TV engineering report for a fault on my toshiba 40L1333B TV

27
Found 10th Apr 2015
Hi, My toshiba 40L1333b TV broke after 17 months argos are playing hardball and won't do anything unless I provide a report to prove it wasn't my fault.
How can I get these and how much do they costs?

If anyone is good at diagnosing faults the TV has the power lights working correctly and sound is fine but the picture does not work.

Thanks
Ayden
Community Updates
28 Comments
try local trading standards? as 17months out a new tv is pants.
I've also seen this: 'The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'

As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.

The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.'

Which shows that under EU law the SOGA of 1979 does not need to apply and I shouldn't need to show the fault
Seem to be a few other people having the exact same problem online, unless it is you on other sites :p. Are you sure the picture is completely black, because other people have a problem where it is incredibly dark (can only see anything by shinning a flash light at the screen when on).

I looked on those forums aswell. Did the flashlight trick and no luck

MIDURIX

Seem to be a few other people having the exact same problem online, … Seem to be a few other people having the exact same problem online, unless it is you on other sites :p. Are you sure the picture is completely black, because other people have a problem where it is incredibly dark (can only see anything by shinning a flash light at the screen when on).


Ayden No good to you now but in future maybe try and get a price match from John Lewis as all their televisions come with a free 5year warranty. As for Argos it is my belief that after the manufactures warrantee has expired they will only try to have your goods repaired possibly at your expense, unless you have paid an extortionate amount for an extended warranty. Whether you can try the not fit for purpose route, I'm not sure but may be worth considering.
aydenthelion

I've also seen this: 'The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The … I've also seen this: 'The EU directive in question is 1999/44/EC. The full wording is contained here (open the word documtent and scroll to page 7) but the important bit is this: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'As with UK law, a seller is not bound by the guarantee 'if the (fault) has its origin in materials supplied by the consumer'. But the EU rule does not require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions.The EU rule also says buyers need to report a problem within two months of discovering it if they want to be covered under the rule.'Which shows that under EU law the SOGA of 1979 does not need to apply and I shouldn't need to show the fault


The UK opted out of that EU legislation
chocci

The UK opted out of that EU legislation



Ok so I have spoken to toshiba and they told me it is the backlight which is uneconomical to repair and pretty much confirmed it wasn't my fault by doing a flashlight diagnostics. Argos said if I get an engineer report they will offer me a partial refund do you or anyone else think this email is sufficent enough? I will definately use any refund I get to get a john lewis TV.
aydenthelion

Ok so I have spoken to toshiba and they told me it is the backlight which … Ok so I have spoken to toshiba and they told me it is the backlight which is uneconomical to repair and pretty much confirmed it wasn't my fault by doing a flashlight diagnostics. Argos said if I get an engineer report they will offer me a partial refund do you or anyone else think this email is sufficent enough? I will definately use any refund I get to get a john lewis TV.


depends how much the partial refund is as the engineers report is going to be around £100 at a guess
This is regarded as "not fit for purpose" under Sales Of Goods Act.

Take a leaf out of the book of this guy at hotukdeals.com/tag…242
Basically, see the links to Citizens Advice Bureau and follow the advice in there to the letter. You are not required to fund a technical analysis/report. Do not take any shortcuts to the advice given. You will only get a partial refund.
don't think that letter will do anything as I called them back and they won't do anything without that engineer report and I have no idea where to get one
aydenthelion

don't think that letter will do anything as I called them back and they … don't think that letter will do anything as I called them back and they won't do anything without that engineer report and I have no idea where to get one


that is your choice - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, Citizens Advice Bureau and their consumer advice service would not provide that information if they thought it would not work. Suggest you try reading that information again - and if you want more help give the consumer advice service a ring - not really much to lose by doing so. We haven't even touched upon yet how you paid for this TV - if by Credit Card you have a degree of protection.
tardytortoise

that is your choice - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, … that is your choice - everyone is entitled to their opinion. But, Citizens Advice Bureau and their consumer advice service would not provide that information if they thought it would not work. Suggest you try reading that information again - and if you want more help give the consumer advice service a ring - not really much to lose by doing so. We haven't even touched upon yet how you paid for this TV - if by Credit Card you have a degree of protection.

Thanks for the reply. I paid £229.99 to Argos eBay for the refurbished 40l1333b model via debit card / PayPal after several calls to the customer service manager she wouldn't budge without getting a report from an independent engineer where I don't know anywhere around kings cross that can do that.

Regarding citizens advice they suggested u make a dispute through PayPal I tried but obviously the limit is 90 days so was rejected. They said to write Argos a letter saying we spoke to CAB and quote the SOGA of 1979 but I already informed the manager of this and she was having none of it.. Really lost at what to do.
Can't be 100% sure that it is legally binding, but refurbished TV's sold by Argos on eBay are usually advertised with only 12 months warranty. This could be the reason why they are being so obstinate.
aydenthelion

Thanks for the reply. I paid £229.99 to Argos eBay for the refurbished … Thanks for the reply. I paid £229.99 to Argos eBay for the refurbished 40l1333b model via debit card / PayPal after several calls to the customer service manager she wouldn't budge without getting a report from an independent engineer where I don't know anywhere around kings cross that can do that. Regarding citizens advice they suggested u make a dispute through PayPal I tried but obviously the limit is 90 days so was rejected. They said to write Argos a letter saying we spoke to CAB and quote the SOGA of 1979 but I already informed the manager of this and she was having none of it.. Really lost at what to do.


Write the letter, CAB have a template you can amend. The letter may or may not achieve anything but you got to try. It's the next stage that could get more interesting - potentially you may have to go to a small claims court. Refurbished is an interesting development because I would expect them to have records about the nature of the refurbishment. It's almost an admission that there was something wrong with it before it went back on sale. How de we know it was properly refurbished? Consider asking them for documentation that details the refurbishment that took place. It still has to be fit for purpose - 17 months is not fit for purpose.
tardytortoise

Write the letter, CAB have a template you can amend. The letter may or … Write the letter, CAB have a template you can amend. The letter may or may not achieve anything but you got to try. It's the next stage that could get more interesting - potentially you may have to go to a small claims court. Refurbished is an interesting development because I would expect them to have records about the nature of the refurbishment. It's almost an admission that there was something wrong with it before it went back on sale. How de we know it was properly refurbished? Consider asking them for documentation that details the refurbishment that took place. It still has to be fit for purpose - 17 months is not fit for purpose.



so I sent them an email requesting that they send me documentation of the refurbishment as that is my right and by law they should let me know when and how it was refurbished. otherwise it should be marked as secondhand which is misleading. will write the CAB template today and see what they say. will update you when I get a reply and if you have any more help please comment thanks for this support! I normally done well in sticking up for myself but Argos are playing mega hard ball
reaper1951

Can't be 100% sure that it is legally binding, but refurbished TV's sold … Can't be 100% sure that it is legally binding, but refurbished TV's sold by Argos on eBay are usually advertised with only 12 months warranty. This could be the reason why they are being so obstinate.



Even a second hand product (if you could call a refurbished product that) is covered under soga as long as its sold under a reputable comapany. The fact is even if they had the TV for a year before they sold it as refurbished you would still argue that a very small percentage of TVs would fault in 2.5 years. Everyone I know has had their TV last a minimum of four years.
*UPDATE* they are not budging even though I sent a letter to head office and the email from Toshiba stating that the item was faulty and not down to negligence. Do you reckon my next step is to take them to court? They seem very willing to do so. Brought the Samsung ue40h5000 from John Lewis for 279 because it has the 5 year warranty!
Post all this to their Facebook page. Chances are they won't like the publicity and may become more open to sorting something.

Failing that I reckon it will cost you more than it is worth to take them to court but you could speak to Trading Standards regarding the issue and see what they say. I would think it is up to them to prove it was your fault rather than you prove it wasn't.
aydenthelion

*UPDATE* they are not budging even though I sent a letter to head office … *UPDATE* they are not budging even though I sent a letter to head office and the email from Toshiba stating that the item was faulty and not down to negligence. Do you reckon my next step is to take them to court? They seem very willing to do so. Brought the Samsung ue40h5000 from John Lewis for 279 because it has the 5 year warranty!




Don't waste your time with court for this. The stress and all court fees will cost you.

You could try to write to argos with a letter of intent to take them to court. They might accept your claim.
This was the reply they sent me when I posted the letter via recorded delivery and advised sending them to court: "I am sorry to read that you are unhappy with my previous response. The sale
of goods act does state that after a "reasonable period of time" the
customer is deemed to have accepted the goods as satisfactory. As you have
had this TV for 17 months and did not contact us within 30 days of having
the item we therefore take this to mean that you accepted the goods. We are
not required to provide proof of the refurbishment of the item as we do
offer a 12 month warranty and as previously mentioned would have been happy
to resolve this issue had this occurred within the warranty period.

We have offered a solution to the issue which under the law each retailer
is required to do. We just require a report from an independent engineer
that is happy to say the TV has a manufacturing fault. It is unfortunate
that we are unable to take a print out or an email from Toshiba as proof
that the TV has been inspected. Without an independent report we are unable
to help you any further with this issue as we have provided a solution to
you and wish to bring this matter to a close.

Should you wish to pursue this with the small claims court then please let
us know so that I can provide a correspondance address with which to send
the appropriate paperwork to?

Kind regards

Kel Caffekey"

They seem very willing to defend there decision, all for £200
aydenthelion

This was the reply they sent me when I posted the letter via recorded … This was the reply they sent me when I posted the letter via recorded delivery and advised sending them to court: "I am sorry to read that you are unhappy with my previous response. The saleof goods act does state that after a "reasonable period of time" thecustomer is deemed to have accepted the goods as satisfactory. As you havehad this TV for 17 months and did not contact us within 30 days of havingthe item we therefore take this to mean that you accepted the goods. We arenot required to provide proof of the refurbishment of the item as we dooffer a 12 month warranty and as previously mentioned would have been happyto resolve this issue had this occurred within the warranty period.We have offered a solution to the issue which under the law each retaileris required to do. We just require a report from an independent engineerthat is happy to say the TV has a manufacturing fault. It is unfortunatethat we are unable to take a print out or an email from Toshiba as proofthat the TV has been inspected. Without an independent report we are unableto help you any further with this issue as we have provided a solution toyou and wish to bring this matter to a close.Should you wish to pursue this with the small claims court then please letus know so that I can provide a correspondance address with which to sendthe appropriate paperwork to?Kind regardsKel Caffekey"They seem very willing to defend there decision, all for £200



Seems to me that they are being very reasonable.

It is your directive if you wish to get an independent report to take the case further. Your TV is out of the standard 12 month warranty and was purchased refurbished.

I had an LG TV which the screen wen't complete blank however the control and sound was working okay, it was within warranty however after an engineer came out they deemed it not viable to repair. They gave me a new TV and was going to take the LG, however in their terms and condition I read it said I could keep the defective unit. I sold the TV as faulty for £160.

That's a tip for all who claim under extended warranty ect.. read the terms and you may be able to keep the faulty item as well, which you can sell as faulty! No wonder the engineer wanted to take it away X)



Edited by: "joshp" 16th Apr 2015
joshp

Seems to me that they are being very reasonable. It is your directive if … Seems to me that they are being very reasonable. It is your directive if you wish to get an independent report to take the case further. Your TV is out of the standard 12 month warranty and was purchased refurbished. I had an LG TV which the screen wen't complete blank however the control and sound was working okay, it was within warranty however after an engineer came out they deemed it not viable to repair. They gave me a new TV and was going to take the LG, however in their terms and condition I read it said I could keep the defective unit. I sold the TV as faulty for £160. That's a tip for all who claim under extended warranty ect.. read the terms and you may be able to keep the faulty item as well, which you can sell as faulty! No wonder the engineer wanted to take it away X)



They are being unreasonable becasue the only engineer I could find within my local area (20 miles of N1)
will charge £100, they said if the costs were that high they wouldn't refund the report because the cost was too high and they have seen the report cheaper but this is my only option. So they are basically forcing me not to do an engineers report as they will not refund the cost of the only option I have available
aydenthelion

They are being unreasonable becasue the only engineer I could find within … They are being unreasonable becasue the only engineer I could find within my local area (20 miles of N1)will charge £100, they said if the costs were that high they wouldn't refund the report because the cost was too high and they have seen the report cheaper but this is my only option. So they are basically forcing me not to do an engineers report as they will not refund the cost of the only option I have available



They are not forcing you to do anything. Ask them what they would be willing to cover in terms of the report then. However that would only be on the basis that it is a manufacturer fault, otherwise they will likely refund nothing.
joshp

They are not forcing you to do anything. Ask them what they would be … They are not forcing you to do anything. Ask them what they would be willing to cover in terms of the report then. However that would only be on the basis that it is a manufacturer fault, otherwise they will likely refund nothing.



I know that if its not my fault they don't refund the costs. If you could see it from my point of view, I spoke with Toshiba technical support directly and they ran me through diagnostics and we have come to the conclusion that the back light has gone as there is a very faint picture when flashed with a torch in complete darkness. The TV has been in the exact same place its whole life and in impecable condition so I would be VERY suprised if it was classed as 'my fault'. So from my point of view I have a TV which has been kept very well breaking after 17 months - Not normal practice for a TV so you can see why I have my frustration. I asked them what amount would be deemed appropriate but they would not give me a figure at all!
However - look at from Argos point of view ..... waht if the following scebario (amongst others) could e true..

you get bored with Toshiba TV / decide you don't like it anymore and you induce a fault - google creating faults - it is not so difficult.

You then demand a refund from Argos outside of warranty under SOGA.

If Argos were then to give you a refund - even partial - and you then broadcast this on social media / HUKD etc etc

where does that leave Argos ......

so they have policies in place to cover themselves - hence if you can prove it is a manufacturing defect based on a report for the said TV, not just a Toshiba comment where Toshiba have not examined the said TV - then they will entertain a claim. And yes they will have limits - you could go to a local repair guy and say - hey mate give me a report and charge me £300 and we will split the costs

and yes this does happen - and more than you think .... not saying you would do it - but this is what Argos will assume

EliTom
I see I do need to find some way to prove it within reasonable cost. I have also seen that misuse of the SOGA is more common so this is why they play hardball with you. It's just i'm one of the honest ones going to be down £200 if me and Argos don't come to an agreement...
Not sure if this may be of benefit to your problem but may be worth a look from the Martin Lewis money saving expert site.

Join the complaining revolution. Free tool to help MILLIONS fix gripes
It drafts a letter to banks, shops, energy firms, etc, sends it, monitors replies & escalates to ombudsmen if needed
Our aim's always been to cut your bills and fight your corner. Yet complaining isn't always easy for everyone - they often ignore or fob you off. So often it takes a certain type of person to get their due. Now we want to level the playing field...

Resolver - helps you complain for free to 3,500+ firms & public bodies. The free Resolver tool* is a unique new automated complaints system, to take out the pain and cost. It works with energy, finance, legal, leisure, motoring, retail, food, travel, telecoms, water and other firms. Full help in our Resolver guide, but in brief:

- It tells you your rights. Select your issue and it gives you the lowdown.
- Drafts a letter. You get to make a bespoke version of one of 44,000 templates, incl the bit most people forget: what resolution do you want? Alternatively, you can call and it will record it.
- Monitors replies. It will keep an eye on whether there's been a response and prompt you to act if not.
- Escalates if needed. If you don't get a resolution, it works with many ombudsmen & regulators - eg, the Financial, Energy, Parking, Flights - and some even take complaints directly from the system.
If it's free with no ads, how does it make money? It plans to make money selling firms' info on how their complaint system compares to others (it'll never sell your personal info) and consultancy to improve processes. Plus, if you're complaining, eg, about an energy provider, it may encourage you to switch, too.
Resolver's "in association with MoneySavingExpert". What does that mean? Over to Martin: "For years we've used template letters to help - over 10m for PPI, flight delays and bank charges campaigns alone. Resolver's system can take this further. Sorry to do a Victor Kiam (if you're old enough to remember), but when I saw it I wanted to get involved. So we're now committed to marrying Resolver's tech with our campaigning background."

This means incorporating it into MSE guides, even where before we haven't added "what to do if it goes wrong". For the big reclaims, we're feeding our template letters & experience into Resolver's process (once done, we'll update you via this email). As part of this, MSE is taking part ownership of Resolver. Full info in MSE & Resolver.

Interesting. Currently I am in the process of finding a quality engineer that will provide the report. Also reaper I took your advice and brought a TV from John Lewis the Samsing 40U5000EH Or whatever its called decent set for the money Just feel like giving up with it TBH but thats what the retailer wants you to do!

reaper1951

Not sure if this may be of benefit to your problem but may be worth a … Not sure if this may be of benefit to your problem but may be worth a look from the Martin Lewis money saving expert site.Join the complaining revolution. Free tool to help MILLIONS fix gripesIt drafts a letter to banks, shops, energy firms, etc, sends it, monitors replies & escalates to ombudsmen if neededOur aim's always been to cut your bills and fight your corner. Yet complaining isn't always easy for everyone - they often ignore or fob you off. So often it takes a certain type of person to get their due. Now we want to level the playing field... Resolver - helps you complain for free to 3,500+ firms & public bodies. The free Resolver tool* is a unique new automated complaints system, to take out the pain and cost. It works with energy, finance, legal, leisure, motoring, retail, food, travel, telecoms, water and other firms. Full help in our Resolver guide, but in brief:- It tells you your rights. Select your issue and it gives you the lowdown.- Drafts a letter. You get to make a bespoke version of one of 44,000 templates, incl the bit most people forget: what resolution do you want? Alternatively, you can call and it will record it.- Monitors replies. It will keep an eye on whether there's been a response and prompt you to act if not.- Escalates if needed. If you don't get a resolution, it works with many ombudsmen & regulators - eg, the Financial, Energy, Parking, Flights - and some even take complaints directly from the system.If it's free with no ads, how does it make money? It plans to make money selling firms' info on how their complaint system compares to others (it'll never sell your personal info) and consultancy to improve processes. Plus, if you're complaining, eg, about an energy provider, it may encourage you to switch, too.Resolver's "in association with MoneySavingExpert". What does that mean? Over to Martin: "For years we've used template letters to help - over 10m for PPI, flight delays and bank charges campaigns alone. Resolver's system can take this further. Sorry to do a Victor Kiam (if you're old enough to remember), but when I saw it I wanted to get involved. So we're now committed to marrying Resolver's tech with our campaigning background." This means incorporating it into MSE guides, even where before we haven't added "what to do if it goes wrong". For the big reclaims, we're feeding our template letters & experience into Resolver's process (once done, we'll update you via this email). As part of this, MSE is taking part ownership of Resolver. Full info in MSE & Resolver.


Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Top Discussions

    Top Merchants