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    The Death Penalty

    Banned
    Is it no longer possible to construct an argument in favour of it? Is anyone still in favour of it's return?

    93 Comments

    No and yes.

    You get the death penalty for even talking about it on here,

    Original Poster Banned

    tonyg1962;4740895

    You get the death penalty for even talking about it on here,



    Really? It's something that's always an interesting debate because the only arguments in favour of it are usually emotionally driven ones that eschew facts, which is the antithesis of justice in this country.

    murders peodophiles totally in favour of it

    Seppuku

    Original Poster Banned

    cherishu2;4740907

    murders peodophiles totally in favour of it



    Why? Would you like to see one of the biggest mass murderers this country has ever seen get the death sentence?

    FilthAndFurry;4740925

    Why? Would you like to see one of the biggest mass murderers this country … Why? Would you like to see one of the biggest mass murderers this country has ever seen get the death sentence?



    If we say yes are you going to say something like "tony blair has killed X number of people in the iraq war" ?

    Original Poster Banned

    Titchimp;4740929

    If we say yes are you going to say something like "tony blair has killed … If we say yes are you going to say something like "tony blair has killed X number of people in the iraq war" ?



    Gosh no. That would be inappropriate.

    I'm talking about the person who killed over 215 people in this country. Should he get the death sentence?

    FilthAndFurry;4740905

    Really? It's something that's always an interesting debate because the … Really? It's something that's always an interesting debate because the only arguments in favour of it are usually emotionally driven ones that eschew facts, which is the antithesis of justice in this country.



    Usually emotional? There are plenty of non-emotional arguments, the main example being cost to the country.

    I am against the death penalty, it doesn't prevent any crimes and punishment is not just retribution/revenge.

    IMO I'd say yes in certain circumstances (cases). Don't understand why it doesnt exists ...

    I would be interested to hear why it shouldn't be in place ...

    Original Poster Banned

    pghstochaj;4740946

    Usually emotional? There are plenty of non-emotional arguments, the main … Usually emotional? There are plenty of non-emotional arguments, the main example being cost to the country.I am against the death penalty, it doesn't prevent any crimes and punishment is not just retribution/revenge.



    Cost isn't a factor when you take into account the appeals process.

    The death sentence doesn't work as a deterrent in any way, as proved by the number of inmates on Death Row in the states.

    And its been proved on many occasions the legal system is not infallible, and innocent people do go to jail so for that fact alone we shoudlnt have it.

    An ex colleague of mine, a doctor, was accused of having child porn on his work PC, he was suspended, arrested, shunned by colleagues, his wife left him essentially his life was ruined.
    When the truth finally came out, only after he hired a forensic IT expert and discovered that a guy on the next floor had hacked his pc and used the doctors credit card details to buy porn.
    But it was too late to save the docs good name as "mud sticks" last I heard he had gone to work in south America.

    Original Poster Banned

    tinkerbell28;4740944

    Why are you so interested in getting people into emotional debates, which … Why are you so interested in getting people into emotional debates, which prevoke reaction?As for the question, no I don't agree with it. For a start we don't even have the ability to convict people correctly half the time the judicial system is in such a mess. Secondly I don't like the idea of cold calculated execution. Killing someone as punishment takes us back to the dark ages as far as I am concerned and takes you down to their level in someways.All though I can see why people would want it back as murders/rapists/peadophiles get let off far to lightly in this country. Life should mean life.



    Because I come from a background that believes debating issues is fun. That doesn't mean butting heads, but coming together with differing opinions which you then consider and maybe construct a whole new ideology from.

    Your second part I pretty much totally agree with.

    FilthAndFurry;4740933

    Gosh no. That would be inappropriate.I'm talking about the person who … Gosh no. That would be inappropriate.I'm talking about the person who killed over 215 people in this country. Should he get the death sentence?



    You know he killed himself, right? You need to talk in past tense.

    Original Poster Banned

    Xpenny;4740950

    IMO I'd say yes in certain circumstances (cases). Don't understand why it … IMO I'd say yes in certain circumstances (cases). Don't understand why it doesnt exists ...I would be interested to hear why it shouldn't be in place ...



    DKLS;4740963

    The death sentence doesn't work as a deterrent in any way, as proved by … The death sentence doesn't work as a deterrent in any way, as proved by the number of inmates on Death Row in the states.And its been proved on many occasions the legal system is not infallible, and innocent people do go to jail so for that fact alone we shoudlnt have it.An ex colleague of mine, a doctor, was accused of having child porn on his work PC, he was suspended, arrested, shunned by colleagues, his wife left him essentially his life was ruined. When the truth finally came out, only after he hired a forensic IT expert and discovered that a guy on the next floor had hacked his pc and used the doctors credit card details to buy porn.But it was too late to save the docs good name as "mud sticks" last I heard he had gone to work in south America.

    Is the OP a multi ID ?

    Reminds me of a certain somebody!

    Original Poster Banned

    pghstochaj;4740971

    You know he killed himself, right? You need to talk in past tense.



    So the guilt of what he did was so bad that he would have rather died than spend his life in prison?

    Isn't this the strongest argument in favour of life sentences over a death sentence?

    FilthAndFurry;4740957

    Cost isn't a factor when you take into account the appeals process.



    You're making that up; we have no death penalty in the UK so what are you comparing with? You are limiting yourself.

    Do you not think that similar appeal processes already exist for life in prison?

    FilthAndFurry;4740976

    So the guilt of what he did was so bad that he would have rather died … So the guilt of what he did was so bad that he would have rather died than spend his life in prison?Isn't this the strongest argument in favour of life sentences over a death sentence?



    Wow, you like making jumps. What evidence do you have that he took his life through guilt? What evidence do you have to suggest all people in prison for life feel similar emotions? Nothing.

    Please learn to debate.

    Original Poster Banned

    pghstochaj;4740980

    You're making that up; we have no death penalty in the UK so what are you … You're making that up; we have no death penalty in the UK so what are you comparing with? You are limiting yourself. Do you not think that similar appeal processes already exist for life in prison?



    The US justice service. It's the nearest comparison we can use to what we would have in this country.

    People there can spend decades on death row, whilst the appeals process rattles on. Of course there's also the fact that the death penalty would be so sparingly used that you would have a negligable impact on the prisons service budget for it to be pointless.

    Then you have to factor in the extraneous court cases contesting it's return, the financial implications of opting out of the EU ban on it's use...

    and the electrivity bill from frying them.

    Oh, and the compensation to families of loved ones who were killed accidentally.

    Original Poster Banned

    pghstochaj;4740991

    Wow, you like making jumps. What evidence do you have that he took his … Wow, you like making jumps. What evidence do you have that he took his life through guilt? What evidence do you have to suggest all people in prison for life feel similar emotions? Nothing. Please learn to debate.



    The facts are these - he could have spent his life in prison, or taken his own life. He chose the latter.

    I appreciate your constructive criticism of my debating skills and I hope yo see some marked improvements based on your points.

    EDIT: Also you could look at the high profile suicide attempts of people like Ian Huntley and Ian Brady.

    Well i heard a good point about the death penalty on Sky New

    The person agreed with it and said.

    Society and Criminals live side by side but on a knifes edge, which at … Society and Criminals live side by side but on a knifes edge, which at the moment is tipped towards the criminal because now society is scared of the criminals, this is not right it should be the other way round were criminals are scared of society.



    So do you believe the death penalty would restore the balance?

    All I have to say is the justice system need to change to keep up with the times and also have heaver penalties for crimes that deserve it - The sentences for child abuse and Killings need to be addressed.

    Original Poster Banned

    geoneo123;4741041

    Well i heard a good point about the death penalty on Sky NewThe person … Well i heard a good point about the death penalty on Sky NewThe person agreed with it and said. So do you believe the death penalty would restore the balance?All I have to say is the justice system need to change to keep up with the times and also have heaver penalties for crimes that deserve it - The sentences for child abuse and Killings need to be addressed.



    I don't think it would restore the balance. I think when the state starts killing members of it's own society, some see that as justification to do the same. There's no evidence that the death penalty acts as a deterrent.

    Heavier sentences are needed, but (being a namby pamby liberal) I think it's also important to look at the underlying reasons for such nefarious acts.

    Banned

    This has been done numerous times, instead why not start a debate about doing some good for this country rather than debating something that would change nothing and will never happen

    Original Poster Banned

    sassie;4741108

    This has been done numerous times, instead why not start a debate about … This has been done numerous times, instead why not start a debate about doing some good for this country rather than debating something that would change nothing and will never happen



    Did you not see my 'legalise marijuana' thread? That would do a lot of good for this country.

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry;4741130

    Did you not see my 'legalise marijuana' thread? That would do a lot of … Did you not see my 'legalise marijuana' thread? That would do a lot of good for this country.



    this is about criminals facing a life sentance, not pot smoking

    Original Poster Banned

    sassie;4741137

    this si about criminals, not pot smoking



    That thread was about decriminalising a lot of people - crime figures cut overnight.

    Banned

    if you want to discuss that one, bump the other thread, this isnt what this thread was about, or do you know people wheere sick of you on that thread so start another with a different title but bring it back to the same one

    Original Poster Banned

    sassie;4741147

    if you want to discuss that one, bump the other thread, this isnt what … if you want to discuss that one, bump the other thread, this isnt what this thread was about, or do you know people wheere sick of you on that thread so start another with a different title but bring it back to the same one



    I'm not trying to bring that discussion back. It was a slightly tongue in cheek reference. Sorry.

    I've started another one about sexual health in this country. Is that of sufficient nobility?

    sassie;4741108

    This has been done numerous times, instead why not start a debate about … This has been done numerous times, instead why not start a debate about doing some good for this country rather than debating something that would change nothing and will never happen



    agreed, I reckon we should get rid of this stupid notion that champagne can only be called champagne if its made there. end

    Original Poster Banned

    Alfonse;4741164

    agreed, I reckon we should get rid of this stupid notion that champagne … agreed, I reckon we should get rid of this stupid notion that champagne can only be called champagne if its made there. end



    IT'S A SPARKLING WHITE WINE I TELL YOU!!!

    FilthAndFurry;4741007

    The US justice service. It's the nearest comparison we can use to what we … The US justice service. It's the nearest comparison we can use to what we would have in this country.People there can spend decades on death row, whilst the appeals process rattles on. Of course there's also the fact that the death penalty would be so sparingly used that you would have a negligable impact on the prisons service budget for it to be pointless.Then you have to factor in the extraneous court cases contesting it's return, the financial implications of opting out of the EU ban on it's use...and the electrivity bill from frying them.Oh, and the compensation to families of loved ones who were killed accidentally.



    The points remain; we are a different country to the US, you are inventing your own death row policy, go crazy, have a fictional limit to appeals rather than saying it would be the same as another country.

    Secondly, I will remind you that there are still numerous rights to appeal for long prison lengths.

    Original Poster Banned

    pghstochaj;4741184

    The points remain; we are a different country to the US, you are … The points remain; we are a different country to the US, you are inventing your own death row policy, go crazy, have a fictional limit to appeals rather than saying it would be the same as another country.Secondly, I will remind you that there are still numerous rights to appeal for long prison lengths.



    First point - America is generally a decent example because we share a cultural connection with them stronger than we do probably any other country in my opinion. Limiting appeals would be tough because a lot of appeals are based on new evidence coming to light or even new technology. A moratorium on that would be a dangerous route to take.

    Second point - that's a good thing because the justice system can get it wrong. The death penalty would be like chopping the eraser off the end of the pencil (which is a terribly crass analogy when looking at someone's life).

    I'm for the death penalty, and against this wussy attitude of "Yeah, but only for the worstestestest villains". Sod that. Any criminal that continually commits acts of severe detriment to someone's life, be it from mugging people on the street, raping them, beating them up, stealing their stuff, or whatever, things that have a real and serious effect on people's lives, and if they refuse to correct their ways after, say, three or so jail terms, I say we flush them out.

    S'like, a mate of mine got attacked at the weekend. It was a serious assault, including epic amounts of blood, a pint glass, head stamping, and numerous kicks to the face. The guy is known to the police for doing the same sort of thing in the past. Those of you that are against the death penalty, can you tell me why you think that guys like him deserve to live?

    i saw a documentary in the US where a man stood in court facing his wife and kids killer,The killer had first raped his wife then cut her throat ,He then went upstairs and smashed in the skull of the 13 year old daughter with a hammer then did the same to the 11 year old,now they were stood in court and all this father wanted to do was get hold of this man but he was surrounded by ten cops,Now you may feel symapathy for the killer thinking he doesnt deserve to die but my sympathies are with the father who has to live the rest of his life knowing what happened and seeing the man who did it given protection that his wife and kids never had,i personally would have let him at him,

    Banned

    death penalty for nonces. I cannot see why anyone would want a nonce to live after being convicted for such a thing. Obviously they would need to be guilty beyond doubt, but then just kill them, they are a complete waste and a risk.

    FilthAndFurry;4741349

    First point - America is generally a decent example because we share a … First point - America is generally a decent example because we share a cultural connection with them stronger than we do probably any other country in my opinion. Limiting appeals would be tough because a lot of appeals are based on new evidence coming to light or even new technology. A moratorium on that would be a dangerous route to take.Second point - that's a good thing because the justice system can get it wrong. The death penalty would be like chopping the eraser off the end of the pencil (which is a terribly crass analogy when looking at someone's life).



    This all arrives back at the initial point; the death penalty saves money.

    elddil???

    Also since the 1970s 75 people have been murdered in Britain by convicted killers who were allowed to live ,If one of those 75 people was a relative you may feel differently,Its real easy to be compassionate as long as you believe you will not be affected,

    In certain circumstances the death penalty would be justified, However theirs always the risk of a miscarriage of justice.
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