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    Tax credits for self employed finished !

    Right here goes...
    my older brother was unemployed for a few years when the job centre sent him on a corse to a place called A4E.
    whilst attending this corse he was asked what he wanted to do, he said mechanic. the corse operator then told him about self employment and tax credits. he said (this was in 2015) that as long he earned £20 a week the government would give him around £55 a week tax credits and also he would not have to attend the job center any more and would obviously be classed as employed too.
    So, he registered with HMRC as self employed, got his unique tax reference number and registered for tax credits.....
    At the end of the year he did his first tax return for around £8000. in April the following year he completed the tax credits form form for that previous year and all looked good !
    So in 2016 he does his next tax return and its for around £11000 so he pays a little bit of tax to HMRC.
    April 2016 comes and he completed the tax credits for again and declared his earnings and all is good or so he thinks ?
    September 2016, 3 BROWN letters arrive from tax credits asking for :
    last 6 months invoices
    last 6 months bank statements
    last 6 months paypal statements
    He sends all relevant information and a month later receives a letter to say his tax credits have been stopped as he is not working towards making a profit !!!!
    at the time of being self employed he was not claiming any benefit apart from Tax Credits ?
    he was paying for prescriptions and dental care as he should do.
    he was paying full rent on his house too.
    He has now been forced to become unemployed again because the tax credits were helping him stay afloat during weeks of low work.
    he now claims £75 a week unemployment benefits, housing benefit of around £100 a week, free dental and health care and is paying Nothing into the system ???
    how can this make any sense !
    you work and pay in and get £50 a week to help you,
    or you sit on your bum and do nothing and get £175 a week and free dental and prescriptions ?
    this makes no sense at all !
    what do you think ???

    96 Comments

    Welcome .... to the machine.

    Its always grim seeing a brown envelope on the door mat, mine usually arrive on a friday morning to ruin my weekend

    I would imagine its all linked to massaging the numbers, all political parties massage the unemployed figures, and over the years have moved people into self employment, sickness, disability and various work schemes.

    Tax credits cant subsidies low end businesses. They must prosper and stand or fail, just like if they had a bank loan or investors.

    Original Poster

    groenleader

    Tax credits cant subsidies low end businesses. They must prosper and … Tax credits cant subsidies low end businesses. They must prosper and stand or fail, just like if they had a bank loan or investors.



    ​but the original idea of tax credits was to subsidise low earnings ?
    but then good old George decided to scrap tax credits, failed miserably and now their chipping away at it bit by bit to eventuality get rid of them

    lollypoplee

    ​but the original idea of tax credits was to subsidise low earnings ? b … ​but the original idea of tax credits was to subsidise low earnings ? but then good old George decided to scrap tax credits, failed miserably and now their chipping away at it bit by bit to eventuality get rid of them



    But you have to see the difference between low earnings, and a business not making enough money to sustain itself and being propped up by the government.

    lollypoplee

    ​but the original idea of tax credits was to subsidise low earnings ? b … ​but the original idea of tax credits was to subsidise low earnings ? but then good old George decided to scrap tax credits, failed miserably and now their chipping away at it bit by bit to eventuality get rid of them



    However Zero tax Personal Allowance is currently £11,000.

    This has increased by £1540 since 2013 - hmm, seems quite generous. Tax Credits are unnecessarily complicated and expensive to run, better to apply zero tax on more earnings!!

    groenleader

    But you have to see the difference between low earnings, and a business … But you have to see the difference between low earnings, and a business not making enough money to sustain itself and being propped up by the government.



    Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and not be a leech on society? The increased income will improve quality of life in the end.

    Also, it's spelt course.

    unquestioned

    Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and … Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and not be a leech on society? The increased income will improve quality of life in the end.Also, it's spelt course.



    Indeed which is why they are no more benefits for him!

    I suspect the OP hoped everyone would say yeah, better to work and get benefits (tax credits) then not work. But this isn't the Tony Blair era now!
    Edited by: "groenleader" 10th Mar

    Original Poster

    unquestioned

    Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and … Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and not be a leech on society? The increased income will improve quality of life in the end.Also, it's spelt course.



    ​you are clearly missing the point of the post.
    why are the the government happy to stop paying £50 a week tax credits in favour of paying £175 a week unemployment benefits and give those people access to free prescriptions and dental care too ?

    lollypoplee

    ​you are clearly missing the point of the post.why are the the government … ​you are clearly missing the point of the post.why are the the government happy to stop paying £50 a week tax credits in favour of paying £175 a week unemployment benefits and give those people access to free prescriptions and dental care too ?


    Because most people want to build their own future not leach off the government, it can depend on the way you were brought up and the value your parents put upon working hard.

    lollypoplee

    ​you are clearly missing the point of the post.why are the the government … ​you are clearly missing the point of the post.why are the the government happy to stop paying £50 a week tax credits in favour of paying £175 a week unemployment benefits and give those people access to free prescriptions and dental care too ?



    B/c there are always people at the bottom of society who will never do anything, that is a given; said and done.

    If you can make £11K on your own business you can get out there and do a full weeks work and earn a decent living and not need to have money from the government.

    Its about moving flip floppers and half workers on to a full time job that is better for everyone. Which is what they are doing in this case.

    Original Poster

    another example is last year there were thousands of police officers made redundant ?
    im not sure of a police officers salary but lets just guess at £28000.
    he would have been taxed on his wages and provide a service to the public .
    they make him redundant, so unemployed he now claims full benefits and housing benefit?
    how can that make any sense !
    provide a service and pay tax or sit on your bum, pay nothing in and have everything paid for you !

    Original Poster

    groenleader

    B/c there are always people at the bottom of society who will never do … B/c there are always people at the bottom of society who will never do anything, that is a given; said and done.If you can make £11K on your own business you can get out there and do a full weeks work and earn a decent living and not need to have money from the government. Its about moving flip floppers and half workers on to a full time job that is better for everyone. Which is what they are doing in this case.



    ​so i bet you dont receive 1 penny from the government then !
    im surprised our country is skint considering there are people like you ONLY paying in and never getting anything back.
    you must have been born into royalty to have never once claimed ANY benefit !
    never to have been unemployed due to being made redundant. never had to go on the sick due to illness. never been put on short time at work !
    god your lucky !!!

    Original Poster

    davewave

    Because most people want to build their own future not leach off the … Because most people want to build their own future not leach off the government, it can depend on the way you were brought up and the value your parents put upon working hard.



    ​you should be a politician ! they also are very good at NOT answering the question and putting their point across and not making any sense

    lollypoplee

    ​so i bet you dont receive 1 penny from the government then !im surprised … ​so i bet you dont receive 1 penny from the government then !im surprised our country is skint considering there are people like you ONLY paying in and never getting anything back.you must have been born into royalty to have never once claimed ANY benefit !never to have been unemployed due to being made redundant. never had to go on the sick due to illness. never been put on short time at work !god your lucky !!!



    Indeed, one must be thankful for any luck they have in life.

    lollypoplee

    ​you should be a politician ! they also are very good at NOT answering t … ​you should be a politician ! they also are very good at NOT answering the question and putting their point across and not making any sense



    ​because this isn't a binary question for someone who no longer receives a tax credit.

    many options... they could change jobs, build the business, go abroad, move city, promote their business, all the while accepting a higher and increasing zero tax personal tax allowance each year!

    lollypoplee

    ​so i bet you dont receive 1 penny from the government then !im surprised … ​so i bet you dont receive 1 penny from the government then !im surprised our country is skint considering there are people like you ONLY paying in and never getting anything back.you must have been born into royalty to have never once claimed ANY benefit !never to have been unemployed due to being made redundant. never had to go on the sick due to illness. never been put on short time at work !god your lucky !!!



    ​lots of people have never received benefits!

    Original Poster

    davewave

    ​lots of people have never received benefits!



    not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in the form of working tax or family tax credits.
    its nice to speak to a millionaire on hukd that has never received 1 penny from the state !
    i feel truly blessed to be speaking to you

    My calculation of a person working at minimum wage gets annual gross pay of around ~£11,000 - £12,000, do he get working tax credit too? which is very similar income to your brother as self-employed?!

    lollypoplee

    not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in … not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in the form of working tax or family tax credits. its nice to speak to a millionaire on hukd that has never received 1 penny from the state !i feel truly blessed to be speaking to you​



    ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax credits or council tax reduction.

    i'm far from a millionaire, ive just been working since i turned 16.

    Original Poster

    RAFAVDV

    Now we know why the vans are white, they are all covered in … Now we know why the vans are white, they are all covered in snowflakes....You want Brexit, then pay for it.



    ​In English please !
    that makes no sense to me.

    lollypoplee

    ​In English please ! that makes no sense to me.


    Wrong thread

    Original Poster

    adamspencer95

    ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax c … ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax credits or council tax reduction.i'm far from a millionaire, ive just been working since i turned 16.



    ​honestly Adam im really happy for you mate. its people like yourself that hopefully will make our country great again.
    its difficult for a 16 year old to get a job straight from school.
    thank you for your post, i stand corrected.

    I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in the UK, rather than have millions working to many hours and then millions doing nothing, then it would be more fair if everyone worked around 20 - 25 hours a week. Share the work load out across the country, and then all the unemployed benefits can then be used to top up everyone's pay.

    Edited by: "POWYSWALES" 10th Mar

    Original Poster

    POWYSWALES

    I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in … I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in the UK, rather than have millions working to many hours and then millions doing nothing, then it would be more fair if everyone worked around 20 - 25 hours a week. Share the work load out across the country, and then all the unemployed benefits can then be used to top up everyone's pay.



    ​I agree with you mate, but im sure "groenleader or davewave" will tell us why we are wrong in a minute !
    Edited by: "lollypoplee" 10th Mar

    lollypoplee

    not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in … not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in the form of working tax or family tax credits. its nice to speak to a millionaire on hukd that has never received 1 penny from the state !i feel truly blessed to be speaking to you​



    ​am I the only one here then that's hasn't received benefits?

    lollypoplee

    ​In English please ! that makes no sense to me.



    ​corse it did.

    POWYSWALES

    I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in … I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in the UK, rather than have millions working to many hours and then millions doing nothing, then it would be more fair if everyone worked around 20 - 25 hours a week. Share the work load out across the country, and then all the unemployed benefits can then be used to top up everyone's pay.



    ​commerce fluctuates

    davewave

    I read your post. Tax credits - isn't that related to how much tax you're … I read your post. Tax credits - isn't that related to how much tax you're paying/earnings? Please be polite.



    ​u are a unique one davewave I am definitely beginning to think u either have a split personality or 2 people or using the account u do this a lot on people's question first go in with a silly attack then ask questions about the question which u don't know anything about. you can always do the second part first. ask the question to begin with without trying be a pompous ****.

    Banned

    if his income is low he shut be getting working tax credits. I thought you do regardless if you earn up to 26k??

    something has gone wrong,. tell him to appeal because last year they stopped 1000s of people's working tax etc because of this American tax office who's calculations were wrong, search it tho because I can't remember the full story.


    Banned

    MynameisM

    ​u are a unique one davewave I am definitely beginning to think u either h … ​u are a unique one davewave I am definitely beginning to think u either have a split personality or 2 people or using the account u do this a lot on people's question first go in with a silly attack then ask questions about the question which u don't know anything about. you can always do the second part first. ask the question to begin with without trying be a pompous ****.



    ​don't worry his not the only one. about 10 accounts on misc are fake!

    I think davewave has changed a little meaning his improved his knowledge. must be retaking his GCSEs

    unquestioned

    Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and … Why doesn't he do what everyone else has to? Work more to earn more and not be a leech on society? The increased income will improve quality of life in the end.Also, it's spelt course.



    ​deliberately being nasty?

    Original Poster

    sofiasar

    if his income is low he shut be getting working tax credits. I thought … if his income is low he shut be getting working tax credits. I thought you do regardless if you earn up to 26k?? something has gone wrong,. tell him to appeal because last year they stopped 1000s of people's working tax etc because of this American tax office who's calculations were wrong, search it tho because I can't remember the full story.



    ​yes he was getting working tax credits and in 2014 the tax credits were used to bump your low earnings up to a living wage.
    but then George Osborne decided to scrap them and lost his case in the house of Lords so decided to change the rules of self employed working tax credits to you having to prove you are working towards making a profit ?
    to me £11000 is a profit but as lots of people know, the tax credits office is like GOD. you wont change their mind once they have spoken !
    thank you for your post

    lollypoplee

    not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in … not many ! even the prime minister and politicians receive tax credits in the form of working tax or family tax credits. its nice to speak to a millionaire on hukd that has never received 1 penny from the state !i feel truly blessed to be speaking to you​



    ​makes you wonder why they are penny pinch in on here!

    adamspencer95

    ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax c … ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax credits or council tax reduction.i'm far from a millionaire, ive just been working since i turned 16.



    ​Your not entitled till 25

    adamspencer95

    ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax c … ​im 22 and ive never had any benefits from the government, not even tax credits or council tax reduction.i'm far from a millionaire, ive just been working since i turned 16.



    ​22 year old thinkin u know about life X)

    POWYSWALES

    I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in … I always thought that there is not enough full time jobs for everyone in the UK, rather than have millions working to many hours and then millions doing nothing, then it would be more fair if everyone worked around 20 - 25 hours a week. Share the work load out across the country, and then all the unemployed benefits can then be used to top up everyone's pay.



    ​good thinking you should work in gov.

    davewave

    ​am I the only one here then that's hasn't received benefits?



    ​more or less and you will when you are old enough to be accessing them.

    ​u may have been lucky to not have to claim or u may not have known that u were entitled to claim. let see at 16 if u were employed by one of the greedy firms at the minimum wage around 3.95 pounds a hour when u were 16 u that would be around 140/150 pounds a week for a full time job. living in ur own accommodation and paying all the bills etc etc would be very difficult why should u been penalised for big young and working and living on ur own that's why the tax credits are for its all jolly and good if u earned more and didn't need claim but if u don't earn much it is needed by people.
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