point. I do disagree with this totally. No transition. Just a simple 'change of tactics'. "Stuff those who are of a certain generation and lets look after those newbies."
    I agree with you. It could have been handled a lot better.

    Original Poster Banned

    moob

    Yeah, only problem with them not paying back until they're earning that … Yeah, only problem with them not paying back until they're earning that is when they do, it will be a mini-mortgage before they even have a foothold in life.Jonny, I'm sure you and many others on here have benefited from a free higher education in the past - yet you reckon this is a positive thing?



    No. Parents earned too much for a grant so I had to pay my way whilst others had cars and brand new Hi-Fi systems!
    I learned from that though.

    Agreed, but look at a private companies middle management (and upwards) … Agreed, but look at a private companies middle management (and upwards) 'expenses'.Many company directors live of director loan accounts. The only difference is that this is public money rather than private money.I will be the first to argue against ridiculous MP expenses, but in the wider picture, it's actually a drop in the ocean.



    In the wider picture it's not the amount of money they took, but the fact that they all knew what they were doing was immoral and little better than stealing, the fact that these are the people running our country and preaching to us about how we should live is DEEPLY worrying.

    JonnyTwoToes

    No. Parents earned too much for a grant so I had to pay my way whilst … No. Parents earned too much for a grant so I had to pay my way whilst others had cars and brand new Hi-Fi systems!I learned from that though.



    Not necessarily talking about the grant system, you never had to pay fees I'd imagine - living costs come on top of their course fees you know.

    I'm sure you scrapped through 'paying your way'.

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    In the wider picture it's not the amount of money they took, but the fact … In the wider picture it's not the amount of money they took, but the fact that they all knew what they were doing was immoral and little better than stealing, the fact that these are the people running our country and preaching to us about how we should live is DEEPLY worrying.



    If we are talking about the expenses scandal then you will get no argument from me.
    A self regulatory system of old farts will surely result in the debacle we had.

    Which is why a NEW transparent system must be a GOOD thing!

    I used to have discussion in my local pub with an economics proffessor at one of the uni's in manchester, he believed our politicians should be paid more on the lines of U.S politicians, as he thought they should be paid like people in the private sectors, who earn a lot more for very similar positions. I disagreed totally, M.P's should be people who feel a need to do public service, not be in it for the money.

    Original Poster Banned

    moob

    Not necessarily talking about the grant system, you never had to pay fees … Not necessarily talking about the grant system, you never had to pay fees I'd imagine - living costs come on top of their course fees you know.I'm sure you scrapped through 'paying your way'.



    I do understand you're point. However, I have very conservative parents. They loaned me money with a less than generous APR, I had two jobs and I paid back the LTP (loan to parents) about 5 years ago.
    And I haven't a bad word to say against any of it.

    jellybaby22

    dont care either way... at the end of the day..all politicians are out to … dont care either way... at the end of the day..all politicians are out to look after themselves.... all the same in my book...liars



    +1 Exactly the way I feel.

    JonnyTwoToes.[/quote

    I do understand you're point. However, I have very conservative parents. … I do understand you're point. However, I have very conservative parents. They loaned me money with a less than generous APR, I had two jobs and I paid back the LTP (loan to parents) about 5 years ago.And I haven't a bad word to say against any of it.



    Your parents charged you interest on a loan for uni? i think thats quite sad.

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    I used to have discussion in my local pub with an economics proffessor at … I used to have discussion in my local pub with an economics proffessor at one of the uni's in manchester, he believed our politicians should be paid more on the lines of U.S politicians, as he thought they should be paid like people in the private sectors, who earn a lot more for very similar positions. I disagreed totally, M.P's should be people who feel a need to do public service, not be in it for the money.



    Although the American system is based on the ancient Roman system of a house of representatives. I'm all for Plebeians, Tribunes and Consuls. We'd have a far more representative system.

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    I do understand you're point. However, I have very conservative parents. … I do understand you're point. However, I have very conservative parents. They loaned me money with a less than generous APR, I had two jobs and I paid back the LTP (loan to parents) about 5 years ago.And I haven't a bad word to say against any of it.[/quote



    Why exactly?

    So, you agree that comparing the two scenarios is entirely unfair.

    4 year degree fees = £36k
    4 year living costs = £20k

    That's a lot of money, and I'm quite sure there are many prospective students out there from less privileged backgrounds who will seriously reconsider doing a degree with that mountain of debt in their horizon.

    JonnyTwoToes

    Why exactly?


    well i would hope if i needed a loan of my dad he wouldnt charge me interest,in fact i dont think it would cross his mind. especially not for uni.

    Original Poster Banned

    moob

    So, you agree that comparing the two scenarios is entirely unfair.4 year … So, you agree that comparing the two scenarios is entirely unfair.4 year degree fees = £36k4 year living costs = £20kThat's a lot of money, and I'm quite sure there are many prospective students out there from less privileged backgrounds who will seriously reconsider doing a degree with that mountain of debt in their horizon.



    But surely that is the point? You make more of yourself and you are able to pay the fees back?

    i think it is great the nhs and public sector is being heavilly cut, who needs them,

    increasing student debt, cutting welfare! happy days

    as long as im not directly affected why do i care, more money in my pocket

    this is basically your attitude.

    i think we will see a whole lot more backlash and regression, i hate this whole idea labour screwed us into the recent recession, it simply stems from the fact countries strive for infinite growth which is effectively impossible, its all swings and roundabouts we will grow again and have moe recessions if we continue with the same attitude.

    the whole attitude of western society **** me off though and i could rant allday about loosely related crap, apologies for trolling wanted to have a little rant

    Original Poster Banned

    Randa1

    well i would hope if i needed a loan of my dad he wouldnt charge me … well i would hope if i needed a loan of my dad he wouldnt charge me interest,in fact i dont think it would cross his mind. especially not for uni.



    I'm convinced I wouldn't go to prison if I faulted on it
    It was a learning curve for me that I totally appreciate my parents giving me (now anyway! - At the time I was like WTF!)

    moob

    So, you agree that comparing the two scenarios is entirely unfair.4 year … So, you agree that comparing the two scenarios is entirely unfair.4 year degree fees = £36k4 year living costs = £20kThat's a lot of money, and I'm quite sure there are many prospective students out there from less privileged backgrounds who will seriously reconsider doing a degree with that mountain of debt in their horizon.



    i wouldnt have gone near the place, i came from a single parent family, so i got full grants and no fees. I saved money doing a weekend job during 6th form and then got a job my second year ( i fullying enjoyed the Uni bar in my first.

    JonnyTwoToes

    I'm convinced I wouldn't go to prison if I faulted on it ;)It was a … I'm convinced I wouldn't go to prison if I faulted on it ;)It was a learning curve for me that I totally appreciate my parents giving me (now anyway! - At the time I was like WTF!)



    what was the APR?
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