Universal Basic Income, Would UBI work in the UK?

76
Edited by:"SOUTHWALES"Found 9th Nov 2017
Would UBI work in the UK. Why have half the country working and the other half sitting at home, there is not enough jobs for everyone so why not allow UBI credit and everyone does part time work were possible so there is enough jobscto go around.
news.sky.com/sto…005

Martinnen lives in Paloheinä, a suburb of Helsinki, and is a participant in a radical social experiment.

Every month, she gets €560 (£495) from the Finnish Government.

And that's it. She doesn't have to prove she's looking for a job, undergo training or be assessed for how fit she is to work. The money just lands in her bank account.

As working patterns change and as automation threatens more jobs, including white collar ones, people are looking for unorthodox solutions. Universal Basic Income (UBI) is perhaps the most controversial of them all.

Here's the idea: scrap the welfare state. Instead, pay every man, woman and child a monthly stipend - whether they have a job or not, whether they're wealthy or not.

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coys673 m ago

There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a …There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a month that will be £180 billion extra we have to find a year to pay for it, add to that lost tax revenue from people who decided to quit their jobs.Thats roughly the NHS and defence budget combined.How do we pay for it?


HOLD TIGHT, I HAVE JUST THE PERSON FOR CHECKING THE NUMBERS...

32402576-mfX6x.jpg

and at the same time why not invite all the poor people of the 3rd world to immigrate into the UK and receive UBI in the UK, more money than they can earn in their country?
76 Comments

GShort of cutting admin I'm not sure of the point as that isn't very much money, i read about this before in an article which also stated what the avarage rents and wages etc are, it really is a basic, it wouldn't pay rent so benefits would still be needed, it might just help those working who currently get a small top up to avoid the admin of benefits but you would still need other benefits and the admin in addition to this universal bit of cash
Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 9th Nov 2017

Back in the day, pre Corbyn, it was called a different name. Communism

Sure there is a thread on this, suspect eventually when robots / automation takes over the world there will be no choice but to have this. But need to get the tax system working right first or there will be no money to pay for it. But since the media got wind of what companies have been doing 5 years ago and the government knew about it for decades and still nothing has been done don’t expect it in my lifetime.

Dilithium2 m ago

Back in the day, pre Corbyn, it was called a different name. Communism


Only if in addition to your basic income you where employed by the state to work at a state owned company and live in a state owned apartment, but carry on with your lack of understanding if you wish

and at the same time why not invite all the poor people of the 3rd world to immigrate into the UK and receive UBI in the UK, more money than they can earn in their country?

So the better off would get a lot wealthier while the poor would go hungry.

jax6198 m ago

Hell no I work hard for my money


So you would say no to some more ?
eslick9 m ago

Sure there is a thread on this, suspect eventually when robots / …Sure there is a thread on this, suspect eventually when robots / automation takes over the world there will be no choice but to have this. But need to get the tax system working right first or there will be no money to pay for it. But since the media got wind of what companies have been doing 5 years ago and the government knew about it for decades and still nothing has been done don’t expect it in my lifetime.



hotukdeals.com/dis…137
Edited by: "Wongy110" 9th Nov 2017

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy

Wongy11010 m ago

So you would say no to some more …So you would say no to some more ?https://www.hotukdeals.com/discussions/finland-considering-minimum-income-paid-to-everyone-unemployed-or-working-2270137


You beat me to it wongy, thanks
Edited by: "MSK." 9th Nov 2017

jax6199 m ago

Id rather not get more and others get none


.... and this would be how we end up Bretix,Trump,'paradise papers'....

MSK.6 m ago

You beat me to it wongy, thanks



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bigbaz56 m ago

So the better off would get a lot wealthier while the poor would go hungry.


Or they could you know... get a job?
This scheme isn't a substitute for working.

The government should pay for people to get trained and be on apprenticeship to gain skills. There are jobs in demand and no one to do. Plumbers, electricians, IT etc.

The training given to those claiming benefits are often useless and so dont get them work.

There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a month that will be £180 billion extra we have to find a year to pay for it, add to that lost tax revenue from people who decided to quit their jobs.

Thats roughly the NHS and defence budget combined.

How do we pay for it?

coys673 m ago

There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a …There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a month that will be £180 billion extra we have to find a year to pay for it, add to that lost tax revenue from people who decided to quit their jobs.Thats roughly the NHS and defence budget combined.How do we pay for it?


HOLD TIGHT, I HAVE JUST THE PERSON FOR CHECKING THE NUMBERS...

32402576-mfX6x.jpg

davewave4 m ago

HOLD TIGHT, I HAVE JUST THE PERSON FOR CHECKING THE NUMBERS...[Image]


coys6710 m ago

There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a …There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a month that will be £180 billion extra we have to find a year to pay for it, add to that lost tax revenue from people who decided to quit their jobs.Thats roughly the NHS and defence budget combined.How do we pay for it?


Automation.

The problem with welfare (jsa,tax credits,universal credit) Is that as income goes up, the safety net goes down. This makes people see no point in working harder.
What needs to be done, is give people a set amount regardless of their situation and then give small topups for every hour worked. The more you work the more you are paid (sounds familiar?)

Even the work shy will try any old job (cutting grass, washing cars) just so they can grab the extra payments.

I'd like to think that out of the population I am in the top 50%, if not 10% at the job I do. Even if everyone had the same training I've had I'd like to think that I'd still be in the top 20%. So if I decide to do half of a job and then someone else does the other half chances are that the job isn't going to be done as well. As a rule of thumb more often than not the people who have/get the jobs are better at it than the people who don't, so if everyone dropped to part time work, there would be many more people less suited to that job doing it. Which I don't think would work out very well.

Destard31 m ago

Or they could you know... get a job?This scheme isn't a substitute for …Or they could you know... get a job?This scheme isn't a substitute for working.


You seem to have completely missed my point, why would you give someone who has a good income an extra £500 per month.

Krooner6 m ago

Automation.


How on Earth is automation going to provide tax revenue for the government?

coys6712 m ago

How on Earth is automation going to provide tax revenue for the government?


They system would be taxed in that same way the individual it has taken over from would've been.

coys6733 m ago

There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a …There are 30 million working people in the UK, if we give them all £500 a month that will be £180 billion extra we have to find a year to pay for it, add to that lost tax revenue from people who decided to quit their jobs.Thats roughly the NHS and defence budget combined.How do we pay for it?


How much do you think it costs to means test people for benefits?

MSK.10 m ago

How much do you think it costs to means test people for benefits?

gives someone a job though?

Krooner16 m ago

They system would be taxed in that same way the individual it has taken …They system would be taxed in that same way the individual it has taken over from would've been.


Not sure how that would work tbh, when a worker spends their wages they pays VAT etc and the money they spend goes toward paying the income tax of the person/company that receives their money, and so on and so forth, eventually 100% of every penny earned goes back to the treasury, now if you say to a business owner we are going to tax your machines 100% of its earnings they are going to move to a country without such draconian rules imo.

davewave3 m ago

gives someone a job though?


That's not a number is it?

MSK.1 m ago

That's not a number is it?


Wow, lighten up maybe?

MSK.15 m ago

How much do you think it costs to means test people for benefits?


Yes that is true, it does cost a lot to maintain the system we have and would have to be taken into account in the figures.

splatsplatsplat42 m ago

The problem with welfare (jsa,tax credits,universal credit) Is that as …The problem with welfare (jsa,tax credits,universal credit) Is that as income goes up, the safety net goes down. This makes people see no point in working harder.What needs to be done, is give people a set amount regardless of their situation and then give small topups for every hour worked. The more you work the more you are paid (sounds familiar?)Even the work shy will try any old job (cutting grass, washing cars) just so they can grab the extra payments.


Give the man a cigar! He's just invented working tax credits......oh wait

MSK.21 m ago

How much do you think it costs to means test people for benefits?


According to this

instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sit…pdf

The DWP costs just under a £1billion a year to run, although any incoming system would also have a cost as well.

coys6712 m ago

Not sure how that would work tbh, when a worker spends their wages they …Not sure how that would work tbh, when a worker spends their wages they pays VAT etc and the money they spend goes toward paying the income tax of the person/company that receives their money, and so on and so forth, eventually 100% of every penny earned goes back to the treasury, now if you say to a business owner we are going to tax your machines 100% of its earnings they are going to move to a country without such draconian rules imo.


It's hardly draconian, socially responsible is how I'd describe it.

The pay off would be that you'd only need to pay your surrogate worker 40 hours a week say, without having to turn the machine off. 8 operation hours a day deductible, the rest is the incentive.

davewave1 h, 0 m ago

HOLD TIGHT, I HAVE JUST THE PERSON FOR CHECKING THE NUMBERS...[Image]


THAT IS THE BEST THING EVER POSTED ON THIS SITE!

Krooner8 m ago

It's hardly draconian, socially responsible is how I'd describe it.The pay …It's hardly draconian, socially responsible is how I'd describe it.The pay off would be that you'd only need to pay your surrogate worker 40 hours a week say, without having to turn the machine off. 8 operation hours a day deductible, the rest is the incentive.


Thats great if the reason people are running businesses is for the benefit of mankind, most are doing it to make as much cash for their shareholders as they can though and all prohibitive tax laws will do is drive them elsewhere.

coys6724 m ago

Thats great if the reason people are running businesses is for the benefit …Thats great if the reason people are running businesses is for the benefit of mankind, most are doing it to make as much cash for their shareholders as they can though and all prohibitive tax laws will do is drive them elsewhere.


How can you make cash out of people who have none because everything is automated?

Its a great idea with lots of positives, assuming it's taxed income. So much of our society would have to change to make it viable, both peoples attitudes and so many regulations.

Thread/
32403382-Aj62V.jpg


The Finnish trial if anybody could be bothered to read up on it

is being run by a right wing government/minister
Edited by: "Wongy110" 9th Nov 2017

Segata-Sanshiro30 m ago

How can you make cash out of people who have none because everything is …How can you make cash out of people who have none because everything is automated?


People can re-train into other industries, its happened before during the Industrial Revolution then again with the massive leap in IT, any changes will lead to hundreds of new avenues that will exploited and turned into thriving businesses that might be unthought of at this moment in time, we need to give those companies the right environment to thrive, less red tape, lower taxes, less government interference etc.

Wongy11017 m ago

Thread/[Image] The Finnish trial if anybody could be bothered to read up …Thread/[Image] The Finnish trial if anybody could be bothered to read up on itis being run by a right wing government/minister


Doesn't matter who thinks these things up, any idea should be able to stand on its own merits, usually its left wingers driven by their ideologies that come up with this sort of nonsense agreed but there are a few dipsticks on the right as well.

Free money?, Where do I sign?.

coys676 m ago

Doesn't matter who thinks these things up, any idea should be able to …Doesn't matter who thinks these things up, any idea should be able to stand on its own merits, usually its left wingers driven by their ideologies that come up with this sort of nonsense agreed but there are a few dipsticks on the right as well.


You right it does not matter who thinks these things up as long as someone does and the good one are implemented
This one has legs precisely because it is not driven by political left/right winds
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