Uber says UK National Insurance contributions would cost millions

27
Top comments
Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you don't have to play fair isn't it?

Big business seems to be all about transferring paper work and risk to individuals to manage, instead of looking after it's own affairs and dealing with the uncertinaty of being in business.
Uber should pay every penny. And Yodel, AgeUK, Sportsdirect and anyone else using bogus self employment or zero hour contracts to get out of paying their obligations.

Where are the unions in all this? A ****ing joke they are.

They only fight for people earning a decent wage so they can take a cut in membership fees. No point trying to cream off the ones who earn a pittance they can't afford the subscription.
27 Comments
Some one was in the radio complaining last week from one of the transport bodies that taxi drivers for uber were having to work and rent their cars from them, had no employees rights and were in effect self employed. Funny that, it’s been going on in other parts of the country for years, most local tax office works this way, rents the cars to the drivers and treats them as self employed, there are others who own their own licence and still work for a taxi company another version of the same thing. Yes Uber has their faults but the self employed thing really isn’t new, might be in London but elsewhere it’s not.
Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you don't have to play fair isn't it?

Big business seems to be all about transferring paper work and risk to individuals to manage, instead of looking after it's own affairs and dealing with the uncertinaty of being in business.
Get on your bike !
(no hang on)
get a proper transport system London !

I understand you have been very trying

good luck
MSK.5 h, 51 m ago

Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you …Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you don't have to play fair isn't it?Big business seems to be all about transferring paper work and risk to individuals to manage, instead of looking after it's own affairs and dealing with the uncertinaty of being in business.


Brilliant point, in bizarre morbid and twisted logic, the existing law supports the notion that big business risks are better borne by workers than by businesses whose HQs or associative companies are overseas.
Uber should pay every penny. And Yodel, AgeUK, Sportsdirect and anyone else using bogus self employment or zero hour contracts to get out of paying their obligations.

Where are the unions in all this? A ****ing joke they are.

They only fight for people earning a decent wage so they can take a cut in membership fees. No point trying to cream off the ones who earn a pittance they can't afford the subscription.
Original Poster
MSK.9 h, 56 m ago

Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you …Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you don't have to play fair isn't it?Big business seems to be all about transferring paper work and risk to individuals to manage, instead of looking after it's own affairs and dealing with the uncertinaty of being in business.



MSK.9 h, 56 m ago

Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you …Funny how it's easy to make a vast profit out of a business, when you don't have to play fair isn't it?Big business seems to be all about transferring paper work and risk to individuals to manage, instead of looking after it's own affairs and dealing with the uncertinaty of being in business.


Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street corner yet x amount of their staff are on working tax credit. I know it's not straightforward because it's unrealistic for Tesco to pay a car parking attendant enough so that they are not reliant on a government tax credit to make ends meet. But then again car parking facilities are all part of Tesco's business, it's their issue to sort out. Working tax credit it my pet hate and I am most certainly not looking at the people receiving it, rather the companies that run their business employing people who need it.
The government needs to crack down on companies which label their employees as self employed. The gig economy is a joke and has been allowed to grow unabated for far too long. It is nothing but exploitative.
OllieSt1 h, 23 m ago

Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street …Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street corner yet x amount of their staff are on working tax credit. I know it's not straightforward because it's unrealistic for Tesco to pay a car parking attendant enough so that they are not reliant on a government tax credit to make ends meet. But then again car parking facilities are all part of Tesco's business, it's their issue to sort out. Working tax credit it my pet hate and I am most certainly not looking at the people receiving it, rather the companies that run their business employing people who need it.




Was looking at local jobs recently. WHSMiths want a cleaner. 0.5hrs a week. WTF is that supposed to be? Car park will take half your wage.
OllieSt1 h, 45 m ago

Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street …Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street corner yet x amount of their staff are on working tax credit. I know it's not straightforward because it's unrealistic for Tesco to pay a car parking attendant enough so that they are not reliant on a government tax credit to make ends meet. But then again car parking facilities are all part of Tesco's business, it's their issue to sort out. Working tax credit it my pet hate and I am most certainly not looking at the people receiving it, rather the companies that run their business employing people who need it.


Socialism with free market capialism in the Nordic Model way is the way for us post brexit.
RossD893 h, 11 m ago

The government needs to crack down on companies which label their …The government needs to crack down on companies which label their employees as self employed. The gig economy is a joke and has been allowed to grow unabated for far too long. It is nothing but exploitative.


Honestly I wish where I worked classed me as self employed. There are so many benefits you can have with a decent accountant you’d pay 5-10% tax, flag your office at home for depreciation costs as well as claiming mileage as a business expense. I’d be much better off
OllieSt3 h, 51 m ago

Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street …Yeah it really irks me. The nation has a Tesco variant on every street corner yet x amount of their staff are on working tax credit. I know it's not straightforward because it's unrealistic for Tesco to pay a car parking attendant enough so that they are not reliant on a government tax credit to make ends meet. But then again car parking facilities are all part of Tesco's business, it's their issue to sort out. Working tax credit it my pet hate and I am most certainly not looking at the people receiving it, rather the companies that run their business employing people who need it.



Since working tax credit cost is £28 billion, this is £933 p.a. average income tax for every salaried person in the UK inclusive those who earned too little to pay tax. So if you spend £10,000 per person on average on goods and services which rely on workers with working tax credits, excluding mortgages and rent, this £933 is used to subsidise the cheaper prices or greater profits.
Dannyrobbo1 h, 29 m ago

Honestly I wish where I worked classed me as self employed. There are so …Honestly I wish where I worked classed me as self employed. There are so many benefits you can have with a decent accountant you’d pay 5-10% tax, flag your office at home for depreciation costs as well as claiming mileage as a business expense. I’d be much better off


No 20+8 days holiday, sick pay, maternity, employment rights, work withdrawn and nothing you can do about it. Throw a pay rise out of the window. I was "self employed" and took a 20-30% pay cut from my "employer" while teachers striked because they were only getting a 1% pay rise.
splatsplatsplat33 m ago

No 20+8 days holiday, sick pay, maternity, employment rights, work …No 20+8 days holiday, sick pay, maternity, employment rights, work withdrawn and nothing you can do about it. Throw a pay rise out of the window. I was "self employed" and took a 20-30% pay cut from my "employer" while teachers striked because they were only getting a 1% pay rise.



I guess maybe different sectors would approach this different ways. I know my work has a rate and an employer would get no real applicants for anything less. There’s a major skills shortage mind but I’d be much better off every month
All the EU lovies saying how great it is for fining Ireland over tax loop hole with Apple this happened not discretely but right in their face for years. Although we all (well some) take advantage of Uber Amazon et al for there cheap prices there has to come a time when there in the sky tax fiddles has to end. They might say the workers pay taxes and that makes it ok but for the sake of our own high street and government coffers the sooner the better.
morrig10 m ago

All the EU lovies saying how great it is for fining Ireland over tax loop …All the EU lovies saying how great it is for fining Ireland over tax loop hole with Apple this happened not discretely but right in their face for years. Although we all (well some) take advantage of Uber Amazon et al for there cheap prices there has to come a time when there in the sky tax fiddles has to end. They might say the workers pay taxes and that makes it ok but for the sake of our own high street and government coffers the sooner the better.


Is it not a vicious cycle? If people were treated fairly by the businesses they were employed by, they may not need to look for the absolute cheapest everything all the time.

But I've also have t say at this point, Amazon are only cheap 3 days a year, they are just convenient. Apple have never been cheap. Can't comment on Uber, it only ever operated in very select areas of the country.

So I don't think that argument holds water on two different levels.
morrig1 h, 38 m ago

All the EU lovies saying how great it is for fining Ireland over tax loop …All the EU lovies saying how great it is for fining Ireland over tax loop hole with Apple this happened not discretely but right in their face for years. Although we all (well some) take advantage of Uber Amazon et al for there cheap prices there has to come a time when there in the sky tax fiddles has to end. They might say the workers pay taxes and that makes it ok but for the sake of our own high street and government coffers the sooner the better.



Will Apple not just now move operations elsewhere and harm the government and local workforce more?
Dannyrobbo58 m ago

Will Apple not just now move operations elsewhere and harm the government …Will Apple not just now move operations elsewhere and harm the government and local workforce more?


Nope, market forces prevail and unit exchanges of effort will settle down to a new equilibrium.
Original Poster
MSK.3 h, 28 m ago

Amazon are only cheap 3 days a year, they are just convenient.


It depends what you mean by cheap. I ordered a SNES mini classic this morning and got it delivered today. That was cheap.

They also DEFAULT suggested I leave the driver a £2.00 tip - that's cheap too.

If Amazon thinks the guy deserves an extra £2 to make my delivery, then pay him the £2. A really cheap tactic, and if I wanted to give the guy a tip (I didn't and most probably never will feel the need) I wouldn't do it through their website, I would just give the guy cash in hand.

What next, will I be given the opportunity to tip my postman each time he delivers a letter?
Original Poster
I see Deliveroo are also missing the point.



The boss of Deliveroo has warned MPs that if the company is forced to give workers basic rights such as the minimum wage and holiday and sick pay it will pass the cost on to consumers by raising the cost of delivery by £1. Dan Warne, Deliveroo’s managing director of the UK and Ireland, told parliament’s business committee that the cost of providing rights to workers would be borne by customers ordering takeaways.


If it all it takes is an extra £1 a delivery to ensure workers get basic rights then do it. It's clear to me that if a business is concerned about their customers at the expense of their staff there's something fundamentally wrong with their business ethics and that's clearly displayed.

The cost of providing rights to workers would be borne by customers ordering takeaways.

So the Deliveroo boss will not see his company's profits affected by doing the right thing. Every dog has it's day and their business model is easily copied.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 11th Oct 2017
splender1 h, 22 m ago

Nope, market forces prevail and unit exchanges of effort will settle down …Nope, market forces prevail and unit exchanges of effort will settle down to a new equilibrium.



You are pretty naive if you think that the 13 billion ruling will not harm operations in Europe in the future. Tim Cook said this himself in the statement on the matter.
OllieSt1 h, 5 m ago

It depends what you mean by cheap. I ordered a SNES mini classic this …It depends what you mean by cheap. I ordered a SNES mini classic this morning and got it delivered today. That was cheap.They also DEFAULT suggested I leave the driver a £2.00 tip - that's cheap too.If Amazon thinks the guy deserves an extra £2 to make my delivery, then pay him the £2. A really cheap tactic, and if I wanted to give the guy a tip (I didn't and most probably never will feel the need) I wouldn't do it through their website, I would just give the guy cash in hand.What next, will I be given the opportunity to tip my postman each time he delivers a letter?


You were asked to tip someone from Amazon logistics? I've never heard of that before.
Dannyrobbo1 h, 30 m ago

You are pretty naive if you think that the 13 billion ruling will not harm …You are pretty naive if you think that the 13 billion ruling will not harm operations in Europe in the future. Tim Cook said this himself in the statement on the matter.



You can find naive people on both sides. You are saying one naive person is better than the other expert.

You can find expert people on both sides. You are saying one expert person is better than the other expert.

Are you naive as to what makes a person expert and another naive? You are naive, other than this 13 billion where is the total balance sheet , for and against, in excel format in which you plucked this 13 billion from?

Could you show your non-naivety by defining to us here what is your understanding of "13 billion rule" is about?

What has Tim Cook got to do with your point?
Edited by: "splender" 11th Oct 2017
Original Poster
MSK.39 m ago

You were asked to tip someone from Amazon logistics? I've never heard of …You were asked to tip someone from Amazon logistics? I've never heard of that before.


Yes for Amazon Prime Now it's always added by default as 'suggested tip'. By tipping it's just allowing Amazon to continue treating delivery drivers (can't be bothered to look but I would be sure they'll be more 'self employed' low paid people) poorly.
OllieSt9 m ago

Yes for Amazon Prime Now it's always added by default as 'suggested tip'. …Yes for Amazon Prime Now it's always added by default as 'suggested tip'. By tipping it's just allowing Amazon to continue treating delivery drivers (can't be bothered to look but I would be sure they'll be more 'self employed' low paid people) poorly.


Oh, we don't have Prime Now, that must be why I haven't seen it. I don't like the idea that you pay for Prime then still get hassled for a tip either.

Zero hour agency off the top of my head, but don't hold me to that. It was a while ago now that I checked. Or was that warehouse? Either way none of it's great.
splender40 m ago

You can find naive people on both sides. You are saying one naive person …You can find naive people on both sides. You are saying one naive person is better than the other expert. You can find expert people on both sides. You are saying one expert person is better than the other expert.Are you naive as to what makes a person expert and another naive? You are naive, other than this 13 billion where is the total balance sheet , for and against, in excel format in which you plucked this 13 billion from? Could you show your non-naivety by defining to us here what is your understanding of "13 billion rule" is about?What has Tim Cook got to do with your point?



splender40 m ago

You can find naive people on both sides. You are saying one naive person …You can find naive people on both sides. You are saying one naive person is better than the other expert. You can find expert people on both sides. You are saying one expert person is better than the other expert.Are you naive as to what makes a person expert and another naive? You are naive, other than this 13 billion where is the total balance sheet , for and against, in excel format in which you plucked this 13 billion from? Could you show your non-naivety by defining to us here what is your understanding of "13 billion rule" is about?What has Tim Cook got to do with your point?



Granted Apple are never going to pay but the EU is taking Ireland to court the 13 billion euros in is taxes dating back to 2003 plus interest. It’s heading to the European courts of justice as it considers it amounted to state aid.

as for the Tim Cook you know the CEO of Apple laying a veiled threat to the security of jobs in Ireland and the EU as well as investment. I’ve no doubt that when the next movement of operations happens ie the recent relocation of iTunes to Ireland will not come this way, or into Europe as a whole.

What hat do you understand about apples tax bill, feel free to attach a copy of what you calculated in excel format as you seem to have it all mapped ou
Dannyrobbo1 h, 8 m ago

Granted Apple are never going to pay but the EU is taking Ireland to court …Granted Apple are never going to pay but the EU is taking Ireland to court the 13 billion euros in is taxes dating back to 2003 plus interest. It’s heading to the European courts of justice as it considers it amounted to state aid.as for the Tim Cook you know the CEO of Apple laying a veiled threat to the security of jobs in Ireland and the EU as well as investment. I’ve no doubt that when the next movement of operations happens ie the recent relocation of iTunes to Ireland will not come this way, or into Europe as a whole. What hat do you understand about apples tax bill, feel free to attach a copy of what you calculated in excel format as you seem to have it all mapped ou



So you have no fact and no figures on a spreadsheet to substantiate the impact of that 13 billion tax dodge, and I am happy to accept your plagiarism on this occasion, what makes you distinguished by being claiming not-naive when you accuse others of being naive?

Besides what have the effects of a tax dodge got to do with the effects of market force capitalism? If Ireland had comply with EU taxation directives and rules then Apple would not have placed HQ in Ireland. Likewise if Luxembourg had not bent the rules for Amazon, then Amazon would not have landed there because of market forces.
Edited by: "splender" 11th Oct 2017
splender8 h, 50 m ago

So you have no fact and no figures on a spreadsheet to substantiate the …So you have no fact and no figures on a spreadsheet to substantiate the impact of that 13 billion tax dodge, and I am happy to accept your plagiarism on this occasion, what makes you distinguished by being claiming not-naive when you accuse others of being naive?Besides what have the effects of a tax dodge got to do with the effects of market force capitalism? If Ireland had comply with EU taxation directives and rules then Apple would not have placed HQ in Ireland. Likewise if Luxembourg had not bent the rules for Amazon, then Amazon would not have landed there because of market forces.



You don’t make much sense here . Apple did land in Ireland and make more profit under their taxation rules which have been ruled against, in the future are they really going to stay there if they can make more profit by moving their headquarters elsewhere. I guess time will tell, but really am I going to attach an excel spreadsheet to an online forum to discus my opinion on apples tax situation?

My point is simple Apple may be able to make more by exploiting a tax loophole elsewhere why wouldn’t it move? cut the corporate buzzwords and give a straight answer.
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Top Discussions

    Top Merchants