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    Surface Pro 3 broke after one and a half years, have I got any consumer rights to claim?

    Hi All

    My Surface Pro 3 broke a couple of days ago. I bought it in Feb 2015 so its one and half years old. All in all I spent 1k on it expecting it to last at least a few years but I believe the SSD inside is gone as it says there are no drives. I've looked after it and its in great condition, pretty much no scratches.

    Obviously I'm annoyed that 1k has only bought me one and half years use of this machine so wondering have I got any rights for a claim?

    I spoke to Microsoft, they said its only 1 year warranty and they offered me £400 for a like for like replacement and so I told them where to go.

    I bought it through Rakuten / Expansys.

    Before I do anything drastic trying to fix it... surfacepro3ssdupgrade.blogspot.co.uk/201…tml just wanted to know if there are any avenues I can go down to claim.

    Cheers for any advice.

    29 Comments

    could claim not fit for purpose or if on a credit card try and get something back that way?

    if you can prove it is a defect which was present at the time of manufacture, sure, but good luck with that.

    Original Poster

    justanothercid

    could claim not fit for purpose or if on a credit card try and get … could claim not fit for purpose or if on a credit card try and get something back that way?



    It wasn't bought on a credit card unfortunately. If I try and claim not fit for purpose who do you think that should be directed at? Microsoft? Expansys? Rakuten?

    Cheers

    Answer a couple of simple questions on this clicky web page from Citizens Advice and you will be given all the info you need to pursue your claim. It gives you it straight - even though it may be not what you want to hear. Follow the resultant action plan to the letter and you cannot go wrong.
    Oh and BTW your contract was with the retailer not the company who has a badge on it - or the Chinese people.
    Hope it was Expansys and not Rakuten - looks like they are about to go out of business in UK


    Edited by: "tardytortoise" 1st Sep 2016

    Original Poster

    adamspencer95

    if you can prove it is a defect which was present at the time of … if you can prove it is a defect which was present at the time of manufacture, sure, but good luck with that.


    Ye you're right not sure I can get away with that one as I've been using it fine for the past year and a half.

    if you bought the product in europe (uk is still part of europe) don't know if the site you bought them from is based in europe they are required by law to give you 2 years warrenty regardless of what ever was stated by them at the time of the sale.

    europa.eu/you…htm

    but like said you will need to prove it was faulty at time of purchase though it is to expected that an ssd should last longer than 1.5 years
    Edited by: "Blaat_blaat" 1st Sep 2016

    Blaat_blaat

    if you bought the product in europe (uk is still part of europe) don't … if you bought the product in europe (uk is still part of europe) don't know if the site you bought them from is based in europe they are required by law to give you 2 years warrenty regardless of what ever was stated by them at the time of the sale.http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htmbut like said you will need to prove it was faulty at time of purchase though it is to expected that an ssd should last longer than 1.5 years


    I think you are getting the European Union and Europe mixed up.

    The European Union is a politico-economic union of 28 member states that are located primarily in Europe.

    Europe is a continent that comprises the westernmost part of Eurasia. Europe is bordered by the Arctic Ocean to the north, the Atlantic Ocean to the west, and the Mediterranean Sea to the south.

    Put a small claims in as it's an expensive product so should last accordingly. 1.5 years is a joke for the price of the product and you need to gather as many instances of this type of fault you can find. Independant of what has failed in the device you can no longer use it.
    I've seen this sort of thing in past when a large portion of laptops were crippled by a nvidia chip issue and you could claim a proportion of money up to 6 years later.

    SliderUK

    It wasn't bought on a credit card unfortunately. If I try and claim not … It wasn't bought on a credit card unfortunately. If I try and claim not fit for purpose who do you think that should be directed at? Microsoft? Expansys? Rakuten?Cheers



    Your claim if there is one would be with the company selling the product. I would definitley be expecting them to repair it as thats not fit for purpose lasting that long.

    kester76

    Put a small claims in as it's an expensive product so should last … Put a small claims in as it's an expensive product so should last accordingly. 1.5 years is a joke for the price of the product and you need to gather as many instances of this type of fault you can find. Independant of what has failed in the device you can no longer use it.I've seen this sort of thing in past when a large portion of laptops were crippled by a nvidia chip issue and you could claim a proportion of money up to 6 years later.



    He was offered £400. Is that not a proportion of money.

    Blaat_blaat

    if you bought the product in europe (uk is still part of europe) don't … if you bought the product in europe (uk is still part of europe) don't know if the site you bought them from is based in europe they are required by law to give you 2 years warrenty regardless of what ever was stated by them at the time of the sale.http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htmbut like said you will need to prove it was faulty at time of purchase though it is to expected that an ssd should last longer than 1.5 years



    We did not sign up to that so what you say is not true. We had SOGA at the time of purchase.

    Peegy

    He was offered £400. Is that not a proportion of money.



    ​I thought he meant that they offered to swap him a refurb for an extra £400.

    Find out the make of SSD used - then find out from the manufacturers website what the life expectancy is of the drive. Also Google to find out if the drives have any known issues.

    An SSD has no moving parts so the fact that it has failed well before the expected life is a big enough indicator that there is a manufacturing defect - be it a dry joint or some critical NAND failing etc..

    Don't take it apart until you have exhausted every avenue

    Hope my advice helps resolve your issue

    Original Poster

    kester76

    ​I thought he meant that they offered to swap him a refurb for an extra £ … ​I thought he meant that they offered to swap him a refurb for an extra £400.


    Yes correct Microsoft said it would cost me £400 to get a refurb replacement.

    SliderUK

    Yes correct Microsoft said it would cost me £400 to get a refurb … Yes correct Microsoft said it would cost me £400 to get a refurb replacement.



    That's pretty insulting on it's own. Can you contact anyone else with the same problem and check their serial numbers against your own to see if it's a revision or batch that are having these issues. With the amount you've spent I doubt you will have a problem making a case as normally wear and tear would not cause this issue.

    Original Poster

    discobob

    Find out the make of SSD used - then find out from the manufacturers … Find out the make of SSD used - then find out from the manufacturers website what the life expectancy is of the drive. Also Google to find out if the drives have any known issues.An SSD has no moving parts so the fact that it has failed well before the expected life is a big enough indicator that there is a manufacturing defect - be it a dry joint or some critical NAND failing etc..Don't take it apart until you have exhausted every avenueHope my advice helps resolve your issue



    Thanks for the advice.

    Right apparently SP3 were shipped with either a Samsung or a Hynix

    SK Hynix 256GB MSATA drive, not sure on the exact model.
    MTBF on their MSATA drive is 1.2M (hours?) and I think its 3 year warranty

    Samsung PM851 MTBF is 1.5M hours and I think a 5 year warranty.

    So do I write an email to Expansys support saying my SSD in my SP3 has failed and quote the above figures? Should I quote SOGA or the EU one or both? Does the EU one even actually apply?

    SliderUK

    Thanks for the advice.Right apparently SP3 were shipped with either a … Thanks for the advice.Right apparently SP3 were shipped with either a Samsung or a HynixSK Hynix 256GB MSATA drive, not sure on the exact model.MTBF on their MSATA drive is 1.2M (hours?) and I think its 3 year warrantySamsung PM851 MTBF is 1.5M hours and I think a 5 year warranty.So do I write an email to Expansys support saying my SSD in my SP3 has failed and quote the above figures? Should I quote SOGA or the EU one or both? Does the EU one even actually apply?



    You cannot do that as you do not know for certain that its the SSD, could be the motherboard and the connectors in between or half a dozen other reasons. If MS will not help you need to be dealing with the retailer. Go via the previous link to Citizens Advice.

    Original Poster

    Argoj

    You cannot do that as you do not know for certain that its the SSD, could … You cannot do that as you do not know for certain that its the SSD, could be the motherboard and the connectors in between or half a dozen other reasons. If MS will not help you need to be dealing with the retailer. Go via the previous link to Citizens Advice.



    Very true. I'm in the IT industry and kind of deduced it was the SSD. I have a recovery USB stick which I tried but it wouldn't start as there is no drive to put stuff on to. So i tried a Windows 10 Installation USB which booted and went through the installation menus then got to where do you want to install windows to and no drives were listed. I thought to make sure i'll try a Windows_PE on usb and that booted fine but again no internal drive seen. So thats how I got to my assumption its the SSD.

    The thing is there is no way to check I don't think as its pretty much impossible to get into without breaking something, open to suggestions though?

    SliderUK

    Very true. I'm in the IT industry and kind of deduced it was the SSD. I … Very true. I'm in the IT industry and kind of deduced it was the SSD. I have a recovery USB stick which I tried but it wouldn't start as there is no drive to put stuff on to. So i tried a Windows 10 Installation USB which booted and went through the installation menus then got to where do you want to install windows to and no drives were listed. I thought to make sure i'll try a Windows_PE on usb and that booted fine but again no internal drive seen. So thats how I got to my assumption its the SSD.The thing is there is no way to check I don't think as its pretty much impossible to get into without breaking something, open to suggestions though?



    I refer you once more to my post #4. Follow the link given and the guidance then provided in order to get the best possible outcome.
    Of course, if you insist on using a sledgehammer to crack the nut, not quite literally speaking then you are free to do so - do let us know how that goes. GL

    PS - although my IT skills are a little dated these days I would bet that somewhere, something connects to that SSD. If that connection fails - it could indicate similar symptoms, so the SSD in itself may be fine. You have not stated how important/sensitive the data is to you - that will also have a bearing no doubt on the action you decide to take.
    Edited by: "tardytortoise" 1st Sep 2016

    MSATA cards have screws that are used to secure them to stop them coming out of the slot so that discounts the card having come loose.

    It could be the onboard controller has gone - and if it is that - again points to defective as again it would only fail due to being defective at the time of manufacture - i.e. Imperfection in the silicon or something.

    For this type of equipment - short of it being dropped or damaged - will only fail due to defects as there is no moving parts that can wear out.

    Your claim will always be with the retailer - MS would be done at best under goodwill

    Original Poster

    Ok well i sent the below to Expansys. I think its worded ok, lets see how it goes.

    "I bought the Microsoft Surface Pro 3 + Keyboard from yourselves in 01/02/15 and it has just failed on the 30/08/16. The device still powers on and the bios screen appears. It’s as though it cannot see the internal drive which has Windows installed. In total I have had this device for one and half years costing over £1000. It is in very good condition with no scratches and has never been dropped.

    I am severely disappointed that such an expensive device has already failed a year and a half into its life. As the item you have sold to me is faulty, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, I am requesting that you repair or replace this device as I believe that it should last longer than it has and therefore a defect must have occurred during manufacture for it to fail so soon. This is based on that the device is almost impossible to tamper with and has no moving parts apart from a fan which still can be heard when turned on.

    I hope to hear a swift positive response."

    SliderUK

    Ok well i sent the below to Expansys. I think its worded ok, lets see how … Ok well i sent the below to Expansys. I think its worded ok, lets see how it goes."I bought the Microsoft Surface Pro 3 + Keyboard from yourselves in 01/02/15 and it has just failed on the 30/08/16. The device still powers on and the bios screen appears. It’s as though it cannot see the internal drive which has Windows installed. In total I have had this device for one and half years costing over £1000. It is in very good condition with no scratches and has never been dropped.I am severely disappointed that such an expensive device has already failed a year and a half into its life. As the item you have sold to me is faulty, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, I am requesting that you repair or replace this device as I believe that it should last longer than it has and therefore a defect must have occurred during manufacture for it to fail so soon. This is based on that the device is almost impossible to tamper with and has no moving parts apart from a fan which still can be heard when turned on.I hope to hear a swift positive response."


    Good work - hope you get a favourable response soon. Sorry to nit pick but I would have asked for a response within 14 days but perhaps they will respond much faster and no doubt you gave them some evidence of purchase from them.
    Do you know what? I'm getting a nice warm feeling about this now. Going through the right process like this will either give you satisfactory outcome fairly quick OR by following the process the way you are will stand you in good stead should you have to go to small claims court/

    Original Poster

    tardytortoise

    Good work - hope you get a favourable response soon. Sorry to nit pick … Good work - hope you get a favourable response soon. Sorry to nit pick but I would have asked for a response within 14 days but perhaps they will respond much faster and no doubt you gave them some evidence of purchase from them.Do you know what? I'm getting a nice warm feeling about this now. Going through the right process like this will either give you satisfactory outcome fairly quick OR by following the process the way you are will stand you in good stead should you have to go to small claims court/



    Here's an update!

    I received an response from Expansys saying to ring them, so I did. I quickly explained what happened, the lady on the phone checked the purchase on her system and said that it can be fixed under warranty repair. Didn't have to further explain anything or fight my corner. Result !!

    She's going to raise an RMA which can take 24 to 48 hours and then arrange a collection. Then it could take up to a month for the repair.

    Still not had the RMA yet but its all looking good, will post how the rest of the process goes.

    Cheers all thanks for the advice.

    SliderUK

    Here's an update!I received an response from Expansys saying to ring … Here's an update!I received an response from Expansys saying to ring them, so I did. I quickly explained what happened, the lady on the phone checked the purchase on her system and said that it can be fixed under warranty repair. Didn't have to further explain anything or fight my corner. Result !!She's going to raise an RMA which can take 24 to 48 hours and then arrange a collection. Then it could take up to a month for the repair.Still not had the RMA yet but its all looking good, will post how the rest of the process goes.Cheers all thanks for the advice.


    Yippee! Let others learn from this - keep your cool, follow the process showing just how well you know your consumer rights (without guessing or bullsh*tt*ng) and you will win out in the end.
    PS to OP - you might want to seek some reassurances about your data whilst it is undergoing repair.

    Original Poster

    Well it was picked up yesterday so looking good so far, fingers crossed!!

    Its out for delivery to them today so waiting confirmation, then its apparently up to 30 days for repair.

    SliderUK

    Here's an update!I received an response from Expansys saying to ring … Here's an update!I received an response from Expansys saying to ring them, so I did. I quickly explained what happened, the lady on the phone checked the purchase on her system and said that it can be fixed under warranty repair. Didn't have to further explain anything or fight my corner. Result !!She's going to raise an RMA which can take 24 to 48 hours and then arrange a collection. Then it could take up to a month for the repair.Still not had the RMA yet but its all looking good, will post how the rest of the process goes.Cheers all thanks for the advice.




    not in the all clear had issue with a asus computer before and they said to me on the phone send it to use for repair, amonth later they emailed me saying it is not covered under your warranty, so eithter pay 40£ to get it back (broken still) or pay 180£ to have it repaired (screen broke, not dropped just opened one day and cracked)

    they told me on phone they would repair it, I just paid the 40£ and got it repaired myself for like 80£, cheeky ****

    could of went small claims but really could not be asked

    tardytortoise

    Yippee! Let others learn from this - keep your cool, follow the process … Yippee! Let others learn from this - keep your cool, follow the process showing just how well you know your consumer rights (without guessing or bullsh*tt*ng) and you will win out in the end.PS to OP - you might want to seek some reassurances about your data whilst it is undergoing repair.



    Just to point out that he doesn't know his consumer rights well, the Sales Of Goods Act has been replaced with the Consumer Rights Act

    peodude

    Just to point out that he doesn't know his consumer rights well, the … Just to point out that he doesn't know his consumer rights well, the Sales Of Goods Act has been replaced with the Consumer Rights Act


    you are right of course but at the time of his purchase SOGA was still in place!
    citizensadvice.org.uk/abo…15/

    Edited by: "tardytortoise" 7th Sep 2016

    Good point well made tardy. I hadn't taken that into consideration.
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