Subway charging VAT for heating up a sandwich?

27
Found 9th Aug 2017
Just saw a sign in my local Subway saying they'll shortly start charging 20% VAT if you ask for your sandwich to be heated up. Has there been a recent change in VAT law I'm not aware or are Subway just taking the ****?
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spoo2 m ago

That was about 5 years ago though.




Even McDonald's Baked Apple Pies would be cold after that period.
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Yeah, remember Greggs arguing their food was 'cooling' and not hot, so they could avoid adding VAT to the food
Bloody Bexiters and remainers!!!
FreeDeal41 m ago

Yeah, remember Greggs arguing their food was 'cooling' and not hot, so …Yeah, remember Greggs arguing their food was 'cooling' and not hot, so they could avoid adding VAT to the food


That was about 5 years ago though.
spoo2 m ago

That was about 5 years ago though.




Even McDonald's Baked Apple Pies would be cold after that period.
spoo37 m ago

That was about 5 years ago though.



wow, didnt think it was that long ago.
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frakison9th Aug 2017

Bloody Bexiters and remainers!!!


31657183-6eq2E.jpg

Hot takeaway food is subject to VAT as opposed to buying general food which is vat free always been this way from way back
My local Subway often partakes in VAT fraud. I always have my sandwiches toasted and I always eat in, but for some reason the receipts always say 'Take out' with VAT only a couple of pence
More detail than I suspect that you couild possibly want is here: gov.uk/gov…ood

TL;DR - what you're describing is a legal requirement, and not a new one.
Edited by: "Illusionary" 9th Aug 2017
preecey2 h, 20 m ago

My local Subway often partakes in VAT fraud. I always have my sandwiches …My local Subway often partakes in VAT fraud. I always have my sandwiches toasted and I always eat in, but for some reason the receipts always say 'Take out' with VAT only a couple of pence


Hmm, so could be HMRC have wised up and instructed Subway to start charging VAT on hot food.

tbh I thought the plan to tax hot takeaway food (the Greggs pasty tax thing mentioned earlier) never actually happened and hot food was still tax free anyway.
What about meatball marinara then?
The law hasn't changed at all, but maybe your local subway have realised (or been made to realise) they have not been charging VAT when they should have.

The Greggs pasty tax change did not go ahead, but the changes that were planned don't affect the situation you describe anyway.

Basically, all take away food is subject to VAT when it is intended to be eaten (or kept) hot. This includes chips, pizzas etc and the hot subway sandwiches. It also includes any cold subway sandwiches that have been heated up (as they are now intended to be eaten hot)

The only exceptions are things like pies, which have just come out of the oven and are intended to be sold cold, but you just happen to buy whilst they are still hot.

The Greggs pasty thing was trying to include these 'cooling' pies, but didn't become law in the end.
What a stupid law, another poor tax
Pandamansays11 h, 10 m ago

The Greggs pasty thing was trying to include these 'cooling' pies, but …The Greggs pasty thing was trying to include these 'cooling' pies, but didn't become law in the end.


Aah okay, didn't realise that, I thought it related to hot food generally.

Pandamansays11 h, 10 m ago

The law hasn't changed at all, but maybe your local subway have realised …The law hasn't changed at all, but maybe your local subway have realised (or been made to realise) they have not been charging VAT when they should have.



If that's the case no Subways around Brum or the Black Country have been charging VAT on hot sandwiches, all the ones I've used have had the same pricing for years.
31665727-Ukw1o.jpgthats why i call for microwave man
Edited by: "kevlfc" 10th Aug 2017
What do they class as hot? They melt the cheese for about 10secs under the grill but you can hardly call their subs as hot... mildly luke warm maybe.
Edited by: "barriey" 10th Aug 2017
What if they ask you if you want the sandwich toasted?
Is that classed as entrapment?
barriey10th Aug

What do they class as hot? They melt the cheese for about 10secs under the …What do they class as hot? They melt the cheese for about 10secs under the grill but you can hardly call their subs as hot... mildly luke warm maybe.


anything above ambient temperature, is what is stated in the updated regulations.
I don't usually go in for thread resurrection but:

Went in to the Subway near work today, first time this month, they have now scrapped the two tier hot/cold pricing and are back to a single price for each sub, which of course is the higher of the two old prices. As far as I can see there are only 3 possible conclusions:

1 - Subway are charging the excl VAT price on hot food which would be tax evasion
2 - Subway are charging the incl VAT price on cold food which would be fraudulently overcharging their customers
3 - Their original justification for introducing a two tier price system on the basis of the laws around VAT was a blatant lie used to justify an exhorbitant 20% price rise by shifting the blame onto the HMRC

So Subway, which is it?
Edited by: "spoo" 22nd Mar
spoo22 m ago

I don't usually go in for thread resurrection but:Went in to the Subway …I don't usually go in for thread resurrection but:Went in to the Subway near work today, first time this month, they have now scrapped the two tier hot/cold pricing and are back to a single price for each sub, which of course is the higher of the two old prices. As far as I can see there are only 3 possible conclusions:1 - Subway are charging the excl VAT price on hot food which would be tax evasion2 - Subway are charging the incl VAT price on cold food which would be fraudulently overcharging their customers3 - Their original justification for introducing a two tier price system on the basis of the laws around VAT was a blatant lie used to justify an exhorbitant 20% price rise by shifting the blame onto the HMRCSo Subway, which is it?


Probably just decided to make the price the same and deal with the vat in the background. So i guess kind of option 2, though it isn't fraudulent, they will just amend the price before vat so that it costs the same after vat is added.
CoeK8 m ago

Probably just decided to make the price the same and deal with the vat in …Probably just decided to make the price the same and deal with the vat in the background. So i guess kind of option 2, though it isn't fraudulent, they will just amend the price before vat so that it costs the same after vat is added.


Realistically that was almost certainly what they were doing pre August 2017, which leaves option 3, they used an outright lie to justify a big price increase.

I can accept companies increasing prices, it's when the use marketing bull**** to justify it which annoys me.
spoo12 m ago

Realistically that was almost certainly what they were doing pre August …Realistically that was almost certainly what they were doing pre August 2017, which leaves option 3, they used an outright lie to justify a big price increase.I can accept companies increasing prices, it's when the use marketing bull**** to justify it which annoys me.


Who knows what they were doing, I have no idea how much a subway franchise is supported with advice on VAT etc.

Messing about with VAT is rarely profitable, it just causes hassle.
spoo12 m ago

Realistically that was almost certainly what they were doing pre August …Realistically that was almost certainly what they were doing pre August 2017, which leaves option 3, they used an outright lie to justify a big price increase.I can accept companies increasing prices, it's when the use marketing bull**** to justify it which annoys me.


Just boycott it. Only walked into a Subway once, saw 'Billy Bear' was an option, walked straight back out in 10 seconds. Never again.

37312539-NVw4f.jpg
they said they were going to do it up here but it never happend
spoo6 h, 43 m ago

I don't usually go in for thread resurrection but:Went in to the Subway …I don't usually go in for thread resurrection but:Went in to the Subway near work today, first time this month, they have now scrapped the two tier hot/cold pricing and are back to a single price for each sub, which of course is the higher of the two old prices. As far as I can see there are only 3 possible conclusions:1 - Subway are charging the excl VAT price on hot food which would be tax evasion2 - Subway are charging the incl VAT price on cold food which would be fraudulently overcharging their customers3 - Their original justification for introducing a two tier price system on the basis of the laws around VAT was a blatant lie used to justify an exhorbitant 20% price rise by shifting the blame onto the HMRCSo Subway, which is it?



Heated sandwich has always been VATable since 2011 under VAT Notice 709/1, if not before, where major clarifications were made, especially for bakery product where they were more exemptions from VAT (the infamous George Osborne's abandoned pasty tax).

gov.uk/gui…091

Scroll to this :-

Test 2: food that’s been heated to order This test confirms that the sale of food that’s been heated to the customer’s order is standard-rated.

Examples of standard-rated products under this test include:

  • toasted bread, sandwiches, panini, teacakes and similar items
  • garlic bread
  • pizzas
  • hamburgers
  • kebabs
splender26 m ago

Heated sandwich has always been VATable since 2011 under VAT Notice …Heated sandwich has always been VATable since 2011 under VAT Notice 709/1, if not before, where major clarifications were made, especially for bakery product where they were more exemptions from VAT (the infamous George Osborne's abandoned pasty tax).https://www.gov.uk/guidance/catering-takeaway-food-and-vat-notice-7091Scroll to this :-Test 2: food that’s been heated to order This test confirms that the sale of food that’s been heated to the customer’s order is standard-rated. Examples of standard-rated products under this test include:toasted bread, sandwiches, panini, teacakes and similar itemsgarlic breadpizzashamburgerskebabs


I'm not disputing the change in the law, my beef is with a retailer deliberately attempting to mislead their customers by claiming a price rise is down to that change rather than being their own decision:

2011 - law introduced to make VAT chargeable on hot food
2011-2017 - Subway continues to charge the same for hot or cold sandwiches
2017 - Subway adds 20% to the price of their hot sandwiches, claiming the aforementioned change in VAT rules is the reason
2019 - Subway goes back to charging the same price for hot and cold sandwiches which just happens to be the higher price introduced for hot sandwiches less than 2 years previously

This proves the statement they issued in 2017 and plastered all over their stores was a lie, they didn't HAVE to create a price differential at all.
spoo18 m ago

I'm not disputing the change in the law, my beef is with a retailer …I'm not disputing the change in the law, my beef is with a retailer deliberately attempting to mislead their customers by claiming a price rise is down to that change rather than being their own decision:2011 - law introduced to make VAT chargeable on hot food2011-2017 - Subway continues to charge the same for hot or cold sandwiches2017 - Subway adds 20% to the price of their hot sandwiches, claiming the aforementioned change in VAT rules is the reason2019 - Subway goes back to charging the same price for hot and cold sandwiches which just happens to be the higher price introduced for hot sandwiches less than 2 years previouslyThis proves the statement they issued in 2017 and plastered all over their stores was a lie, they didn't HAVE to create a price differential at all.



That behaviour is a classic style of a capitalist or businessperson who is radicalised by extreme ideology about profit. You can never detroy an ideology (rather like the Abrahamic faiths).

Honesty, integrity, morality and good conduct in business do not usually lead to far better than expected profits year on year. We all know this well.

BTW, a retailer selling hot and records on the till as cold, is a nice earner.
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