third party on hukd to help us not get ripped off

61 replies
Found 1st Jun 2008
see alot of people selling iphones and n95's which i am also apart of and a few are new members,now being a sceptic as i am and not wanting to get ripped off is there some solution we could set up here to make all sellers and buyers happy.like some sort of system that if you are paying with paypal or cash we could have a third party take hold of the transaction and when goods are received the payment is sent and the same for the goods if there was something we could impliment.suggestions are a good place to start so suggest away.

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Send the money to me to look after, I will then forward it on after both parties are happy, only downside is my selective amnesia:whistling:

some people have suggested the seller puts expensive items on ebay on a buy now.then you can purchase with paypal as a level of security.either that or expensive items are done on a collect and pay basis.

It can be done off-site: ]http//en…row
way back when I started selling on ebay, I had a number of buyers use Escrow on pricey purchases. It seems nowadays the main safety procedure used is to cross fingers and think 'it wont happen to me'!

Banned

i dont think there is alot you can do really, other than pick up the item from a seller, i know i wouldnt part with my money as easily as folk do on here, if everyone followed the guidelines there wouldnt be half the problems there is

Original Poster

yeah but there is only so much you can do,when your a new seller this place seems like a daunting place and also if you are buying from a new seller.i am thinking of paying £240 for a n95 and if i get scammed that's alot of pennies to lose.

Banned

vinylkiller;2224194

yeah but there is only so much you can do,when your a new seller this … yeah but there is only so much you can do,when your a new seller this place seems like a daunting place and also if you are buying from a new seller.i am thinking of paying £240 for a n95 and if i get scammed that's alot of pennies to lose.



nobody makes anyone sell or buy anything, so ok we have a middle man, what is to stop them scamming - lol

dude, is it really worth the saving over one from a decent website that offers quidco etc? saving money is one thing, but sometimes it's nice to get something new for yourself with a receipt and box and all the sealed bags etc

vinylkiller;2224194

yeah but there is only so much you can do,when your a new seller this … yeah but there is only so much you can do,when your a new seller this place seems like a daunting place and also if you are buying from a new seller.i am thinking of paying £240 for a n95 and if i get scammed that's alot of pennies to lose.



Then make it £245 via paypal and list on ebay with a load more protection ( I know it's not perfect). £5 for a lot more piece of mind sounds good to me.

I would never part with that amount on here full stop.

Banned

greg_68;2224259

Then make it £245 via paypal and list on ebay with a load more protection … Then make it £245 via paypal and list on ebay with a load more protection ( I know it's not perfect). £5 for a lot more piece of mind sounds good to me.I would never part with that amount on here full stop.



if they are out to scam you then they will, they can sell it here or ebay, no difference in protection, they take your money, clear their account and what is goona be the diffeence between here and ebay? none

I dont think that doing this will help as you will have some people saying - i never got my money

sassie;2224280

if they are out to scam you then they will, they can sell it here or … if they are out to scam you then they will, they can sell it here or ebay, no difference in protection, they take your money, clear their account and what is goona be the diffeence between here and ebay? none



Ebay offer better Paypal protection than standard purchases although unless the seller has good feedback they're limited to 150 pounds as far as I'm aware.

John

Banned

Johnmcl7;2224306

Ebay offer better Paypal protection than standard purchases although … Ebay offer better Paypal protection than standard purchases although unless the seller has good feedback they're limited to 150 pounds as far as I'm aware.John



they only offer it if they dont clear out their funds, if they have no funds in their account then you have no protection

if people get the correct details in the first place half the dodgy trades here would be sorted and wouldnt happen but for the rest that still go wrong when people are clearly robbing and aint bothered that there details are there and they laugh when you call them they need sorting

It is an individuals decision whether they purchase an item on Ebay or here - to have a 'middle man policy' only makes something simple more complex - a possible option is to have people list the same items and there cost and where they can be purchased preferably via an online store or site - where there is protection from being scammed and any item can be returned or the money refunded should there be a problem or change of mind - I am sure people here would be able to give solid alternatives that avoid the clandestine smokescreens and cubyholes of places like Ebay with their numerous and frequent scammers regardless of positive comments which anyone could write or submit including the sellers themselves and which also seem to be infecting HUKD as well - personally I will not buy anything here or on Ebay but I have seen positive guides and suggestions given by people here that would enable anyone to buy the same items for a lesser price or better deal with the added bonus of protecting the money that you part with

ive parted with £385 here and £265 :O

Both successful

Banned

sassie;2224307

they only offer it if they dont clear out their funds, if they have no … they only offer it if they dont clear out their funds, if they have no funds in their account then you have no protection



you do on ebay, you have buyer protection, regardless of funds available in the sellers account.

Banned

colinsunderland;2224380

you do on ebay, you have buyer protection, regardless of funds available … you do on ebay, you have buyer protection, regardless of funds available in the sellers account.



if the seller has emptied their account then you dont get naff all

sassie;2224307

they only offer it if they dont clear out their funds, if they have no … they only offer it if they dont clear out their funds, if they have no funds in their account then you have no protection



No - this is the difference, if the seller is eligible you get the money regardless although I think you are limited to two claims per year. If the seller isn't eligible then the standard paypal recovery process is used in which case you wouldn't get money if the account has been cleared out.

John

Banned

sassie;2224384

if the seller has emptied their account then you dont get naff all



yes you do

paypal.com/uk/…ide

Banned

to be honest i still cant see where it say they will refund you

Banned

Is it here: paypal.com/uk/…ide

PayPal Buyer Protection Policy – Our program to reimburse Users for losses for up to:

1.

£500 (“Top Tier” amount) for eligible items purchased on eBay; and
2.

£150 (“Basic Tier” amount) for all other eligible items purchased on eBay

Banned

well from what i have ever seen from members on here is , they have only ever got back if seller has funds in account, if not they have only ever got whats in the account or nowt, is this new then?

Banned

As far as I know thats what normally happens on purchases outside from ebay, but because ebay own paypal, purchases through there seem to get extra protection and paypal will refund them themselves

Just a suggestion, but why not write a letter to the sellers address containing a code word, then when he receives that he could pm it to you on here, that way you know 95% at least the address is genuine. (I say 95% as theres always the possibility any seller doing this could have access to an empty property), this could work for the seller to verify a buyers address too.

Banned

How about get the seller to take a pic of an unopened letter like a bill or something they receive in the post, that will show their name and address :thumbsup:

sassie;2224583

well from what i have ever seen from members on here is , they have only … well from what i have ever seen from members on here is , they have only ever got back if seller has funds in account, if not they have only ever got whats in the account or nowt, is this new then?



I would be interested to hear from people that have received a refund from Paypal where the seller has nil funds.

]https//ww…ide

13.13 Buyer Complaint Policy Benefits. If we grant a Claim under our … 13.13 Buyer Complaint Policy Benefits. If we grant a Claim under our Buyer Complaint Policy, PayPal will seek to collect from the seller by debiting the seller’s PayPal Account up to the amount of your loss, and you will receive a recovery to the extent that the seller has funds available in the Account at the time we debit the seller’s Account.

thesaint;2225120

I would be interested to hear from people that have received a refund … I would be interested to hear from people that have received a refund from Paypal where the seller has nil funds. :)]https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#pbp-policy



I think everyone would,

I've been done for £350 on a grafix card, ebay and paypal purposely put in the terms that you must wait upto a cirtain time before classing it as an item not recieved, knowing full well that this gives the seller ample time to withdraw the money, then they "ask" the seller on your behalf for a refund, get no response, wait another 14 days then try to get the funds from the paypal account which is obviously cleared by this point. Oh, and i got nothing, just fobbed off everytime.

The seller had 47 feedback for various items, all looked ok to me.. I wasnt the only one to be done by that seller either, infact a website was made by another buyer and over the month that you are told to wait, a few more buyers got done by them, but most potential buyers were warned off by us other guys knowing we'd been scammed, before they actually went through with payment, but the fact remains that ebay/paypal telling us we had to wait opened the door to other buyers getting scammed when it could of been avoided.

I do prefer to buy and sell here, even had quite a few sellers send me their items first in order to build thier feedback which i think is always a good idea, yes i had over 14 odd feedback at the time, a bit of rep but not a lot and only a 500+ post count, something that can be easily farmed within a week with a clearout sale with many cheap items. So everyone should watch out..

It IS far too easy to scam people on this site, easy to feedback farm, increase post count and gain rep within a few days in order to make others "think" you are genuine, jeesus, the whole rep rollin thing that got outa hand didnt help that! But anyone has to remember, this is a public forum, not a sanctioned auction site like ebay, and if you are not happy to deal, think somethings fishy then DONT DEAL, and the big one "oh, it wont happen to me" LOL then anyone being this naieve deserves to be scammed!

:thumbsup:

Banned

thesaint;2225120

I would be interested to hear from people that have received a refund … I would be interested to hear from people that have received a refund from Paypal where the seller has nil funds. :)]https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#pbp-policy



thats the buyer complaint policy, buyer protection policy is different and paypal will refund even if there are no funds in the sellers account.

It's quite clear from the links posted there are two schemes, not sure why people aren't reading the links

If your dialogue with the seller fails to produce a satisfactory result, … If your dialogue with the seller fails to produce a satisfactory result, you can then escalate the Dispute into a Claim that we will evaluate for reimbursement under one of the following programs:1. PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy – Our best efforts program to reimburse Users for losses only to the extent we are able to recover the funds from sellers.2. PayPal Buyer Protection Policy – Our program to reimburse Users for losses for up to: 1. £500 (“Top Tier” amount) for eligible items purchased on eBay; and 2. £150 (“Basic Tier” amount) for all other eligible items purchased on eBay

colinsunderland;2225657

thats the buyer complaint policy, buyer protection policy is different … thats the buyer complaint policy, buyer protection policy is different and paypal will refund even if there are no funds in the sellers account.It's quite clear from the links posted there are two schemes, not sure why people aren't reading the links



The quote I shown was from the link provided earlier. To make use of the "Buyer protection policy" you have to make a complaint don't you? To me, that says that the terms of the "Complaint policy" are the ones that are relevant.

Could you point out the part that states they will refund a buyer that has no funds, or supply a link to where someone else confirms that this is the case?

UsernameStealer!;2224593

How about get the seller to take a pic of an unopened letter like a bill … How about get the seller to take a pic of an unopened letter like a bill or something they receive in the post, that will show their name and address :thumbsup:



Wouldnt be that clever TBH as you can often walk past houses after postie has been and see letters that are not pushed all the way through, or the seller could just put a piece of paper in with a faked address showing, after photographing the back before opening it. Too easy to get round. There is no foolproof way of doing these things but some are more reliable than others, the best tool to avoid getting ripped is common sense!

harlzter;2226951

There is no foolproof way of doing these things but some are more … There is no foolproof way of doing these things but some are more reliable than others, the best tool to avoid getting ripped is common sense!



Agreed. But checking several types of 'proof' also decreases the scammer's chances. e.g. (1) picture of utility bill, (2) password thru ebay, (3) home landline checked (4) telephone no. at work checked (phoning switchboard and asking to be put through to the person) (5) contact from a third party verifing they know the person and their address (e.g. another ebay member with good feedback) (6) picture of actual item with a word of buyer's choice on it. etc

Might seem like a long list of checks but an honest and reliable seller would agree to them for the sale of an expensive item I think.

Banned

thesaint;2226410

The quote I shown was from the link provided earlier. To make use of the … The quote I shown was from the link provided earlier. To make use of the "Buyer protection policy" you have to make a complaint don't you? To me, that says that the terms of the "Complaint policy" are the ones that are relevant.Could you point out the part that states they will refund a buyer that has no funds, or supply a link to where someone else confirms that this is the case?



I did and quoted it in bold
I don't really know what you are wanting? It clearly states there are 2 types of claim, one is where they can only reimburse what the seller has available, the other is up to £150 or £500 depending on the sellers status.

colinsunderland;2227379

I did and quoted it in boldI don't really know what you are wanting? It … I did and quoted it in boldI don't really know what you are wanting? It clearly states there are 2 types of claim, one is where they can only reimburse what the seller has available, the other is up to £150 or £500 depending on the sellers status.



Just got off the phone to Paypal, as I think that the terms are confusing, as they don't specificaly state that they will reimburse from their own funds.

They confirm that they will reimbuse users even if there are no funds in the account. :oops:

thesaint;2226410

The quote I shown was from the link provided earlier. To make use of the … The quote I shown was from the link provided earlier. To make use of the "Buyer protection policy" you have to make a complaint don't you? To me, that says that the terms of the "Complaint policy" are the ones that are relevant.Could you point out the part that states they will refund a buyer that has no funds, or supply a link to where someone else confirms that this is the case?



It is confusing and unclear, as far as I'm aware the 'Buyer Protection Policy applies if the auction is eligible but if not, then it falls back to the 'Buyer Complaint Policy' - the latter is the standard paypal procedure where they attempt to recover funds but you get nothing if the account is emptied.

John

Johnmcl7;2227966

It is confusing and unclear, as far as I'm aware the 'Buyer Protection … It is confusing and unclear, as far as I'm aware the 'Buyer Protection Policy applies if the auction is eligible but if not, then it falls back to the 'Buyer Complaint Policy' - the latter is the standard paypal procedure where they attempt to recover funds but you get nothing if the account is emptied.John



The case we are discussing is not an auction. In my call to Paypal I did not mention Ebay.

Banned

thesaint;2228091

The case we are discussing is not an auction. In my call to Paypal I did … The case we are discussing is not an auction. In my call to Paypal I did not mention Ebay.



I was commenting on sassie saying

if they are out to scam you then they will, they can sell it here or … if they are out to scam you then they will, they can sell it here or ebay, no difference in protection, they take your money, clear their account and what is goona be the diffeence between here and ebay? none



As far as I'm aware the extra protection is only available on ebay, where the auction/BIN displays the buyer protection logo. Unless it's changed recently then the extra protection wouldn't cover you for purchases on here.

The main problem with paypal is that nothing is clearly set out in terms the average person can understand, and it's usually only through trial and error you get to find out what is what. Like on paypalsucks.com, almost all the stories are from people who haven't followed the rules, or expected more than they should have.

Pasted from the email, no matter how i reply, they always reply with the same (pre-written) email:

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for contacting PayPal in regard to case ID PP-044-xxx-552

According to our records, the claim was closed in your favour and we attempted to get a refund from the seller's account but there were no funds available. In this case, you were covered by PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies to all physical items purchased outside of eBay or eBay Express that were not delivered to the buyer. It is our best efforts programme, which means we will do our best to recover the full amount from the seller's account. However, we can only reimburse buyers for losses to the extent we are able to recover the funds from the seller. PayPal cannot guarantee a full refund.

If a full refund can not be recovered from the seller's account, PayPal will ask the seller to issue a refund for the remaining amount and may limit the seller's account until the refund is credited to your PayPal account.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
Joseph
Protection Services Department
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l.
& Cie, S.C.A. Société en Commandite par Actions. Registered Office: 5th Floor, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

I'm being bum bandited profusely arent I!

thesaint;2228091

The case we are discussing is not an auction. In my call to Paypal I did … The case we are discussing is not an auction. In my call to Paypal I did not mention Ebay.



The case I am discussing is - Sassie claimed there is no difference between the buyer protection here and on ebay which is not correct.

John

Banned

DudeyGeeza;2228562

I'm being bum bandited profusely arent I!



what was the ebay item number?

as for

ebay and paypal purposely put in the terms that you must wait upto a … ebay and paypal purposely put in the terms that you must wait upto a cirtain time before classing it as an item not recieved



you can start a dispute through paypal minutes after paying, i've had one done on me in less than 10 minutes :w00t:
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