The Irish border conundrum.

46
Found 1st Dec 2017
Do any experts on here know how a soft border could be implemented to keep the status quo?

Brexit is full of little details that really matter and which the voters were unaware of when they crossed their box.
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Graham197957 m ago

WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let …WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or shut up about it.Love how the Irish think they can dictate to their main trading partner, it is THEM who needs US not the other way around. We are honestly giving the nation of Ireland way too much power in this, if we want a border then we will DAMN WELL HAVE ONE!


Pointless replying to this really because Graham is either an idiot who shouldn't be given the time of day or a troll who shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's hard to tell sometimes.
The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote that counts for as much as that of the well-informed educated man. The sooner the government accepts that we have to be pragmatic and scrap Brexit with all its spiralling expenses, and threats to the peaceful status quo in NI the better.
Josh.Rogan7 m ago

But seriously, Brexit is a stupid idea. Even if it was a good idea, your …But seriously, Brexit is a stupid idea. Even if it was a good idea, your politicians are too stupid to implement it, stop it and get back to watching football or something.




Thanks for the clarification couldn't figure out what side of the fence you are on from the previous 6 paragraphs.
46 Comments
WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or shut up about it.

Love how the Irish think they can dictate to their main trading partner, it is THEM who needs US not the other way around. We are honestly giving the nation of Ireland way too much power in this, if we want a border then we will DAMN WELL HAVE ONE!
Do they want an Irish Referendum on staying or leaving the EU too?
If they decided on leave, of course a very unlikely outcome, a natural easy solution may pop out in your face.

I am pretty sure the voters knew what a border is around the UK. It is more likely that they thought why it wasn't a hard one since most folks are used to the fortresses at Heathrow and Dover as well as Calais/Folkstone.

There are many other easy solutions, such as one from Mogg.
Edited by: "splender" 1st Dec 2017
Graham197917 m ago

Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or …Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or shut up about it.


Anyone silly enough to claim loyalty to those soap opera stars should have their voting rights stripped and be sent to live on an island with the Kardashians. Turn it into a reality TV show and it will pay for itself meaning we can jettison the flotsam for free. That makes a lot more sense than the financial mess that the Conservative party look like making of Brexit.
In five years I can see Theresa May on a special version of I'm a celebrity get me out of here (before I'm killed), in which disgruntled Remoaners hunt her down in a jungle wearing Boris Johnson masks where they get bonus points for skinning her alive.
Never mind an Orwellian dystopia, Britain is turning into Lords of the flies.
All praise to Allah and Jeremy Beadle.
Keep the border down, down, deeper and down.
Now let's rock
Edited by: "Derek_Horatio_Shatwell" 2nd Dec 2017
Graham197957 m ago

WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let …WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or shut up about it.Love how the Irish think they can dictate to their main trading partner, it is THEM who needs US not the other way around. We are honestly giving the nation of Ireland way too much power in this, if we want a border then we will DAMN WELL HAVE ONE!


Pointless replying to this really because Graham is either an idiot who shouldn't be given the time of day or a troll who shouldn't be taken seriously.

It's hard to tell sometimes.
The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote that counts for as much as that of the well-informed educated man. The sooner the government accepts that we have to be pragmatic and scrap Brexit with all its spiralling expenses, and threats to the peaceful status quo in NI the better.
Hhahahahahahaaaaaaa... ad infinitum..


I was waiting on hard reality hitting the brexiters on here.
Well done, its finally sinking in. What is happening with Tusks statement today is this. A European country is being treated as a sovereign state but with the full backing of the worlds biggest trading bloc... oh to be one of those Britannia?

Now.

You know you all 'want our borders back'
well... thats complicated. Your borders weren't as important when you signed the Good Friday Agreement. And when you did things like all-ireland healthcare (backed by Jim Wells from the DUP), which benefited UK citizens, and all-island agrifood arrangements ( despite the protestations of the DUP, this makes sense within a epidemiological unit such as an island... but hey 'Blue passports', right!!) were all underpinned by the fact that you were, like Ireland an EU country. Want to unravel those. No problem, you know that 50bn you are paying the EU, better put aside more as everyone with an Irish granny takes you to the cleaners over your breaking of the GFA.


So, these are all tied up in the GFA. Now, as others on here and on twitter, and various other places where people who have no real understanding of what their government has done to shaft them in the past go to discuss things, have suggested: Why not just let Northern Ireland go - forget about it, have borders at Stranraer, Holyhead, Liverpool etc etc...


Well... you aside from the fact that you haven't really planned for that either. There is no infrastructure in any of these places, aside from a whole multitude of reasons why that is a crazy idea.... there is the small matter of a pact with the DUP that was made because the lunatic in charge of the country called a general election, for no good reason, so the DUP leave the coalition.... in walks Jeremy at the next GE. Hilarity Ensues.


Also, your chief negotiator is threatening to walk out because his mate isn't allowed to download the old 'willie thorne' on his tax-payer paid-for computer....


laughing.too.hard.too.type......anymore.....
Edited by: "Josh.Rogan" 2nd Dec 2017
But seriously, Brexit is a stupid idea. Even if it was a good idea, your politicians are too stupid to implement it, stop it and get back to watching football or something.
Josh.Rogan7 m ago

But seriously, Brexit is a stupid idea. Even if it was a good idea, your …But seriously, Brexit is a stupid idea. Even if it was a good idea, your politicians are too stupid to implement it, stop it and get back to watching football or something.




Thanks for the clarification couldn't figure out what side of the fence you are on from the previous 6 paragraphs.
Graham19791 h, 45 m ago

WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let …WE NEED A HARD BORDER or we need to say goodbye to Northern Ireland! Let those who claim loyalty to the English monarch either move here or shut up about it.Love how the Irish think they can dictate to their main trading partner, it is THEM who needs US not the other way around. We are honestly giving the nation of Ireland way too much power in this, if we want a border then we will DAMN WELL HAVE ONE!


Calm down. We are giving Ireland no power. Ireland are part of the club WE have decided to leave. They are exercising their rights as part of the club that WE voted to join.
According to Tripadvisor you need photo id to travel from NI to the UK mainland - so there is already an "artificial" border....

I can't understand the position of the DUP - they voted to leave the EU but insist there is not hard border between NI and the Republic.....
splender1 h, 35 m ago

Do they want an Irish Referendum on staying or leaving the EU too?If they …Do they want an Irish Referendum on staying or leaving the EU too?If they decided on leave, of course a very unlikely outcome, a natural easy solution may pop out in your face.I am pretty sure the voters knew what a border is around the UK. It is more likely that they thought why it wasn't a hard one since most folks are used to the fortresses at Heathrow and Dover as well as Calais/Folkstone.There are many other easy solutions, such as one from Mogg.


Go on then. Please explain an easy solution
mattj7552 m ago

The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote …The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote that counts for as much as that of the well-informed educated man. The sooner the government accepts that we have to be pragmatic and scrap Brexit with all its spiralling expenses, and threats to the peaceful status quo in NI the better.


I disagree totally. Brexit must happen because anything else would be an afront to democracy.
RedLozzer31 m ago

Calm down. We are giving Ireland no power. Ireland are part of the club WE …Calm down. We are giving Ireland no power. Ireland are part of the club WE have decided to leave. They are exercising their rights as part of the club that WE voted to join.


No. Ireland is both a geographical and a political entitiy. Ireland as a Geographical entity had no say, as a political entity, the Northernish part did (56/44 against as it happens) however. Ireland, geographically and politically has a lot of power, more so now that May has handed it, literally handed it, to the DUP. They are the kingmakers. Thing is their biggest festivals celebrate regicide. I'd take that as a warning

Not that her word means anything, but she has stated time and time again that there will be no hard border, and her minions have said such rabble rousing things as 'We will leave the European Union in 2019 as one United Kingdom'.

Good.luck.with.that. Hows that work on the roads to holyhead and stranraer doing, i mean its only like 20bn worth of exports to ireland.... oh? not started them? I'm sure you'll get to them after dover, eh?
Edited by: "Josh.Rogan" 2nd Dec 2017
RedLozzer2 h, 55 m ago

I disagree totally. Brexit must happen because anything else would be an …I disagree totally. Brexit must happen because anything else would be an afront to democracy.


You mean an affront to referendums surely?
More importantly, who can explain how Pa O'Dwyer from Ireland managed to finish 3rd in UK's Strongest Man?
I already said , " such as an easy solution from Mogg." google the words rees mogg irish border gets you his simple solution , such as this bloomberg.com/new…ays
RedLozzer9 h, 16 m ago

Go on then. Please explain an easy solution

Edited by: "splender" 2nd Dec 2017
I get the impression that remoaners on here still think Brexit can be reversed when they read and regurgitate news of the continuous stumblingblocks the EU throws in our way.
The people of Eire are not concerned over an actual order as much as they are fearful that Brexit will increase prices for them. They are already paying considerably more than we are for food, for example. I travel there quite often to see relatives and find food items very expensive, for instance, a pack of Shreads in Aldi is 89p here, but in Aldi in Ireland they are €1.87 (almost double). The cost of commuting around the country is more expensive and the price of used cars (shipped in from the UK) are close to new cars here.
It’s no wonder then that those who can drive over to NI to buy what they need cheaper in the UK. As someone said above, the Irish needs Britain more than twe need them. I have to wonder what promises the EU have made to Ireland (again) to convince its government to try to hinder the UK’s exit from the EU. Ireland will only hurt its own economy if it continues in this manner. It has nothing substantial that we need, but it needs our trade and tourism to buoy up its economy. Once again Ireland is being duped by the fools in Europe.
I don't see the problem, keep things the way they are, if the EU want a border let them build it in the RoI, they can police it as well.
Ireland an independent country from the UK which doesn't want a hard border!

Ireland an independent country from the UK which relies on the UK for its air defence (can we start a petition to get this ended?)

Ireland an independent country whos government supported "unification through any means" leading to the death of thousands of innocent people.

Ireland an independent country who is so desperate not loose contact with Britian that it will hold up the whole of Europe!

That country is such nonsense.

Hard border and walk away anything else will be an immigrant and goods smuggling nightmare.
Predikuesi2 h, 12 m ago

They are already paying considerably more than we are for food, for …They are already paying considerably more than we are for food, for example. I travel there quite often to see relatives and find food items very expensive, for instance, a pack of Shreads in Aldi is 89p here, but in Aldi in Ireland they are €1.87 (almost double).




You do realise that Aldi is not a British company right? Those Shreads are cheaper in Newry and Derry shopping centres because the pound tanked, not because a German company has decided to charge different prices. Also, wages in ireland are higher both the minimum wage and the average wage are higher in Ireland than in the UK.


Predikuesi2 h, 12 m ago

. As someone said above, the Irish needs Britain more than twe need them.


Britain is not Irelands largest export market, that'll be belgium. Its a big one, sure, but the EU is a lot more important to Ireland than the UK is. As regards Britain not needing Ireland, perhaps when you look at the figures, you could make that argument, but if you are the British parent of a child needing heart surgery in that outpost of the UK you certainly need Ireland. Both country's need each other, Britain is either unwilling or incapable of doing any work for it.

To those making the utterly ridiculous point along the lines of 'if ireland/EU wants a border.. etc etc.'

No, they don't want a border - thats the whole point, The country that voted to 'get its borders back' will need one however, as even they realise that a country without borders, with a glaring loophole in their back yard for illicit trade, will very quickly lead to a failed state, thats not even to mention how they deal with a trade deal for pharmaceuticals from China and the Chinese quite rightly point to a 500km hole in the British net that allows for more effective medicines to get through from Europe. Want to talk about Immigration through this no-border solution?

'We want our borders back', says country that doesn't actually want its borders back.
Let's just send Bob and Wendy to build the border in Ireland before bricks go up in price
groenleader2 h, 44 m ago

Ireland an independent country from the UK which doesn't want a hard …Ireland an independent country from the UK which doesn't want a hard border!


Ireland would be reluctant to have a hard border, but generally it is the British politicians who are most vocal about the need for no hard border. Its not hard to see why, in terms of trade, only 1% of Irish exports are to the North, wheras 30% of Northern Irish exports go the other way. It is very much in British interests not to have a hard border.
groenleader2 h, 44 m ago

Ireland an independent country from the UK which relies on the UK for its …Ireland an independent country from the UK which relies on the UK for its air defence (can we start a petition to get this ended?)


I would imagine that this would be popular in Ireland as well, given the history of military involvement by the British in Ireland. It would however, put Britain at a very strange disadvantage, in that those Russian craft which the RAF have been chasing over ireland this past couple of years are quite unlikely to have been interested in Ireland.

Are you quite sure that denying British aircraft the rights they enjoy over Irish airspace would be in British strategic interests?

Also, when the generals and politicians are ripping up the contract for Air defence I'm assuming that this would cover the Marine Patrol and Search & rescue in the Atlantic that Ireland have been carrying out on behalf of Britain since the British retired their Nimrods?

As I say, i'm pretty sure that petition would get a lot more Irish signatories than British.



On pretty much every level, Brexit is classic shooting yourself in the foot, everything suggested on this page, while some may hurt ireland, they will also hurt Britain, the difference is that the EU is fighting Irelands corner to offset any damage done.

As i repeat on all these threads, you can console yourselves with the fact that Brexit is not happening. Not because of the EU, certainly not because of the left, not because of the media, not because of any number of reasons, its not going to happen, because it is not currently happening, EU organisations and individuals are leaving, but Britain is doing nothing, absolutely nothing to push Brexit forward. It is woefully, staggeringly and mostly downright hilariously incompetent.

pip pip.
Edited by: "Josh.Rogan" 2nd Dec 2017
RedLozzer11 h, 47 m ago

Brexit must happen because anything else would be an afront to democracy.


awot?
Edited by: "Adult" 2nd Dec 2017
gari18911 h, 56 m ago

According to Tripadvisor you need photo id to travel from NI to the UK …According to Tripadvisor you need photo id to travel from NI to the UK mainland - so there is already an "artificial" border....I can't understand the position of the DUP - they voted to leave the EU but insist there is not hard border between NI and the Republic.....


That's like saying there's an artificial border between Wigan and Preston because the train operators require you to have a ticket or a pass.
Have you considered going to an even more authoritative source? Yahoo Answers, for example.
Josh.Rogan1 h, 10 m ago

Ireland would be reluctant to have a hard border, but generally it is the …Ireland would be reluctant to have a hard border, but generally it is the British politicians who are most vocal about the need for no hard border. Its not hard to see why, in terms of trade, only 1% of Irish exports are to the North, wheras 30% of Northern Irish exports go the other way. It is very much in British interests not to have a hard border.I would imagine that this would be popular in Ireland as well, given the history of military involvement by the British in Ireland. It would however, put Britain at a very strange disadvantage, in that those Russian craft which the RAF have been chasing over ireland this past couple of years are quite unlikely to have been interested in Ireland. Are you quite sure that denying British aircraft the rights they enjoy over Irish airspace would be in British strategic interests? Also, when the generals and politicians are ripping up the contract for Air defence I'm assuming that this would cover the Marine Patrol and Search & rescue in the Atlantic that Ireland have been carrying out on behalf of Britain since the British retired their Nimrods?As I say, i'm pretty sure that petition would get a lot more Irish signatories than British.On pretty much every level, Brexit is classic shooting yourself in the foot, everything suggested on this page, while some may hurt ireland, they will also hurt Britain, the difference is that the EU is fighting Irelands corner to offset any damage done.As i repeat on all these threads, you can console yourselves with the fact that Brexit is not happening. Not because of the EU, certainly not because of the left, not because of the media, not because of any number of reasons, its not going to happen, because it is not currently happening, EU organisations and individuals are leaving, but Britain is doing nothing, absolutely nothing to push Brexit forward. It is woefully, staggeringly and mostly downright hilariously incompetent.pip pip.



With regard the hard border or not. Brexiteers don't really care if trade is lost, we accept a financial penalty at being out. Maybe in the long run with new trading partners that will even out, maybe it wont be.

But the deal was never for me and many others about doing more or even the same. It was about being away from EU, so if the hard border hurts, hurt me. People will leave if they don't like it.

There is nothing here Russia wants, maybe intreast in US airbases. Its simply that we respond that they respond, its tit for tat.
ITMA44 m ago

That's like saying there's an artificial border between Wigan and Preston …That's like saying there's an artificial border between Wigan and Preston because the train operators require you to have a ticket or a pass.Have you considered going to an even more authoritative source? Yahoo Answers, for example.


If you can't be bothered to provide me with a more authoratitive source, then I'm not going to bother either.......when I travel between England and Scotland I do not need any id whatsoever.
Paul McCartney - Give Ireland Back To The Irish - Lyrics

gari1893 h, 44 m ago

If you can't be bothered to provide me with a more authoratitive source, …If you can't be bothered to provide me with a more authoratitive source, then I'm not going to bother either.......when I travel between England and Scotland I do not need any id whatsoever.


Are you for real? If you fly between england and scotland, yes, yes you will need photographic ID, such as a passport or driving license, you may get lucky if they let you on with lesser forms of ID, but for the most part you will need one of those two.
Josh.Rogan16 h, 31 m ago

No. Ireland is both a geographical and a political entitiy. Ireland as a …No. Ireland is both a geographical and a political entitiy. Ireland as a Geographical entity had no say, as a political entity, the Northernish part did (56/44 against as it happens) however. Ireland, geographically and politically has a lot of power, more so now that May has handed it, literally handed it, to the DUP. They are the kingmakers. Thing is their biggest festivals celebrate regicide. I'd take that as a warningNot that her word means anything, but she has stated time and time again that there will be no hard border, and her minions have said such rabble rousing things as 'We will leave the European Union in 2019 as one United Kingdom'. Good.luck.with.that. Hows that work on the roads to holyhead and stranraer doing, i mean its only like 20bn worth of exports to ireland.... oh? not started them? I'm sure you'll get to them after dover, eh?


You might have been replying to the wrong post.
bryanhaines39913 h, 53 m ago

More importantly, who can explain how Pa O'Dwyer from Ireland managed to …More importantly, who can explain how Pa O'Dwyer from Ireland managed to finish 3rd in UK's Strongest Man?


Steroids and poisoning?
RedLozzer17 m ago

You might have been replying to the wrong post.


Quite possibly, considering how drunk i was i'm impressed i posted it on the right website.
splender11 h, 54 m ago

I already said , " such as an easy solution from Mogg." google the words …I already said , " such as an easy solution from Mogg." google the words rees mogg irish border gets you his simple solution , such as this https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-01/u-k-should-defy-demands-for-irish-brexit-border-lawmaker-says


Oh, you were referring to the throwback from the 18th century. I just read his arguments and wasn't impressed. Basically, he was saying there is no need for a hard border unless the EU wants to impose one. That is hilarious. WE have chosen to leave the EU and have not been expelled.
Predikuesi10 h, 14 m ago

I get the impression that remoaners on here still think Brexit can be …I get the impression that remoaners on here still think Brexit can be reversed when they read and regurgitate news of the continuous stumblingblocks the EU throws in our way. The people of Eire are not concerned over an actual order as much as they are fearful that Brexit will increase prices for them. They are already paying considerably more than we are for food, for example. I travel there quite often to see relatives and find food items very expensive, for instance, a pack of Shreads in Aldi is 89p here, but in Aldi in Ireland they are €1.87 (almost double). The cost of commuting around the country is more expensive and the price of used cars (shipped in from the UK) are close to new cars here. It’s no wonder then that those who can drive over to NI to buy what they need cheaper in the UK. As someone said above, the Irish needs Britain more than twe need them. I have to wonder what promises the EU have made to Ireland (again) to convince its government to try to hinder the UK’s exit from the EU. Ireland will only hurt its own economy if it continues in this manner. It has nothing substantial that we need, but it needs our trade and tourism to buoy up its economy. Once again Ireland is being duped by the fools in Europe.


I'm a remoaner and believe Brexit must happen. What amuses is me is the abuse I receive for daring to point out that Brexit isn't going very well. My point of view is just as valid as someone who voted to leave. BTW labelling someone a remoaner isn't very patriotic.
RedLozzer9 h, 43 m ago

I'm a remoaner and believe Brexit must happen. What amuses is me is the …I'm a remoaner and believe Brexit must happen. What amuses is me is the abuse I receive for daring to point out that Brexit isn't going very well. My point of view is just as valid as someone who voted to leave. BTW labelling someone a remoaner isn't very patriotic.


“I’m a remoaner ...” - “labelling someone a remoaner isn’t very patriotic”.


????
Predikuesi6 h, 49 m ago

“I’m a remoaner ...” - “labelling someone a remoaner isn’t very patriotic …“I’m a remoaner ...” - “labelling someone a remoaner isn’t very patriotic”.????


Basically he's an hypocrite.
" Build the wall, build the wall , build the wall " ............................................................................................. I jest...
mattj752nd Dec

The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote …The problem with democracy is that tabloid-craven imbeciles have a vote that counts for as much as that of the well-informed educated man.


See, democracy in action, even though all the imbeciles voted for what they thought was best, educated man still won the vote.
Ireland voted to leave the EU once, give them another referendum and see what they think now.
groenleader2nd Dec

Ireland an independent country from the UK which doesn't want a hard …Ireland an independent country from the UK which doesn't want a hard border!Ireland an independent country from the UK which relies on the UK for its air defence (can we start a petition to get this ended?)Ireland an independent country whos government supported "unification through any means" leading to the death of thousands of innocent people. Ireland an independent country who is so desperate not loose contact with Britian that it will hold up the whole of Europe!That country is such nonsense. Hard border and walk away anything else will be an immigrant and goods smuggling nightmare.


Who's been attacking Ireland? I know they're not in NATO but they're lovely people and, unless they started hostilities or the attack was approved by the UN, it's simply the right thing to defend a neighbour being attacked illegally.

Also Ireland is not such nonsense, whatever that means.
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