U.S. confirms withdrawal from U.N.E.S.C.O at the end of 2017.

29
Found 12th Oct 2017
After the proposed withdrawal from the Paris Agreement, and the lukewarm words regarding the U.N. and N.A.T.O, what does the future hold for U.S. engagement with the rest of the world on global issues? If Trump wins a second term to take him through to 2025, will these organisations continue to operate in anything like the way the do so today, or even cease to exist at all?. Is this a coordinated plan as part of increased U.S. isolationism, or just the Trump administration addressing the disproportionate amount they feel the U.S. contributes to global matters? Do we value organisations such as these in their current form, or are they relatively worthless as countries pay increasingly less attention to what they supposedly stand for in terms of human rights, rule of law, diplomatic resolutions etc? Will anyone miss the 'World's Policemen' - and will any other country choose to occupy the space vacated by the U.S. in recent years?
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teh.arn11 m ago

Trump wont win a second term.It looks unlikely that he's even last his …Trump wont win a second term.It looks unlikely that he's even last his first.....


oh ok I guess you successfully predicted Brexit and Trump presidency?
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UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders will have less support?
Original Poster
davewave17 m ago

UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders …UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders will have less support?


It is the direction of travel for U.S. foreign policy that I am raising to discuss. Is the more general (potential) retreat a concern?
Trump wont win a second term.
It looks unlikely that he's even last his first.....
Edited by: "teh.arn" 12th Oct 2017
teh.arn11 m ago

Trump wont win a second term.It looks unlikely that he's even last his …Trump wont win a second term.It looks unlikely that he's even last his first.....


oh ok I guess you successfully predicted Brexit and Trump presidency?
It was a great missed opportunity for the American people and for the world that Hilary Clinton did not drop out as the most remarkable feature of the 2016 US election was Bernie Sanders' campaign. The reluctance of the American people to embrace a bit of socialism....as a consequence the direction forward is big business corporates which drive foreign policy and domestic policy. Trump is the king of the pack, don't get distracted by his antics and his dominance of the airtime, as the main show is the Republican Party's constituents and power base. No one can stop his antics but do not be mesmerised by what says and twitters, look carefully what are being rolled out while others are distracted and follow the revenue streams.
Edited by: "splender" 12th Oct 2017
splender7 m ago

It was a great missed opportunity for the American people and for the …It was a great missed opportunity for the American people and for the world that Hilary Clinton did not drop out as the most remarkable feature of the 2016 US election was Bernie Sanders' campaign. The reluctance of the American people to embrace a bit of socialism....as a consequence the direction forward is big business corporates which drive foreign policy and domestic policy. Trump is the king of the pack, don't get distracted by his antics and his dominance of the airtime, as the main show is the Republican Party's constituents and power base.


oh ok, how do you feel about the corruption within the UN?
davewave13 m ago

oh ok, how do you feel about the corruption within the UN?



Unavoidable for anything united and depends on how one defines corruption. The word corruption has different etymological meanings around the world.
Why is it unavoidable, this is because the members have different power, money and alliances. It takes time for a version 3 of UN to emerge and this is probably going to be WW3 : WW1 -> League of Nations, WW2 -> United Nation, WW3 (fought with AI and rise of machines) -> ? perhaps United Humanity.
Edited by: "splender" 12th Oct 2017
splender3 m ago

Unavoidable for anything united and depends on how one defines corruption. …Unavoidable for anything united and depends on how one defines corruption. The word corruption has different etymological meanings around the world.Why is it unavoidable, this is because the members have different power, money and alliances. It takes time for a version 3 of UN to emerge and this is probably going to be WW3 : WW1 -> League of Nations, WW2 -> United Nation, WW3 (fought with AI and rise of machines) -> ? perhaps United Humanity.


Thanks, needed a chuckle.
davewave14 m ago

Thanks, needed a chuckle.



A bit of jest, however do yourself a sense check, using the ABC Methodology ( Antecedent-Behavior-Consequence ) since Trump came into office and review this after 4 years, and see how much weapons have been sold. One ABC chart for Trump and one ABC chart for behind-the-antics.
Edited by: "splender" 12th Oct 2017
splender1 m ago

A bit of jest, however do yourself a sense check, using the ABC …A bit of jest, however do yourself a sense check, using the ABC Methodology ( Antecedent-Behavior-Consequence ) since Trump came into office and review this after 4 years, and see how much weapons have been sold.


yeah great, what do you do for fun?
davewave53 s ago

yeah great, what do you do for fun?



same as you
splender4 m ago

same as you


what's that then?
davewave1 m ago

what's that then?



Miscellaneous
splender41 s ago

Miscellaneous


cheers, same as Destard perhaps?
davewave4 m ago

cheers, same as Destard perhaps?



I don't know as yet. May be we can have a 3-way chat here to determine this. Can I accept your answer as having fun here in miscellanoeus?
splender22 m ago

I don't know as yet. May be we can have a 3-way chat here to determine …I don't know as yet. May be we can have a 3-way chat here to determine this. Can I accept your answer as having fun here in miscellanoeus?


ha ha ha
Original Poster
davewave15 m ago

ha ha ha


Dave' - At the time of writing this, you have contributed 50% of the comments in this thread. I often see you imploring other members to 'stay on topic' in other threads. Would you like to contribute something of more value and relevance to this topic?
The US is in and out of UNESCO all the time, last time they left in protest that palestine wasnt recognised as a member, one of the reasons this time is that they giving Israel grief, they cant make up their minds.
"U.S. confirms withdrawal from U.N.E.S.C.O at the end of 2017."

'
The US withdrawal will become effective at the end of December 2018 - until then, the US will remain a full member.'

Also - 'Israel has said it will join the US in pulling out of the UN's cultural organisation Unesco' - BBC Link
Edited by: "tregs" 12th Oct 2017
Saturn51 m ago

Dave' - At the time of writing this, you have contributed 50% of the …Dave' - At the time of writing this, you have contributed 50% of the comments in this thread. I often see you imploring other members to 'stay on topic' in other threads. Would you like to contribute something of more value and relevance to this topic?


Saturn, you're on ignore, shame mate. Heres my thoughts...

UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders will have less support?

Here's what The Guardian reported on Unesco

A private memo obtained by the Guardian shows that two French cabinet ministers have intervened directly with the secretariat of Unesco to ensure that former presidential aides would be given cushy senior positions in the Paris-based UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation.Such cronyism reaches into almost every corner of Unesco, according to young professionals who despair of salvaging the organisation they work for. Nepotism is also rife, they say, after watching well-paid jobs go to mistresses and family members.

Some staff say that with mismanagement so pervasive, it may make little difference who becomes the next director general - a secret ballot by the executive council begins today with a Japanese candidate, Koichiro Matsuuro, the favourite to replace Federico Mayor, the Spanish biochemist who has held the post for 12 years.

Documents seen by the Guardian indicate that the international body has reformed little in the decade since its name became a byword for inefficiency, nepotism and corruption - practices that caused the United States and Britain to pull out as members, although Britain has since rejoined.

As well as the memorandum to Mr Mayor from one of his deputies informing him of two French ministerial interventions, a damning independent audit commissioned and carried out by the Canadian government is heavily critical of almost every area of Unesco's operations.

Cronyism seems all but endemic, with about 40% of the organisation's appointments and promotions failing to meet Unesco's own criteria for fair competition, the audit says.

The report has been in the hands of Unesco's ambassadors and its secretariat for nearly a year, yet staff say they have seen no action taken on its critical conclusions.

To judge from the report, Unesco has also learned little from the 1980s accusations of fund-wasting on a huge scale. The organisation is stuffed with bosses: it has promoted so many managers to senior posts and taken on so many consultants that, despite a two-yearly budget of $544m (£340m), it cannot afford the properly qualified staff it needs to run its programmes effectively.

The audit report also found that Unesco failed to measure programmes to see what taxpayers around the world and recipients had got for the money spent. Neither did it systematically assess the impact of what its programmes. Most internal accounting and audit procedures were inadequate, and computers were so outdated that this year it is possible that no final accounting figures may be produced.

Unesco will not confirm who the candidates are for this week's election but, sources say, the ballot will be decided by much political horse-trading.

Edited by: "davewave" 12th Oct 2017
Original Poster
davewave19 m ago

Saturn, you're on ignore, shame mate. Heres my thoughts...UN is more …Saturn, you're on ignore, shame mate. Heres my thoughts...UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders will have less support?Here's what The Guardian reported on UnescoA private memo obtained by the Guardian shows that two French cabinet ministers have intervened directly with the secretariat of Unesco to ensure that former presidential aides would be given cushy senior positions in the Paris-based UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation.Such cronyism reaches into almost every corner of Unesco, according to young professionals who despair of salvaging the organisation they work for. Nepotism is also rife, they say, after watching well-paid jobs go to mistresses and family members.Some staff say that with mismanagement so pervasive, it may make little difference who becomes the next director general - a secret ballot by the executive council begins today with a Japanese candidate, Koichiro Matsuuro, the favourite to replace Federico Mayor, the Spanish biochemist who has held the post for 12 years.Documents seen by the Guardian indicate that the international body has reformed little in the decade since its name became a byword for inefficiency, nepotism and corruption - practices that caused the United States and Britain to pull out as members, although Britain has since rejoined.As well as the memorandum to Mr Mayor from one of his deputies informing him of two French ministerial interventions, a damning independent audit commissioned and carried out by the Canadian government is heavily critical of almost every area of Unesco's operations.Cronyism seems all but endemic, with about 40% of the organisation's appointments and promotions failing to meet Unesco's own criteria for fair competition, the audit says.The report has been in the hands of Unesco's ambassadors and its secretariat for nearly a year, yet staff say they have seen no action taken on its critical conclusions.To judge from the report, Unesco has also learned little from the 1980s accusations of fund-wasting on a huge scale. The organisation is stuffed with bosses: it has promoted so many managers to senior posts and taken on so many consultants that, despite a two-yearly budget of $544m (£340m), it cannot afford the properly qualified staff it needs to run its programmes effectively.The audit report also found that Unesco failed to measure programmes to see what taxpayers around the world and recipients had got for the money spent. Neither did it systematically assess the impact of what its programmes. Most internal accounting and audit procedures were inadequate, and computers were so outdated that this year it is possible that no final accounting figures may be produced.Unesco will not confirm who the candidates are for this week's election but, sources say, the ballot will be decided by much political horse-trading.



Not sure why I am on ignore, but I trust I am in good and plentiful company. On the basis that you are making an exception in engaging in this thread, do you have a more recent source than an article dated 18th October 1999? It does seem rather strange to respond to the content of a story that could legally drink and get married without parental permission in the UK next week.

Also, any thoughts on how this plays with current and potential future U.S. foreign policy - as per the subject of the thread?
catbeans35 m ago

The US is in and out of UNESCO all the time, last time they left in …The US is in and out of UNESCO all the time, last time they left in protest that palestine wasnt recognised as a member, one of the reasons this time is that they giving Israel grief, they cant make up their minds.


No last time that left was when Palestine was made a member and this time they are leaving due to the obvious anti-Israeli sentiment
davewave33 m ago

Saturn, you're on ignore, shame mate. Heres my thoughts...UN is more …Saturn, you're on ignore, shame mate. Heres my thoughts...UN is more corrupt than FIFA or EU, who cares that some UNESCO freeloaders will have less support?Here's what The Guardian reported on UnescoA private memo obtained by the Guardian shows that two French cabinet ministers have intervened directly with the secretariat of Unesco to ensure that former presidential aides would be given cushy senior positions in the Paris-based UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation.Such cronyism reaches into almost every corner of Unesco, according to young professionals who despair of salvaging the organisation they work for. Nepotism is also rife, they say, after watching well-paid jobs go to mistresses and family members.Some staff say that with mismanagement so pervasive, it may make little difference who becomes the next director general - a secret ballot by the executive council begins today with a Japanese candidate, Koichiro Matsuuro, the favourite to replace Federico Mayor, the Spanish biochemist who has held the post for 12 years.Documents seen by the Guardian indicate that the international body has reformed little in the decade since its name became a byword for inefficiency, nepotism and corruption - practices that caused the United States and Britain to pull out as members, although Britain has since rejoined.As well as the memorandum to Mr Mayor from one of his deputies informing him of two French ministerial interventions, a damning independent audit commissioned and carried out by the Canadian government is heavily critical of almost every area of Unesco's operations.Cronyism seems all but endemic, with about 40% of the organisation's appointments and promotions failing to meet Unesco's own criteria for fair competition, the audit says.The report has been in the hands of Unesco's ambassadors and its secretariat for nearly a year, yet staff say they have seen no action taken on its critical conclusions.To judge from the report, Unesco has also learned little from the 1980s accusations of fund-wasting on a huge scale. The organisation is stuffed with bosses: it has promoted so many managers to senior posts and taken on so many consultants that, despite a two-yearly budget of $544m (£340m), it cannot afford the properly qualified staff it needs to run its programmes effectively.The audit report also found that Unesco failed to measure programmes to see what taxpayers around the world and recipients had got for the money spent. Neither did it systematically assess the impact of what its programmes. Most internal accounting and audit procedures were inadequate, and computers were so outdated that this year it is possible that no final accounting figures may be produced.Unesco will not confirm who the candidates are for this week's election but, sources say, the ballot will be decided by much political horse-trading.



That's a lot of copy and paste again. You need to rise up to the challenge and articulate your own analysis and evaluate in your own words. Besides as I said before corruption is unavoidable, there are positives to weigh in with the negatives. Moreover how many people are corrupt, all of them or a few people at the top?
splender13 m ago

That's a lot of copy and paste again. You need to rise up to the challenge …That's a lot of copy and paste again. You need to rise up to the challenge and articulate your own analysis and evaluate in your own words. Besides as I said before corruption is unavoidable, there are positives to weigh in with the negatives. Moreover how many people are corrupt, all of them or a few people at the top?


Oh do I 'need to rise up to the challenge'? how odd a demand. I'll leave the analysis of who is corrupt at the UN up to The Guardian, they've done much more work on it than you or I on the subject
The UN is about as useful as a chocolate teapot and don’t get me started on NATO – You can see why trump would want to either pull out all together (NATO) or force members to pay their fair share. You have the likes of Germany neglecting their own armed forces because they assume the US has their back. I mean even Greece – a country on the bones of its backside can manage the minimum 2.0% GDP where as the Germans can barely muster over 1% and its not because they cant, they wont.
Who cares really ?
Original Poster
splender4 h, 10 m ago

That's a lot of copy and paste again. You need to rise up to the challenge …That's a lot of copy and paste again. You need to rise up to the challenge and articulate your own analysis and evaluate in your own words. Besides as I said before corruption is unavoidable, there are positives to weigh in with the negatives. Moreover how many people are corrupt, all of them or a few people at the top?


Does the Guardian article from 18th October 1999 not satisfy you, splender?


davewave3 h, 57 m ago

..... I'll leave the analysis of who is corrupt at the UN up to The …..... I'll leave the analysis of who is corrupt at the UN up to The Guardian, they've done much more work on it than you or I on the subject

Saturn44 m ago

Does the Guardian article from 18th October 1999 not satisfy you, splender?



I thought the news was rather ancient , being 1999, makes his case against UNESCO for cronyism and corruption very weak in the absence of topical fresh allegations. Additionally the logic reasoning against UNESCO is fallible: say corruption is fault A, anti-Israel is fault B (if it could be a fault but let us assume it is a fault for logical analysis), fault A has nothing to do with fault B since they are independent organisational issues, the former is a recruitment issue and as such is normally fixable using human resource policies, the later is a geo-political issue which is not easily fixable, conflating A & B is not at all useful. But note UNESCO is not high ranking in the power game as an organisation in the UN structure. It is being used as an expedient tool for some other indirect agenda by the Republican Party.

I don't like this method, which is one expresses a negative statement, then justify this with a copy and paste with an absence of self-expression. This is so Level 2 academic quality. From level 3 to level 5 (university degree level) one really has to use more high order writing techniques and one has to articulate in one's own words so to justify one's own stance in an important topical world event.
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