Two electricity meters in one flat (Picture included)

39
Found 13th Dec 2015
Hi everyone,

Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on why our flat has two electricity meters?

I'll try and give as much info as possible...

We moved in 4 months ago and the left meter read 22253.15 (5th Aug), and the right meter read 74581.1 (5th Aug). On the 10th of December the left meter read 23344.29 (10th Dec) and the right meter read 76472.3 (10th Dec). This is a difference of 1091.14 (left meter) and 1891.2 (right meter)

When we moved in we were told from the landlord not to worry about contacting the electricity company as they will deal with them. They said they have a complex setup.

###### EDITED######

Sorry, got to reword the statement above as I've just spoken to the other half about this. Basically I can't remember the exact wording but it is something along the lines that they have a different setup and get a really good rate, so we cant change electricity company. We forward the meter readings to the landlord, they receive the bill then forward it to us.

####################

The flat we live in is a converted house split into two flats. We occupy the downstairs flat.

Both electricity meters are clocking up and spinning at the same time, which leads me to believe that this isn't one meter for day and one for night.

I'm tempted to believe that one meter is for us and one for upstairs. Also, is it feasible that the upstairs flat doesn't have a meter, and the one on the right is the total supply, the left is for us, and you subtract the two to work out the supply for the upstairs flat? I've just been requested a few days ago to send the landlord both meter readings. If both meters are for us, that means an estimated bill of around £500 (a total of 2982kwh) for 4 months and 5 days, which is roughly £4/day. We have a gas supply and the flat isn't usually occupied during the day.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,

JP

[PICTURE IN FIRST REPLY]
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Original Poster
http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq10/jppilot23/Meter_zpsk3nbekns.jpg

When we moved in we were told from the landlord not to worry about … When we moved in we were told from the landlord not to worry about contacting the electricity company as they will deal with them. They said they have a complex setup



oO
now im not sure, but you can in theory ring the national grid people and request using meter numbers what each supply is regustered to?
Original Poster
DAMNOME

oO



I cant remember the exact words, but basically along the lines they have a different setup so they deal with the electricity company.
I think you've answered your own question in that one meter feeds your flat and the other meter the other flat.
2 meters feeding only your flat makes no sense whatsoever - maybe the landlord has asked you for both meter readings as you obviously have access to both?

I think you'll be getting a bill for your flat only and the other flat will obviously get one for their usage.

Can't think of any other logical explanation tbh
One meter is for the upstairs flat and the other is yours.
Who pays the electricity bill? You or landlord?
Original Poster
pennyfarthing88

I think you've answered your own question in that one meter feeds your … I think you've answered your own question in that one meter feeds your flat and the other meter the other flat.2 meters feeding only your flat makes no sense whatsoever - maybe the landlord has asked you for both meter readings as you obviously have access to both?I think you'll be getting a bill for your flat only and the other flat will obviously get one for their usage. Can't think of any other logical explanation tbh



Thanks for your reply.

I'm such a muppet. I've just looked again at the wiring and think I have worked it out. It seems the two left wires in the little junction box between the left meter and fuse is the main supply line. It then splits into two, the left for us as it goes to the fuse box then the right for upstairs.

Thanks again!
Your meter is on the left as the the two tails from the left meter enter your consumer unit.
Original Poster
Grill

Who pays the electricity bill? You or landlord?



We've yet to pay any electricity bill, but we email the landlord the meter readings and they forward it to the electricity company and receive the bill. Now I'm not sure if they pay for it then we pay them, or they forward the bill to us to pay.

Thanks for your time.

JP
does your flat have electric heating? or did it ever? two meters are used for peak daytime and night off peak for houses with electrical storage heaters
Original Poster
bazzac

does your flat have electric heating? or did it ever? two meters are used … does your flat have electric heating? or did it ever? two meters are used for peak daytime and night off peak for houses with electrical storage heaters



The flat we are in now has gas central heating. the boiler just plugs into the normal wall socket. The previous flat we were in had storage heaters and we had one meter, but like you said we had a daytime rate and a night time rate.

Many thanks,

JP
Original Poster
transit

Your meter is on the left as the the two tails from the left meter enter … Your meter is on the left as the the two tails from the left meter enter your consumer unit.



Thank you.

After following the wires again it does seem to be the case.
Yup deffo 2 flats. I lived in an upstairs flat about 10 years ago and I had to knock on downstairs door every so often to get a meter reading. Although I paid for my own electricity and chose who I dealt with.
Edited by: "NEtech" 13th Dec 2015
Original Poster
wackypaki

now im not sure, but you can in theory ring the national grid people and … now im not sure, but you can in theory ring the national grid people and request using meter numbers what each supply is regustered to?



Thank you, I wasn't aware of that.
Original Poster
tardytortoise

read this … read this https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/get-a-better-energy-deal/switching-energy-supplier-if-youre-a-tenant/



Thanks for that, much appreciated.

I'll have to wait and see whether its a supplier bill or landlord bill.
With that set-up, I'd be wanting to see the actual bill which the supply company sends to the landlord with the meter number on it and readings that you recognise as yours. As one meter is exclusively yours, there should be nothing to hide. And, I'd want to see what tariff you're on to make sure the landlord isn't just spinning you one about a good deal. With your own meter, there should be nothing to stop you switching supplier if you wish to, unless your tenancy agreement prohibits it - not just something the landlord said to you after you signed your agreement.
why don't u Just ask the landlord why there are 2 meters and ask him for the unit charge and standing charge to see if its actually a good rate or not me thinks hes Just blaggint it too u, one meter is probably owned by the electric company and One has been put in by landlord that's why its not in ur name or the other flats. i was wanting thinking of putting in a second meter for upstairs but it is privately owned by landlord not electric supplier
Original Poster
ceres

With that set-up, I'd be wanting to see the actual bill which the supply … With that set-up, I'd be wanting to see the actual bill which the supply company sends to the landlord with the meter number on it and readings that you recognise as yours. As one meter is exclusively yours, there should be nothing to hide. And, I'd want to see what tariff you're on to make sure the landlord isn't just spinning you one about a good deal. With your own meter, there should be nothing to stop you switching supplier if you wish to, unless your tenancy agreement prohibits it - not just something the landlord said to you after you signed your agreement.



Thank you for that, I'll make sure I'll try and get the actual bill or at least a complete breakdown if the landlord sends his own bill. Not to sound stupid though, but how can we swap electricity company if the supply is split for two flats. Would the upstairs flat also have to switch supplier?

Thanks again,

JP
The suppliers meter is on the right and that meter alone is what is billed for usage.

Your landlord has installed the second meter in theory he deducts your usage from the bill and the remainder is billed to upstairs.

Whether or not he is honest is another matter.
jp297

Thank you for that, I'll make sure I'll try and get the actual bill or at … Thank you for that, I'll make sure I'll try and get the actual bill or at least a complete breakdown if the landlord sends his own bill. Not to sound stupid though, but how can we swap electricity company if the supply is split for two flats. Would the upstairs flat also have to switch supplier?Thanks again,JP


You just answered your own question I think. It is split between two flats therefore it can be split between two flats.
What someone said earlier is true, your supplier can register the mpan number as it is called on the meters to the address registered. Depending on which area you live some DNO s have a "who is my supplier" feature on their website. For example the northeast DNO is Northern Powergrid and can use their website to find out what supplier your landlord is using. I don't know how it works legally, presumably your bill is left in your landlords name, which means the legal liability is his. Not saying you will but if you decide not to pay and it's not a bill that's written into your tenancy as being included in rent or a services payment I don't see how it could be forced onto you, as he has effectively given up that aspect of the transfer of liability that would normally happen when you move in ? (Maybe someone else could clarify)

Also I don't think a landlord can force you to stay on the current arrangement, usually the contract clauses about energy are at worst limited to notification that you are changing, info on who to and also asking sometimes that you revert back when you move out. Ofgem had a good guide on their website about legal rights for tenants regarding energy
jp297

Thank you for that, I'll make sure I'll try and get the actual bill or at … Thank you for that, I'll make sure I'll try and get the actual bill or at least a complete breakdown if the landlord sends his own bill. Not to sound stupid though, but how can we swap electricity company if the supply is split for two flats. Would the upstairs flat also have to switch supplier?Thanks again,JP



One meter and one supplier is billed for usage, you could swap supplier but the existing set up would remain.
See link for ofgems guide, may provide some more weight if you decide it's worth taking up with your landlord. I know for sure I wouldn't be comfortable with landlord choosing and paying. Ofgem guide for tenants
From an electricity design point of view any new flat meters usually have to be outside or in a communal area to prevent precisely this issue of one tenant all the time being bugged by someone else for a reason.
Banned
right meter is main supply

left meter is yours

connection box has got 6 or 10 mm cable which would supply other flat

right meter take way the total from left meter will give you the bill for upstairs flat.

needs checking out.
Original Poster
muddassarsardar

why don't u Just ask the landlord why there are 2 meters and ask him for … why don't u Just ask the landlord why there are 2 meters and ask him for the unit charge and standing charge to see if its actually a good rate or not me thinks hes Just blaggint it too u, one meter is probably owned by the electric company and One has been put in by landlord that's why its not in ur name or the other flats. i was wanting thinking of putting in a second meter for upstairs but it is privately owned by landlord not electric supplier



So in my situation lets say the left meter is privately owned and the right meter is owned by the electricity company (it does say EDF on it). The right meter reading is what goes to the electricity company and a proportion of the bill is established by the left meter. In this situation the meter would be in the landlords name so this would prevent me from changing supplier. If I'm right I guess this means I can't take advantage of a cheaper supplier.

Many thanks for your reply,

JP
jp297

So in my situation lets say the left meter is privately owned and the … So in my situation lets say the left meter is privately owned and the right meter is owned by the electricity company (it does say EDF on it). The right meter reading is what goes to the electricity company and a proportion of the bill is established by the left meter. In this situation the meter would be in the landlords name so this would prevent me from changing supplier. If I'm right I guess this means I can't take advantage of a cheaper supplier.Many thanks for your reply,JP


Each property has to be metered in a domestic building, so one meter is yours and the other is upstairs. All meters are owned by a supplier which is why one has edge written on it, the other was probably an original and has the old DNOs logo on it, with the second being added when the house was split in two. I think you should just be able to ring a supplier and provide move in readings to set an accoun up in your name. Your landlord should get a final bill as standard
joey1352

Each property has to be metered in a domestic building, so one meter is … Each property has to be metered in a domestic building, so one meter is yours and the other is upstairs. All meters are owned by a supplier which is why one has edge written on it, the other was probably an original and has the old DNOs logo on it, with the second being added when the house was split in two. I think you should just be able to ring a supplier and provide move in readings to set an accoun up in your name. Your landlord should get a final bill as standard




The supplier would not have installed a secondary meter in the same dwelling, the meter has been installed by the landlord.
Original Poster
joey1352

See link for ofgems guide, may provide some more weight if you decide … See link for ofgems guide, may provide some more weight if you decide it's worth taking up with your landlord. I know for sure I wouldn't be comfortable with landlord choosing and paying. Ofgem guide for tenantsFrom an electricity design point of view any new flat meters usually have to be outside or in a communal area to prevent precisely this issue of one tenant all the time being bugged by someone else for a reason.



Thank you Joey I'm very grateful for your time in replying.

I've started to read the earlier link for the Citizens Advice Bureau, but it states that if the landlord pays the bills then there is nothing I can do. Also just read the Ofgem guide and it seems to state the same. My assumption now is the landlord pays the bills as it will be in his name. However, after reading the quide I will request a full breakdown of the standing charges and unit rate. In this case I expect the standing charge to be divided equally amongst both flats, or could the landlord legally charge the full standing charge rate for both flats even though he is just paying for one?

Regards,

JP
Turn off a big electricity user like fire/heater and watch the meters (the one with spinning disk will be easier to watch) whichever one slows down - get a torch and turn off/unplug all your electrical appliances. If that same meter doesn't move for a few minutes you can identify which meter is yours. That's the easy way.
As others have said you should only pay for electric you have used - what if the other tenant hates the British climate and has heating on 24/7 and uses tumble drier etc...
I personally would contact the supplier as the meter wiring looks a bit suss but if you explain to the supplier you "might" get into trouble if the landlord is contacted/informed the supplier should understand and accept this and sort it for you. They are concerned about the safety of the end user not just the bill payer.
you should have clarified with the landlord when you moved in why there are 2 meters. under UK housing law of your contract does not state that the landlord will pay for utilities then the occupants are liable. look at your contract, it will normally state who is responsible for paying electrics, gas, water etc
Banned
your meter is on the left & the right one is for the 2nd flat.


You can tell that because the left meter supplies the central consumer unit & the consumer unit for the other flat will be in that flat.
YouDontWantToKnow

your meter is on the left & the right one is for the 2nd flat.You can … your meter is on the left & the right one is for the 2nd flat.You can tell that because the left meter supplies the central consumer unit & the consumer unit for the other flat will be in that flat.



Wrong.
Banned
transit

Wrong.



right.

explain
YouDontWantToKnow

right.explain



Ok well i have an advantage as i am a spark for a living but i'll explain as best i can....

The two black blocks pictured bottom right are the main electricity incoming supply fuse and neutral block.
The red and black tails from those blocks feed the black meter which is the suppliers meter.
The landlord has then taken two tails from that meter to the extension block pictured inbetween the consumer unit and left meter.
From the extension block he has fed the Op's meter and from that meter on the left back to the Op's consumer unit.
Now if you look carefully there is a 10mm2 twin and earth cable from the extension block that almost definitely feeds the next flat, you can see it dissapear in the bottom right of the picture.

The landlord could well have another meter in the next flat but these are meters he has installed himself to deduct the usage per flat from the main meter.

I hope this is pretty clear.
Banned
transit

Ok well i have an advantage as i am a spark for a living but i'll explain … Ok well i have an advantage as i am a spark for a living but i'll explain as best i can....The two black blocks pictured bottom right are the main electricity incoming supply fuse and neutral block.The red and black tails from those blocks feed the black meter which is the suppliers meter.The landlord has then taken two tails from that meter to the extension block pictured inbetween the consumer unit and left meter.From the extension block he has fed the Op's meter and from that meter on the left back to the Op's consumer unit.Now if you look carefully there is a 10mm2 twin and earth cable from the extension block that almost definitely feeds the next flat, you can see it dissapear in the bottom right of the picture.The landlord could well have another meter in the next flat but these are meters he has installed himself to deduct the usage per flat from the main meter.I hope this is pretty clear.



I stand corrected.

I didnt spot the tails going into the right meter.
YouDontWantToKnow

I stand corrected. I didnt spot the tails going into the right meter.



No worries, pretty shoddy set up tbh.
Original Poster
transit

No worries, pretty shoddy set up tbh.



Thank you so much for clearing that up, its much appreciated. I'll just have to wait to see what bill arrives now as I'm guessing it will be the landlords own invoice. I have a rough idea what it will be based on the amount used and daily standing charge, and hopefully they will split the standing charge by two if they are only paying one bill to the supplier for two flats.

Also thanks to everyone else who took the time to comment and make suggestions, I'm very grateful!

Kind regards,

JP
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