sold something on facebook, now they want me to pay for repairs

43
Posted 6th JanEdited by:"SANDYRING"
i sold a washing machine on facebook, i advertised it as fully working but makes a bit of a noise when spinning, the buyer took it knowing this and then took it apart and obviously found something was wrong hence the noise on spinning and is now asking for me to pay for the new parts?.
The machine works, it just makes a noise, so is this really within the buyers right that I refund or buy these parts?
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AndyRoyd06/01/2020 23:26

OP kinda implies no warranty was offered, inferred or applicable.


of course but i mean them taking it apart puts the liability on them really by the same logic of warranty i.e. if you disassemble it you broke it
Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why I am here. I bought the machine and here is my last message to Jon which I don't think he read before removing himself from the thread.

Hi Jon, I know this situation is annoying as tenants have been using your machine and through no fault of your own they have caused you other issues in the flat by not looking after your property properly. Your listing says 'fully working' I have attached photos of components which were broken upon receipt of the machine. I did say to you I was going to 'lift the lid and have a look' and I have lifted the perishable seal on the door, this wouldn't invalidate a warranty (even if it had one), but agree we entered into no further agreement about costs. Unfortunately with broken components the machine can not be 'fully working', therefore the listing is inaccurate. You did mention 'a bit of noise' which I've measured to be 100 decibels with an average of nearly 90 (see screen shot and graph) this is misleading when described as 'a bit', even the neighbours mentioned the noise last night. In your forum post (which you have posted into this thread) you can be quoted 'obviously found something was wrong' so let's be honest and admit that you knew the machine was not 'fully working'. I don't think any technician would suggest to keep using this machine as faults like this quickly lead to more. I know the situation is frustrating for us both but you have sold me this item with an advert which is inaccurate and misleading and does not say 'sold as seen'. You have already offered to pick it up in a couple of weeks as you have other options for it. We are both reasonable and I'm willing to explore other solutions, but now in all honesty you picking it up sounds like the best one.

I have no idea what can be done from here other than appealing to Jon's kind nature, I have reported the listing to Facebook and await their thoughts on whether the listing was an accurate description of the machine.



Sold as seen. Forget about it and move on. Thats the chance you take when you buy used goods. Not your problem.
ThebuyerofJonsmachine08/01/2020 09:35

Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why …Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why I am here. I bought the machine and here is my last message to Jon which I don't think he read before removing himself from the thread. Hi Jon, I know this situation is annoying as tenants have been using your machine and through no fault of your own they have caused you other issues in the flat by not looking after your property properly. Your listing says 'fully working' I have attached photos of components which were broken upon receipt of the machine. I did say to you I was going to 'lift the lid and have a look' and I have lifted the perishable seal on the door, this wouldn't invalidate a warranty (even if it had one), but agree we entered into no further agreement about costs. Unfortunately with broken components the machine can not be 'fully working', therefore the listing is inaccurate. You did mention 'a bit of noise' which I've measured to be 100 decibels with an average of nearly 90 (see screen shot and graph) this is misleading when described as 'a bit', even the neighbours mentioned the noise last night. In your forum post (which you have posted into this thread) you can be quoted 'obviously found something was wrong' so let's be honest and admit that you knew the machine was not 'fully working'. I don't think any technician would suggest to keep using this machine as faults like this quickly lead to more. I know the situation is frustrating for us both but you have sold me this item with an advert which is inaccurate and misleading and does not say 'sold as seen'. You have already offered to pick it up in a couple of weeks as you have other options for it. We are both reasonable and I'm willing to explore other solutions, but now in all honesty you picking it up sounds like the best one.I have no idea what can be done from here other than appealing to Jon's kind nature, I have reported the listing to Facebook and await their thoughts on whether the listing was an accurate description of the machine.


Always two sides to a story
43 Comments
Lol they have no chance... if they want can try small claims but as long as you were honest just say no and move on.
Well it’s second hand
Were they expecting brand new ???
Doubt they have any rights here
I was honest and said it does fully work but has some noisy issues when spinning but it does work, the fact that he took it apart and found some issues is not exactly what i was expecting.
Sold as seen. Forget about it and move on. Thats the chance you take when you buy used goods. Not your problem.
by taking it apart would void the warrenty anyway presumably
Felicitous06/01/2020 23:13

by taking it apart would void the warrenty anyway presumably


OP kinda implies no warranty was offered, inferred or applicable.
AndyRoyd06/01/2020 23:26

OP kinda implies no warranty was offered, inferred or applicable.


of course but i mean them taking it apart puts the liability on them really by the same logic of warranty i.e. if you disassemble it you broke it
They are trying it on. Tell them to jog on. Sold as seen.
Felicitous06/01/2020 23:28

of course but i mean them taking it apart puts the liability on them …of course but i mean them taking it apart puts the liability on them really by the same logic of warranty i.e. if you disassemble it you broke it


It doesn't work like that.

Assuming you didn't sell it as a business then the buyer has the right that the machine be as described and that it isn't you have to remedy that. They have no right that it continue working after they buy it as would be the case if it was bought from someone selling for profit.

So it'll depend on how exactly you described it and what exactly is wrong.

This case sounds like it could be borderline from the way you've described it here. 'Fully working but noisy' could reasonably be interpreted that there's nothing wrong and the noise is simply how it was designed.

If you told the buyer it was much noisier than it used to be then they should have reasonably surmised that one of the components was broken or worn out which much weakens their case.

Did the buyer see it running before purchase, or have the opportunity to?

What's wrong exactly? If it something that's likely to affect the functionality of the machine in some way or just something that affects the noise?


Although the way you've described the buyer's approach does ring alarm bells that it could be some sort of scam. So do proceed carefully.

If it isn't as described then you do have options other than paying for parts to repair it. For example you can take the machine back and refund the buyer.
EndlessWaves07/01/2020 11:22

For example you can take the machine back and refund the buyer.


After an unknown person with unknown skills has taken it to pieces? No chance, you don't know if they have removed and kept good parts or how well it has been re-assembled. If the seller was honest to the best of their skill-set and knowledge as an average consumer then they have done no wrong in my eyes, ie the machine still performed but was noisy as they had said then case closed tell them to jog on and do one.
I'd personally make a judgement call on whether its worth the hassle of having any retribution e.g windows put through or car damaged etc.
Thanks All, I've just told him sold as seen, that I was transparent with what i knew about the item, and that now's he's taken it apart I have no idea what's he's done. Obviously he's adamant I should re refunding or paying for parts, but the bloody thing works but he's classing it as broken....
Edited by: "SANDYRING" 7th Jan
frakison07/01/2020 13:55

I'd personally make a judgement call on whether its worth the hassle of …I'd personally make a judgement call on whether its worth the hassle of having any retribution e.g windows put through or car damaged etc.



I must admit, I was thinking the exact same thing. It's all well and good saying "Caveat Emptor" and "Private sale - so no comeback" but some people won't take that as an answer these days and the retribution might not be to your liking.

It's a tough one as everyone has 'called it' already. A private sale isn't like an Ebay sale. There are conditions to that avenue. I know nothing about Facebook but do they also have conditions attached to sales? I thought it was more like a 'classifieds' affair so no conditions imposed - therefore it's kind of "sold as seen." If the machine worked 'perfectly' but was just noisy (drum bearing maybe) and they are trying to fix that, then I would be inclined to ask why they are trying to 'fix' a working machine? Then if they say they are trying to cure the "noise" then I'd apologise but politely point out that that's their issue - and you had mentioned this BEFORE purchase.

Is the buyer someone who you would expect to threaten or carry out any kind of retribution? Are YOU (OP) the type who can shrug off such an action or would you be fearful? What kind of money are we talking about - i.e. did the sale amount to £100+ or just tens of pounds? Would a return/refund be better from a 'safety' point-of-view or maybe a partial refund as a gesture towards repair? What 'costs' are the buyer stating?

Just out of interest, did YOU sell the machine because of the noise? Was it bad? If so, and without a demo, the buyer perhaps didn't expect it to be that bad...
You sold it saying there was a noise when spinning so he knew there was clearly an issue with the machine. I wouldn't offer anything, and now that he's disassembled it I wouldn't accept a return as it could be even worse than when you sold it or have parts missing.
Judge Rinder would award nothing to the Buyer ... by taking it apart without prior agreement , she has invalidated any furter post-sale rights.
Re Windows put thru ... Bill Gates must Hate 700Million people!
You were upfront with him , and rightly you've told him sold as seen , he's just trying it on
You stated in the description of the product it's condition, the buyer has paid for it and formed a contract with you accepting the terms of sale (in this case the noise) - I can't see how they can really do anything to be honest.
Edited by: "guru404" 7th Jan
Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why I am here. I bought the machine and here is my last message to Jon which I don't think he read before removing himself from the thread.

Hi Jon, I know this situation is annoying as tenants have been using your machine and through no fault of your own they have caused you other issues in the flat by not looking after your property properly. Your listing says 'fully working' I have attached photos of components which were broken upon receipt of the machine. I did say to you I was going to 'lift the lid and have a look' and I have lifted the perishable seal on the door, this wouldn't invalidate a warranty (even if it had one), but agree we entered into no further agreement about costs. Unfortunately with broken components the machine can not be 'fully working', therefore the listing is inaccurate. You did mention 'a bit of noise' which I've measured to be 100 decibels with an average of nearly 90 (see screen shot and graph) this is misleading when described as 'a bit', even the neighbours mentioned the noise last night. In your forum post (which you have posted into this thread) you can be quoted 'obviously found something was wrong' so let's be honest and admit that you knew the machine was not 'fully working'. I don't think any technician would suggest to keep using this machine as faults like this quickly lead to more. I know the situation is frustrating for us both but you have sold me this item with an advert which is inaccurate and misleading and does not say 'sold as seen'. You have already offered to pick it up in a couple of weeks as you have other options for it. We are both reasonable and I'm willing to explore other solutions, but now in all honesty you picking it up sounds like the best one.

I have no idea what can be done from here other than appealing to Jon's kind nature, I have reported the listing to Facebook and await their thoughts on whether the listing was an accurate description of the machine.



ThebuyerofJonsmachine08/01/2020 09:35

Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why …Hi everyone, Jon posted your comments into the Messenger thread hence why I am here. I bought the machine and here is my last message to Jon which I don't think he read before removing himself from the thread. Hi Jon, I know this situation is annoying as tenants have been using your machine and through no fault of your own they have caused you other issues in the flat by not looking after your property properly. Your listing says 'fully working' I have attached photos of components which were broken upon receipt of the machine. I did say to you I was going to 'lift the lid and have a look' and I have lifted the perishable seal on the door, this wouldn't invalidate a warranty (even if it had one), but agree we entered into no further agreement about costs. Unfortunately with broken components the machine can not be 'fully working', therefore the listing is inaccurate. You did mention 'a bit of noise' which I've measured to be 100 decibels with an average of nearly 90 (see screen shot and graph) this is misleading when described as 'a bit', even the neighbours mentioned the noise last night. In your forum post (which you have posted into this thread) you can be quoted 'obviously found something was wrong' so let's be honest and admit that you knew the machine was not 'fully working'. I don't think any technician would suggest to keep using this machine as faults like this quickly lead to more. I know the situation is frustrating for us both but you have sold me this item with an advert which is inaccurate and misleading and does not say 'sold as seen'. You have already offered to pick it up in a couple of weeks as you have other options for it. We are both reasonable and I'm willing to explore other solutions, but now in all honesty you picking it up sounds like the best one.I have no idea what can be done from here other than appealing to Jon's kind nature, I have reported the listing to Facebook and await their thoughts on whether the listing was an accurate description of the machine.


Always two sides to a story
@ThebuyerofJonsmachine

Hi there. I'd like to thank you for posting as it is VERY rare to hear the other side of a transaction. It sounds like you are a very reasonable person but it also sounds like the OP (Jon) is in the process of finding an amicable solution. Well, I hope so.

Not that any further input from me (us) is really required but did the 'broken' parts make the machine inoperable? I only ask this as if it was described as "Fully working" and the machine DID work, then it wasn't described incorrectly. Nit-picking; I know; but the OP may not have known about the 'broken' part(s) prior to sale and as far as they were concerned, it worked perfectly - albeit noisily!

Regarding the noise, I did worry that this may be a case we are all perhaps guilty of - and that's understating an issue. In describing something, we don't tend to oversell a problem - i.e. I wouldn't sell you this machine if I said "Yep, it works absolutely fine. Makes a hell of a row though.." Therefore, we might say "Yeah, it's a bit noisy now but it still works absolutely fine." The second one doesn't sound as bad, does it? AND it still points out the flaw. Might this be one of those instances?

As to Facebook, I didn't get an answer to whether they have ANY sway in 'private' sales made through their platform? I'm not sure they can take any action - one way or the other, can they?

Well, I really hope you two can sort something mutually satisfactory as it sounds as if you are both very reasonable people. It doesn't sound like either of you were trying to pull the wool over the others eyes. It's just an unfortunate circumstance. Thanks again for taking the time/effort to sign up and tell your side of things, TBOJM. I hope perhaps you may participate on the site in future.

Kind regards, Phsy.
Edited by: "Phsycronix" 8th Jan
Hi Phsy,

Thanks for your post, I would like to feel that we are both reasonable people and an agreeable solution could be reached.

Jon had agreed to pick it up but then posted on here, read the comments and wrote to me that the 'consensus' was 'sold as seen' and since then communications have stopped and he has removed himself from the thread on messenger. I invite him to comment now as I can no longer contact him through FB.

The machine does wash and spin but one of the counterweights is shattered hence the 100 decibels of noise. I don't think any technician would suggest continuing to use it as this will only lead to more problems. I would argue with a broken component such as this it's not 'fully working'. I wonder if Jon would use it in his own house given how noisy it is and it's expected life span?

I don't think they're are any condition to sale on FB in this country but I have reported the sale and will see what they have to say.
Jon if you are reading this I am happy explore other solutions like getting it fixed as ultimately I want a working machine.
ThebuyerofJonsmachine09/01/2020 12:45

Hi Phsy,Thanks for your post, I would like to feel that we are both …Hi Phsy,Thanks for your post, I would like to feel that we are both reasonable people and an agreeable solution could be reached.Jon had agreed to pick it up but then posted on here, read the comments and wrote to me that the 'consensus' was 'sold as seen' and since then communications have stopped and he has removed himself from the thread on messenger. I invite him to comment now as I can no longer contact him through FB.The machine does wash and spin but one of the counterweights is shattered hence the 100 decibels of noise. I don't think any technician would suggest continuing to use it as this will only lead to more problems. I would argue with a broken component such as this it's not 'fully working'. I wonder if Jon would use it in his own house given how noisy it is and it's expected life span?I don't think they're are any condition to sale on FB in this country but I have reported the sale and will see what they have to say.Jon if you are reading this I am happy explore other solutions like getting it fixed as ultimately I want a working machine.



"The machine does wash and spin" so it does work as intended. But was it damaged in transport or during fitting maybe it wasnt as bad when he had it and moving it has damaged it more or perhaps he sold you it knowing all along but your both going to struggle to prove it either way as Jon can claim it worked when it left him so dont think there is much either of you can do. Did you ask to see it working before paying or inspect it in any way?
I had been round his rental property earlier in the day to inspect it and it's a very clean and tidy machine so I was super impressed, even the bottom filter was spotless. It was in a van at the time and not near a power source so I couldn't ask for it to be turned on.

Jon delivered it himself later that day and it went straight into my garage on the ground floor. Unfortunately I didn't test it immediately as I was dealing with the kids. He seemed like a really nice guy who was having trouble with his tenants and it seemed a very genuine reason for the sale. As I said, he had agreed to pick it up before posting on here.

I don't think 100 decibels is working as intended, that's loud, in fact 8 times as loud as 70 decibels which I would consider to be normal for a 'fully working' washing machine.

I don't think there is much to do other than appeal to Jon and either find an amicable solution or agree to what was already arranged and come and pick up the machine.
Using a washing machine with a damaged/missing counterweight will certainly lead to other damage to it, and is not really safe to use.
I live across the road from the seller, the one with the dark blue door. I think it only proper that I join this conversation, Stop having people park their vans on the pavement on my side.
39632653-5lMNA.jpg39632653-eEIzD.jpg
ThebuyerofJonsmachine09/01/2020 13:30

I had been round his rental property earlier in the day to inspect it and …I had been round his rental property earlier in the day to inspect it and it's a very clean and tidy machine so I was super impressed, even the bottom filter was spotless. It was in a van at the time and not near a power source so I couldn't ask for it to be turned on.Jon delivered it himself later that day and it went straight into my garage on the ground floor. Unfortunately I didn't test it immediately as I was dealing with the kids. He seemed like a really nice guy who was having trouble with his tenants and it seemed a very genuine reason for the sale. As I said, he had agreed to pick it up before posting on here.I don't think 100 decibels is working as intended, that's loud, in fact 8 times as loud as 70 decibels which I would consider to be normal for a 'fully working' washing machine. I don't think there is much to do other than appeal to Jon and either find an amicable solution or agree to what was already arranged and come and pick up the machine.



This really is quite a tricky one. I have sympathy for both parties, which is quite the dichotomy for me! Usually you only have the one side to go on, but having both gives greater need for consideration. It all seems to hinge on good old morals, I feel. If the OP is happy to stick to their "sold as seen" then I guess; from a transaction point of view; it ends there. However, if there is any room for 'debate' then it would be nice to hear further comment from them.

I can see no easy 'middle ground' here as @SANDYRING probably doesn't want a 'now found to be broken' machine back - but at the same time, TBOJM wouldn't have willingly purchased a 'broken' machine either. The issue; of course; is the grey area of who knew/knows what and when.

Was the machine known to be 'broken' prior to sale?
Was the machine purchased - and damaged AFTER sale?

The only truly amicable answer would be a 50/50 on repair but that would take an agreement by both parties. Something I can't see happening - as yet.

I would love to hear from SANDYRING as to why they agreed to collect the machine (seemingly agreeing to a refund) and what the other "options" were - and are these options not available now? Or was it simply because many said "sold as seen" so you saw this as absolving you of responsibility? Which, had the advert stated such, it would?

As I said in opening, tricky one this. I wish both of you the best in finding a solution.
Here's the main point i kept coming back to before I made my decision, the thing was working, it washes your clothes and spin drys, the only issue was that it made a bit of noise more than i recall when drying, this is how it was sold. It could go on working like that for years or weeks who knows.

The fact is the buyer decided to take it apart and saw some issues apparently, this despite the fact that he was not trained in any way for repairs, he then decided in his mind it wasn't 'fully working', well it does exactly what a washing machine is supposed to, so how can it not be fully working?.

I just said sorry sold as seen and now you have also taken it apart so I HAVE no idea what other damage you might have done being non qualified in this area etc.
Edited by: "SANDYRING" 10th Jan
Buyer beware, they must check before taking it away. After that it's nothing to do with the seller.
@SANDYRING
Again I am sorry for the situation we find ourselves in, I haven't bought many washing machines in my life and you have warned me about buying from Facebook sellers in future, next time I will ask for a working demo. Would you have put it on spin for me if I had asked, given it was in a van?
100 decibels is not 'a bit of noise', I haven't taken it apart, I have lifted the perishable and replaceable door seal and found a cracked counter weight.
You had agreed to come and pick it up and I kindly ask you to stick to this agreement.
Adamo10/01/2020 12:37

Buyer beware, they must check before taking it away. After that it's …Buyer beware, they must check before taking it away. After that it's nothing to do with the seller.



Exactly my thoughts, I think if I had bought the machine and I'd been told it was noisy when spinning, I would have asked the seller to run it on a spin cycle to see how bad the noise was before handing over any money. The buyer was told there was a problem but left it until he'd got it home to try it out, I don't see that the seller should be paying for repairs/parts as it's not like he tried to deceive the buyer before selling.
Hmm it appears item was sold in good faith as 'fully working' as far the seller had been aware, with the noise noted as an issue.

So if a later fault is subsequently discovered as a cause for the noise (putting aside the less likely notion that damage may have occured during transport/due to buyer opening the machine), is the seller truly liable?

Difficult one, but I would be inclined to think the seller is not liable. If still under warranty seller could take back and get repaired, but if not, I personally can't see what obligation the seller has to pay for further parts/repairs. Would be interested to know what the legal position is - I suspect it would favour the seller.

Really unfortunate for the buyer, and if I were in the position I would also be equally frustrated, but that is the risk you take when you buy electricals in informal second hand marketplaces in exchange for the lower prices.
SANDYRING10/01/2020 12:32

Here's the main point i kept coming back to before I made my decision, the …Here's the main point i kept coming back to before I made my decision, the thing was working, it washes your clothes and spin drys, the only issue was that it made a bit of noise more than i recall when drying, this is how it was sold. It could go on working like that for years or weeks who knows.The fact is the buyer decided to take it apart and saw some issues apparently, this despite the fact that he was not trained in any way for repairs, he then decided in his mind it wasn't 'fully working', well it does exactly what a washing machine is supposed to, so how can it not be fully working?.I just said sorry sold as seen and now you have also taken it apart so I HAVE no idea what other damage you might have done being non qualified in this area etc.


Buyer said he only took the back off to inspect it


100db is more than a 'bit of noise' so I would offer a refund
Edited by: "chocci" 11th Jan
chocci11/01/2020 04:37

Buyer said he only took the back off to inspect it100db is more than a …Buyer said he only took the back off to inspect it100db is more than a 'bit of noise' so I would offer a refund


I agree, that is more than a bit of noise
Yes, I think I might buy that car I'm looking at today, its making a hell of a noise but seller mentioned that in the ad. I think the best thing would be to buy it then find out after.
"So if a later fault is subsequently discovered as a cause for the noise"


But it is not a "later fault".
This thread is hilarious.
splatsplatsplat11/01/2020 10:05

Yes, I think I might buy that car I'm looking at today, its making a hell …Yes, I think I might buy that car I'm looking at today, its making a hell of a noise but seller mentioned that in the ad. I think the best thing would be to buy it then find out after.



I thought the same. Buyer should just take this one on the chin and move on.
Bully11/01/2020 10:16

I thought the same. Buyer should just take this one on the chin and move …I thought the same. Buyer should just take this one on the chin and move on.


So if you bought a fridge and the seller said it had a slight fault with the thermostat so would only cool down to 4C and then delivered it and you found it only cooled down to 10C, you'd take that on the chin and write off the loss?
splatsplatsplat11/01/2020 10:05

Yes, I think I might buy that car I'm looking at today, its making a hell …Yes, I think I might buy that car I'm looking at today, its making a hell of a noise but seller mentioned that in the ad. I think the best thing would be to buy it then find out after.


but seller didnt say its making a hell of a noise. He said a 'bit of noise'. 100 decibels is very loud

100db - jet take-off (at 305 meters), use of outboard motor, power lawn mower. 8 times as loud as a normal washing machine (70 dB). Serious damage possible in 8 hr exposure
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