Telford grooming gang.

44
Found 12th MarEdited by:"J4GG4"
thesun.co.uk/new…ng/

Or for those that prefer the Beeb.
bbc.co.uk/new…805


Allegations report back to the 1980s. Thats over a 40 year period.

up to 1000 children abused during this time frame.

A 14 year old fell pregnant 6 times.




N.B no political or religious discussion allowed. Some members will likely go all out to close this news article by breaking the rules. Mods can kindly remove those offenders posts rather than letting them get their own way.
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splender5 m ago

There is no need to try too hard to be courteous and respectful with …There is no need to try too hard to be courteous and respectful with comments to me, just click on "like" on my posts will do.


Reported for like begging
44 Comments
Unfortunately this seems to be every town and city in the UK, with possibly a massive amount yet to be uncovered.

Mirror yesterday, google.co.uk/amp…amp
Edited by: "shadey12" 12th Mar
Has taken far too long to be exposed. Shame on those in authority who turned a blind eye.
and Im sure this is only the beginning
There are 1,000 children and the number of people in contact with them is at least 10,000 professionals, semi-skilled and unskilled from all the involved agencies to all children homes' carers? (On an assumption that each abused children had at least 10 people around them who had done safeguarding or could have done safeguarding.)

IMHO: A critical factor is who were and are paid to do a job and be accountable as provided for under the law,

A second critical factor is how our attitude towards the child victims (as is for suspect/criminals) had evolved since 1970s.

and a third critical factor was/is what thoughts/mindset/bias/prejudice/believe/fear that these people (10,000+) had about the (alleged or otherwise) suspects and the (alleged or otherwise) victims that prevented them from acting using the law :-

The relevant law is:-

Children Act 1989 amended 2004
Education Act 2002
The Childcare Act 2006
Health and Social Care Act 2012
Children and Families Act 2014
Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006
The Children and Social Work Act 2017
Children and Young Persons Act 2008

plus

NSPCC
Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel
Working together to safeguard children (2015)

My conclusion: the "turned a blind eye" has multiple systemic root causes, Telford is one of numerous place names. No doubt the experts would know what these root causes are. I don't know.
splender12 m ago

There are 1,000 children and the number of people in contact with them is …There are 1,000 children and the number of people in contact with them is at least 10,000 professionals, semi-skilled and unskilled from all the involved agencies to all children homes' carers? (On an assumption that each abused children had at least 10 people around them who had done safeguarding or could have done safeguarding.)IMHO: A critical factor is who were and are paid to do a job and be accountable as provided for under the law, A second critical factor is how our attitude towards the child victims (as is for suspect/criminals) had evolved since 1970s.and a third critical factor was/is what thoughts/mindset/bias/prejudice/believe/fear that these people (10,000+) had about the (alleged or otherwise) suspects and the (alleged or otherwise) victims that prevented them from acting using the law :-The relevant law is:-Children Act 1989 amended 2004Education Act 2002 The Childcare Act 2006Health and Social Care Act 2012Children and Families Act 2014Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006 The Children and Social Work Act 2017Children and Young Persons Act 2008plusNSPCCChild Safeguarding Practice Review Panel Working together to safeguard children (2015) My conclusion: the "turned a blind eye" has multiple systemic root causes, Telford is one of numerous place names. No doubt the experts would know what these root causes are. I don't know.


Here we go again. Precious little, if any, mention of the perpetrators. Quelle surprise.
I just dont understand how a community can allow this to happen. I mean i was listening to lbc today and one guy was saying how a carer in like a care home for these kids used to see what was going on but just couldnt do anything. Its just sad. May the people who was responsible get groomed in jail and see how it feels being raped
This is sad.
Saturn2 h, 18 m ago

Here we go again. Precious little, if any, mention of the perpetrators. …Here we go again. Precious little, if any, mention of the perpetrators. Quelle surprise.



You can mention as much as you like mate, the floor is yours, within the rules, go!

Rather than directing your attention to me, you have a go and direct your points about the perpetrators here.

My approach in above:-

1. Mentioning perpetrators here will be unlikely to affect the behaviour of perpetrators. And is unlikely to benefit the enforcement action, witnesses coming forward, etc. If you believed otherwise, there are merits for us to mention the perpetrators more, why and how? If you shared your merits with us, we could consider here.

2. Mentioning the enforcement, care support services and law; identifying the critical factors here, may assist the discovery of perpertrators and we as members of the public, may hold these agencies and local authorities to account under the statutory provisions, where we believe that they are turning a blind eye. This is likely to be helpful to past, current and potential victims, as people here may possibly assist in the reduction of crime by speaking out.

For example, say you suspect a perpetrator, you can now write formal letters directing at the responsible agencies, quoting the relevant statutory provision. But if you suspect a perpetrator and then just mention the perpetrator here, your action is not going to help the victims (in any event, any named person, will be deleted by the mods).

You do want to help the victims, or are you not?
Saturn2 h, 36 m ago

Here we go again. Precious little, if any, mention of the perpetrators. …Here we go again. Precious little, if any, mention of the perpetrators. Quelle surprise.



A simplified version of my long reply above:-

I am here to assist the victims and to prevent further breaches by identifying how we, as members of the public, can assist the agencies and authorities against the perpetrators.

I am not here to assist the perpetrators, so I don't mention them much, but you may choose to do so, the floor is yours.
splender5 m ago

A simplified version of my long reply above:-I am here to assist the …A simplified version of my long reply above:-I am here to assist the victims and to prevent further breaches by identifying how we, as members of the public, can assist the agencies and authorities against the perpetrators.I am not here to assist the perpetrators, so I don't mention them much, but you may choose to do so, the floor is yours.


I think that you may have missed the point of this thread.
RonChew16 m ago

I think that you may have missed the point of this thread.



I believe the point is that with the benefit of hindsight from @J4GG4 post, we are now better placed to assist the agencies and authorities with our manpower and whistleblowing so to prevent any similar crimes from happening beyond a unique incident in our town, preferably zero.
splender1 h, 18 m ago

You can mention as much as you like mate, the floor is yours, within the …You can mention as much as you like mate, the floor is yours, within the rules, go! Rather than directing your attention to me, you have a go and direct your points about the perpetrators here.My approach in above:-1. Mentioning perpetrators here will be unlikely to affect the behaviour of perpetrators. And is unlikely to benefit the enforcement action, witnesses coming forward, etc. If you believed otherwise, there are merits for us to mention the perpetrators more, why and how? If you shared your merits with us, we could consider here.2. Mentioning the enforcement, care support services and law; identifying the critical factors here, may assist the discovery of perpertrators and we as members of the public, may hold these agencies and local authorities to account under the statutory provisions, where we believe that they are turning a blind eye. This is likely to be helpful to past, current and potential victims, as people here may possibly assist in the reduction of crime by speaking out. For example, say you suspect a perpetrator, you can now write formal letters directing at the responsible agencies, quoting the relevant statutory provision. But if you suspect a perpetrator and then just mention the perpetrator here, your action is not going to help the victims (in any event, any named person, will be deleted by the mods).You do want to help the victims, or are you not?


You should research Maajid Nawaz. His take on what is happening around the country is fascinating.
splender6 h, 9 m ago

I wouldn't , if I were you, be fascinated by him and him alone, he has a …I wouldn't , if I were you, be fascinated by him and him alone, he has a brillant analytical mind.One/you should be fascinated by a large number of additional sources. They are:-With regard to Islamic and Muslim studies, one should listen to academics on related subject matters at universities such as the LSE, Oxford, Cambridge and Durham, just to name a few. These are on university web sites or on Youtube. Then you should also research the same at Harvard, Stanford etc.. as indeed beyond globally.Beyond the political and religious fields, you should also reference organisational and social psychology, organisational governance and corporate responsibility.Finally you should also reference cultural, gender and socio-economic studies for impact of different social and legal justice for different class/groups in the UK.


Of course one ought not to be fascinated by Maajid Nawaz and him alone, but no one said that. He is in a unique position and what he has to say is hard to contradict.
On topic, I was curious about the quantification of the problem (and then the resources to deal with it), viz. the known number of suspects in Telford.

Does anyone here know of a credible source on the known number of suspects in gangs (as well as those acting as individuals and in pairs) in Telford? The number of suspects to be charged and go to trial in 2018, and 2019? Neither the Sun nor the BBC and other links on the net reported on these numbers.
OllieSt1 h, 14 m ago

Of course one ought not to be fascinated by Maajid Nawaz and him alone, …Of course one ought not to be fascinated by Maajid Nawaz and him alone, but no one said that. He is in a unique position and what he has to say is hard to contradict.


Sure.

Edit:
As I know of him through listening to LBC, then credits where credits due, the other 7 presenters are also brilliant and hard to contradict without substantive evidence based research, analysis and logical reasoning on any controversial topics (such as child abuse).
Edited by: "splender" 13th Mar
splender45 m ago

On topic, I was curious about the quantification of the problem (and then …On topic, I was curious about the quantification of the problem (and then the resources to deal with it), viz. the known number of suspects in Telford. Does anyone here know of a credible source on the known number of suspects in gangs (as well as those acting as individuals and in pairs) in Telford? The number of suspects to be charged and go to trial in 2018, and 2019? Neither the Sun nor the BBC and other links on the net reported on these numbers.


I don't have figures to hand, but Nawaz's concerns were that Telford is the worst case in Britain so far. That is taking into consideration the population of Telford, the length of time involved, the amount offences, together with the number of suspects.

In any case it's grim news.
OllieSt12 m ago

I don't have figures to hand, but Nawaz's concerns were that Telford is …I don't have figures to hand, but Nawaz's concerns were that Telford is the worst case in Britain so far. That is taking into consideration the population of Telford, the length of time involved, the amount offences, together with the number of suspects.In any case it's grim news.


Three girls are believed to have been murdered too, maybe more.
splender12 h, 22 m ago

You can mention as much as you like mate, the floor is yours, within the …You can mention as much as you like mate, the floor is yours, within the rules, go! Rather than directing your attention to me, you have a go and direct your points about the perpetrators here.My approach in above:-1. Mentioning perpetrators here will be unlikely to affect the behaviour of perpetrators. And is unlikely to benefit the enforcement action, witnesses coming forward, etc. If you believed otherwise, there are merits for us to mention the perpetrators more, why and how? If you shared your merits with us, we could consider here.2. Mentioning the enforcement, care support services and law; identifying the critical factors here, may assist the discovery of perpertrators and we as members of the public, may hold these agencies and local authorities to account under the statutory provisions, where we believe that they are turning a blind eye. This is likely to be helpful to past, current and potential victims, as people here may possibly assist in the reduction of crime by speaking out. For example, say you suspect a perpetrator, you can now write formal letters directing at the responsible agencies, quoting the relevant statutory provision. But if you suspect a perpetrator and then just mention the perpetrator here, your action is not going to help the victims (in any event, any named person, will be deleted by the mods).You do want to help the victims, or are you not?


Having had 2 courteous and respectful replies fail to make it onto the thread, I must leave you to make progress on this matter without my input, splender. I post this in order that you do not think I have been rude in failing to respond.
splender14 h, 3 m ago

A simplified version of my long reply above:-I am here to assist the …A simplified version of my long reply above:-I am here to assist the victims and to prevent further breaches by identifying how we, as members of the public, can assist the agencies and authorities against the perpetrators.I am not here to assist the perpetrators, so I don't mention them much, but you may choose to do so, the floor is yours.



All decent people (or at least all people who strive to be decent) are obviously appalled at these despicable crimes.

There are reasons they are appalled.



Whilst it's absolutely right that we as a society address these crimes and deal with them, I can't help but suspect the reason it keeps happening is nobody is addressing the bigger picture and dealing with it.

The victims must of course be given every help they need, but the fact is this crime keeps happening, and shall keep happening until such times as we address the bigger picture and deal with it (and I am here talking more about mankind than any section of it).
Edited by: "tryn2help" 13th Mar
After the Rotherham grooming gang scandal nothing surprises me anymore, It seems if you've got a different colour skin or religion you're treated differently from other unlawful criminals. They're too scared to offend anyone or be labelled a racist etc.. Sadly the criminals have more rights than the victims. There isn't an easy solution but we should all be treated fairly regardless of our race or religion etc.. One rule for all, No bending them to suit.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 13th Mar
.MUFC.5 h, 25 m ago

After the Rotherham grooming gang scandal nothing surprises me anymore, It …After the Rotherham grooming gang scandal nothing surprises me anymore, It seems if you've got a different colour skin or religion you're treated differently from other unlawful criminals. They're too scared to offend anyone or be labelled a racist etc.. Sadly the criminals have more rights than the victims. There isn't an easy solution but we should all be treated fairly regardless of our race or religion etc.. One rule for all, No bending them to suit.



It's ironic that you shout for equality when this whole mess is a direct result of people shouting for equality.

Well intentioned people listened to them and brought in things like 'positive' discrimination in the massively misguided hope of bringing about said equality.

What they actually brought about was a tail wagging the dog situation.

But, all power was eventually given to it because the well meaning people were convinced it was the right thing to do.

Nobody dared oppose the all powerful drive for equality for fear of being labelled racist - and look where it got us.


The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, trodden by the well meaning, but desperately short-sighted and deeply dim people.
.MUFC.21 h, 6 m ago

After the Rotherham grooming gang scandal nothing surprises me anymore, It …After the Rotherham grooming gang scandal nothing surprises me anymore, It seems if you've got a different colour skin or religion you're treated differently from other unlawful criminals. They're too scared to offend anyone or be labelled a racist etc.. Sadly the criminals have more rights than the victims. There isn't an easy solution but we should all be treated fairly regardless of our race or religion etc.. One rule for all, No bending them to suit.



The chief cause of exponetial growth rate of crimes on child abuse is the application of inequality of safeguarding and protected by decision makers in position of authority and turning a blind eye by most bystanders.

May I just leave it as, a child at Newport Girls' achool would have been fairer treated by adults around them as external agencies than a child in a Telford care home. Some may name this as societal discrimination in the way different children getting access to children rights and equality in social services and police public service. This was the legacy of children homes from Barnado's in the 1970s to recent times.

These historical 40-year long, well publicised cases of child abuse, are founded on an exponential growth in neglect (of children welfare and safeguarding).

One victim not protected, growth rate of 11% per year, grows to circa 100 victims in 40 years.

One suspect not caught by enforcement, growth rate of 11% per year, encouraged by a climate of "I can get away with this", grows to 100 suspects in 40 years.

It is this neglect of need to arrest and charge which allowed growth and spread. No decision maker in enforcement could and should have used an excuse of fear or political correctness. Anyone could have just whacked tomes of all case files on the Crown Prosecution Service or before the TWC Executive Committee. It was ever so easy to do, as easy as falling off a log.

Anyone could be an enforcement officer or a social case manager, just whack 100 case files on the desk of executives (police, council) of 100 mixed characteristic suspects. Then if found that the executives would not choose to arrest on the merits of the evidence of the destardly acts but instead choose a specific pattern of people for enforcement, then these executives would be sacked, like tomorrow ( perhaps by whistleblow to the newspapers, which in this case is so easy to do with tabloids). And the whistleblower would get outstanding contribution awards, a promotion and pay rise, perhaps even an MBE/OBE like Jayne Senior had.
Saturn13th Mar

Having had 2 courteous and respectful replies fail to make it onto the …Having had 2 courteous and respectful replies fail to make it onto the thread, I must leave you to make progress on this matter without my input, splender. I post this in order that you do not think I have been rude in failing to respond.



There is no need to try too hard to be courteous and respectful with comments to me, just click on "like" on my posts will do.
splender5 m ago

There is no need to try too hard to be courteous and respectful with …There is no need to try too hard to be courteous and respectful with comments to me, just click on "like" on my posts will do.


Reported for like begging
tryn2help16 h, 55 m ago

It's ironic that you shout for equality when this whole mess is a direct …It's ironic that you shout for equality when this whole mess is a direct result of people shouting for equality. Well intentioned people listened to them and brought in things like 'positive' discrimination in the massively misguided hope of bringing about said equality.What they actually brought about was a tail wagging the dog situation. But, all power was eventually given to it because the well meaning people were convinced it was the right thing to do.Nobody dared oppose the all powerful drive for equality for fear of being labelled racist - and look where it got us.The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, trodden by the well meaning, but desperately short-sighted and deeply dim people.


You can't have equality when peoples' standards and believes and traditions differ so much, better to keep apart.
airfix4 h, 46 m ago

You can't have equality when peoples' standards and believes and …You can't have equality when peoples' standards and believes and traditions differ so much, better to keep apart.



They never wanted equality - they don't want to be like us - they only sought to use the claim of inequality as a type of race card which would deem them untouchable - and that's exactly what they got.
airfix7 h, 5 m ago

You can't have equality when peoples' standards and believes and …You can't have equality when peoples' standards and believes and traditions differ so much, better to keep apart.



tryn2help2 h, 18 m ago

They never wanted equality - they don't want to be like us - they only …They never wanted equality - they don't want to be like us - they only sought to use the claim of inequality as a type of race card which would deem them untouchable - and that's exactly what they got.


Everyone needs and has a right to equality and personal choice. Anyone can shout for both at the same time.

As to using "equality" as a race card-effectively, this is a post hoc fallacy and is a myth, an excuse to shirk decision maker's involvement and responsibility.

Take note that the population of Telford is 94% white. There was never any genuine weight of fear for senior command in high office, any executive who slapped tens to a hundred names on the table with hundreds of case files (wheel barrow them all to a press conference or wheel barrow them to the Crown Prosection Service) would have blasted any race-card to dust and received overwhelming local and national public support and praise. There was something else for this cause of neglect, this will take an independent inquiry to find out officially.
Edited by: "splender" 14th Mar
splender53 m ago

Everyone needs and has a right to equality and personal choice. Anyone can …Everyone needs and has a right to equality and personal choice. Anyone can shout for both at the same time.As to using "equality" as a race card-effectively, this is a post hoc fallacy and is a myth, an excuse to shirk decision maker's involvement and responsibility.Take note that the population of Telford is 94% white. There was never any genuine weight of fear for senior command in high office, any executive who slapped tens to a hundred names on the table with hundreds of case files (wheel barrow them all to a press conference or wheel barrow them to the Crown Prosection Service) would have blasted any race-card to dust and received overwhelming local and national public support and praise. There was something else for this cause of neglect, this will take an independent inquiry to find out officially.


Depends what personal choice means, if it's immoral or against the law then NO
airfix1 h, 1 m ago

Depends what personal choice means, if it's immoral or against the law …Depends what personal choice means, if it's immoral or against the law then NO



Suspects make personal choices, all law breakers do this, in the main, it is up to the command and control person(s) to apply the law, supported by the local entire population. Which is the core issue once again.
splender3 h, 37 m ago

Everyone needs and has a right to equality and personal choice. Anyone can …Everyone needs and has a right to equality and personal choice. Anyone can shout for both at the same time.As to using "equality" as a race card-effectively, this is a post hoc fallacy and is a myth, an excuse to shirk decision maker's involvement and responsibility.Take note that the population of Telford is 94% white. There was never any genuine weight of fear for senior command in high office, any executive who slapped tens to a hundred names on the table with hundreds of case files (wheel barrow them all to a press conference or wheel barrow them to the Crown Prosection Service) would have blasted any race-card to dust and received overwhelming local and national public support and praise. There was something else for this cause of neglect, this will take an independent inquiry to find out officially.



I don't think it helps to get bogged down in any one case or particular series of cases, as it could detract from addressing the root of the bigger picture (which must be addressed if humanity is to have any hope of impacting this ongoing crime).

But, in regards to this particular criminal event I wouldn't want to say much more than I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss anything, nor would I so easily underestimate the power of 1% far less the power of 6% (hence tail wagging dog), and yes, certain things could have been done - but they weren't - and that's a harsh reality, a harsh reality that I agree demands an independent inquiry.

Nevertheless, even if we ever arrive at a scenario that answers every question re the above series of criminal events, it shall not address the bigger picture of why sexual abuse is and has always been prevalent everywhere in the world - and with all due respect, I would suggest that's the more urgent question for mankind.
tryn2help54 m ago

I don't think it helps to get bogged down in any one case or particular …I don't think it helps to get bogged down in any one case or particular series of cases, as it could detract from addressing the root of the bigger picture (which must be addressed if humanity is to have any hope of impacting this ongoing crime).But, in regards to this particular criminal event I wouldn't want to say much more than I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss anything, nor would I so easily underestimate the power of 1% far less the power of 6% (hence tail wagging dog), and yes, certain things could have been done - but they weren't - and that's a harsh reality, a harsh reality that I agree demands an independent inquiry.Nevertheless, even if we ever arrive at a scenario that answers every question re the above series of criminal events, it shall not address the bigger picture of why sexual abuse is and has always been prevalent everywhere in the world - and with all due respect, I would suggest that's the more urgent question for mankind.



"nor would I so easily underestimate the power of 1% far less the power of 6%", I quote you, so likewise, I say, do not underestimate the power of 0.1% far less the power of 1%, ad infinitum.

I think I understood you.

Your tail wagging the dog has its tail wagged by its tip and which in turn is wagged by its hair....ad infinitum..till it is wagged by its human genome, quod erat demonstrandum.
splender21 m ago

"nor would I so easily underestimate the power of 1% far less the power of …"nor would I so easily underestimate the power of 1% far less the power of 6%", I quote you, so likewise, I say, do not underestimate the power of 0.1% far less the power of 1%, ad infinitum. I think I understood you.Your tail wagging the dog has its tail wagged by its tip and which in turn is wagged by its hair....ad infinitum..till it is wagged by its human genome, quod erat demonstrandum.



I had hoped not to get bogged down, preferring to address the bigger picture of prevalent sexual abuse.

We've seen it throughout history, in every culture, all over the world, and we continue to see it - why?
tryn2help7 h, 48 m ago

I had hoped not to get bogged down, preferring to address the bigger …I had hoped not to get bogged down, preferring to address the bigger picture of prevalent sexual abuse. We've seen it throughout history, in every culture, all over the world, and we continue to see it - why?



We demonstrated a satisfactory answer already, using your concept of, the tail wagging the dog. The generalised global answer is the human genome, the tiniest thing that controls the whole person, a version of which is the human folly, aplicable to suspects, victims, care officers, bystanders, parents...everyone in contact or could have made contact with each other in this scenario.

That's why we continue to see what we see. That's the bigger picture. An independent inquiry may detail some or all of the human folly.
splender31 m ago

We demonstrated a satisfactory answer already, using your concept of, the …We demonstrated a satisfactory answer already, using your concept of, the tail wagging the dog. The generalised global answer is the human genome, the tiniest thing that controls the whole person, a version of which is the human folly, aplicable to suspects, victims, care officers, bystanders, parents...everyone in contact or could have made contact with each other in this scenario.That's why we continue to see what we see. That's the bigger picture. An independent inquiry may detail some or all of the human folly.


Turning a blind eye to known child abuse is criminal behaviour and should not, in my opinion, be referred to as human folly, it does a huge disservice to the young victims, do you agree?
This week is actually Operation Makesafe Week launched by the Met. Hope this helps anyone impacted..

met.police.uk/abo…fe/

Operation Makesafe has been developed in partnership with London’s boroughs to raise awareness of child sexual exploitation in the business community, such as hotel groups, taxi companies and licensed premises. Following the success of the pilot run in the borough of Waltham Forest, Operation Makesafe has now been rolled out across all London boroughs.


Our aimsThe purpose of the campaign is to help business owners and their employees identify potential victims of child sexual exploitation and, where necessary, alert police officers to intervene prior to any young person coming to harm.


What’s involved
Businesses such as hotels, licensed premises and taxi companies are being provided with awareness training to help them recognise the signs of child sexual exploitation. They are directed to call 101, quoting ‘Operation Makesafe’, should they suspect suspicious behaviour or activity on their premises or in their vehicles.

These businesses are also being provided with campaign posters and training sheets (see below) to raise awareness amongst their customers and staff.

Met call handlers have received specialist training to identify calls relating to child sexual exploitation and provide the appropriate advice and police response.
davewave49 m ago

Turning a blind eye to known child abuse is criminal behaviour and should …Turning a blind eye to known child abuse is criminal behaviour and should not, in my opinion, be referred to as human folly, it does a huge disservice to the young victims, do you agree?


My short answer:-

A generalised human folly in this scenario is the "human genome" of the entire mix of interactions of all involved or could have got involved across the world (this was the discussion of @tryn2help and I). What I wrote is in a totally different concept/layer comprising of all component parts, which is different to what you just asked me, which is a specific component part in isolation. There is no agreement possible.

My longer answer to assist you:

I wrote about the top layer concept, that embrace all (in my reply to @tryn2help , we discussed "the bigger picture", "the mankind", "the world", "why" for a global situation).

However, you disregarded our dialogue's entire top layer view of everyone, and then you asked me a totally irrelevant question that does not fit in this top layer view. Yours is a logical fallacy, just because that there is a generalised global concept for all, it does not follow this concept can be used for each individual in the world without additional detail qualifying the global concept.

Therefore in order to assist you in your specific question on victims, because you cherry picked a small subsetof the global humanity, I am just a referencing service here to assist you, which is:-

You would do yourself a huge service by reading up on the net and if necessary go to Telford Wrekin Council and Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council, and the independent police watchdog, Professor Alexis Jay's report, on what others had said about the victims and of their opinion of them, do Freedom of Information Request if you like to get at the truth. Then you answer for yourself what is human folly and its virtue of application.
splender4 h, 20 m ago

We demonstrated a satisfactory answer already, using your concept of, the …We demonstrated a satisfactory answer already, using your concept of, the tail wagging the dog. The generalised global answer is the human genome, the tiniest thing that controls the whole person, a version of which is the human folly, aplicable to suspects, victims, care officers, bystanders, parents...everyone in contact or could have made contact with each other in this scenario.That's why we continue to see what we see. That's the bigger picture. An independent inquiry may detail some or all of the human folly.



If I'm understanding you correctly you're more or less saying people are genetically predisposed/programmed to this criminal behaviour?

You'd also have to be suggesting in the absence of societal laws mankind would simply revert to a 'natural' law of strongest-take-what-they-want?

I imagine you'd need to be looking at the role of procreation and the provided sex drive to accommodate procreation as being primary factors in said criminal behaviour?




It's an interesting take, but the fact children and same sex are often the victims, suggests procreation is not the driving factor, nor is it a genetical issue.





Thanks to the media we are now seeing an epidemic of all forms of widespread sexual abuse being brought to our attention. i.e. political circles, acting circles, sporting circles, religious circles, workplaces, schools - in fact absolutely everywhere in absolutely every society.

And, the driving factor appears not to be genetics, but people abusing their more powerful position over their victims.

It's an abuse of power.




Which brings us back to; 'Why?'
tryn2help2 h, 16 m ago

If I'm understanding you correctly you're more or less saying people are …If I'm understanding you correctly you're more or less saying people are genetically predisposed/programmed to this criminal behaviour?You'd also have to be suggesting in the absence of societal laws mankind would simply revert to a 'natural' law of strongest-take-what-they-want?I imagine you'd need to be looking at the role of procreation and the provided sex drive to accommodate procreation as being primary factors in said criminal behaviour?It's an interesting take, but the fact children and same sex are often the victims, suggests procreation is not the driving factor, nor is it a genetical issue.Thanks to the media we are now seeing an epidemic of all forms of widespread sexual abuse being brought to our attention. i.e. political circles, acting circles, sporting circles, religious circles, workplaces, schools - in fact absolutely everywhere in absolutely every society.And, the driving factor appears not to be genetics, but people abusing their more powerful position over their victims. It's an abuse of power.Which brings us back to; 'Why?'

Since you still ask why. I used the human genome as an extension from your "tail wagging the dog" expression.

In a root cause analysis,the top level cause is the "human genome" in my opinion. The answer as to why is to be found in the human innateness (DNA) + other post-natal factors in development into adults. (Because you said the scope is mankind)

A person starts off with innateness at birth, then the post-natal factors : environment, senses, socialisation, knowledge and understanding of the world. etc. These are the second level causes, and then there are further layers of causes ( a hierachical structure of causes ).
splender8 h, 34 m ago

Since you still ask why. I used the human genome as an extension from your …Since you still ask why. I used the human genome as an extension from your "tail wagging the dog" expression.In a root cause analysis,the top level cause is the "human genome" in my opinion. The answer as to why is to be found in the human innateness (DNA) + other post-natal factors in development into adults. (Because you said the scope is mankind)A person starts off with innateness at birth, then the post-natal factors : environment, senses, socialisation, knowledge and understanding of the world. etc. These are the second level causes, and then there are further layers of causes ( a hierachical structure of causes ).



Similarities there with a psychological approach suggesting innate qualities could be influenced by 'learned' qualities?

Just as a person with the innate quality of speech brought up in say a Japanese environment would be expected to speak Japanese for no other reason than that was the environment they were brought up in - thus 'learned' behaviour?

Are you suggesting then that persons brought up in an environment wherein sexual deviance was acceptable they'd be more likely to be sexually deviant?
tryn2help2 h, 43 m ago

Similarities there with a psychological approach suggesting innate …Similarities there with a psychological approach suggesting innate qualities could be influenced by 'learned' qualities?Just as a person with the innate quality of speech brought up in say a Japanese environment would be expected to speak Japanese for no other reason than that was the environment they were brought up in - thus 'learned' behaviour?Are you suggesting then that persons brought up in an environment wherein sexual deviance was acceptable they'd be more likely to be sexually deviant?


Each of your first paragraphs contains a question constructed using two mutually exclusive definitions..
The third paragraph has an answer, which is indeterminate based on information given.
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