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    Was this the right thing to do?

    So a train fare dodger decides to walk in with me through the ticket barriers without him paying. I knew what he did but I thought I'd leave it because it happens to people. But as he was walking off he turned back around to see if I was suspicious. That's when I decided to flick the switch and not be taken for a mug and called him over. I asked him if he walked in with me and he obviously denied it. I then held him strongly and took him back to the ticket barriers. After a bit of a standing wrestling and shouting match the customer service person told him to get back out and I carried on with my travels. Is it lawful to to do something like this? I mean he basically stole from me as I'm the one who paid for the fare not him.

    85 Comments

    1st assault is always wrong and illegal.
    2. how did he steal from you exactly?!
    3. why did it bother you that he dodged the fair? its between him and the train company.

    upto you really.

    I'm not sure how he stole from you. Anyway, I think you were a bit foolish to grab him the way you did. Maybe, if you were that concerned, you should have simply told a station official about the issue. I'm not condoning what the fare dodger did by any means, but you were fortunate that there wasn't any injury to yourself.

    Original Poster

    Predikuesi

    I'm not sure how he stole from you. Anyway, I think you were a bit … I'm not sure how he stole from you. Anyway, I think you were a bit foolish to grab him the way you did. Maybe, if you were that concerned, you should have simply told a station official about the issue. I'm not condoning what the fare dodger did by any means, but you were fortunate that there wasn't any injury to yourself.


    He used me as I used my ticket to pass the barrier.
    Edited by: "kay1992" 13th Feb

    He didn't steal from you, whatever happened you paid for your travel and you were able to travel as paid for. He tried to defraud the train company , not you personally. I'm more interested in where you live to be able to get two people through the barrier together. Where I am it would be a most uncomfortable squeeze, and I'm a size 10 before you cast aspersions

    Why should he get a free ride? Too many people turn a blind eye to things like this. Good for you for challenging him
    Edited by: "cpet23" 13th Feb

    kay1992

    He used me as I used my ticket to pass the barrier.



    he didn't steal from you though

    Original Poster

    aau1

    he didn't steal from you though



    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger!

    Not sure why you gave a damn, worst that could have happened was a member of staff saw it and you have to show your pass to prove it wasn't you sneaking in.

    The right thing to do would have been to let a member of staff know he snook in behind you and probably doesn't have a pass.

    Well done.
    A brave (possibly risky) move but I admire your princibles.
    To many people turn a blind eye to wrongdoing which is why world is getting a very sorry place.

    Even if he did steal from you, in the eyes of the law what you did was assault. I would also consider that you have no idea who you are grabbing - this guy seemed quite cooperative but this could have ended badly for you depending on the persons attitude.

    kay1992

    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips … ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger!


    Surely trolling? That comparison only works if he stole your ticket from you.
    You paid your fair for you to ride the train which you did.
    He didn't so hes a ticket dodger which is the train company's problem. Would have been justified for you to kick off about him rubbing up behind you so closely but that's it really.
    Next time, assuming this actually happened, just tell someone who's job it is to stop that happening don't assault the guy.
    Edited by: "Deaa" 13th Feb

    Original Poster

    sparky111091

    Even if he did steal from you, in the eyes of the law what you did was … Even if he did steal from you, in the eyes of the law what you did was assault. I would also consider that you have no idea who you are grabbing - this guy seemed quite cooperative but this could have ended badly for you depending on the persons attitude.



    ​Assault and restraint are two different things.

    Original Poster

    Deaa

    Surely trolling? That comparison only works if he stole your ticket from … Surely trolling? That comparison only works if he stole your ticket from you.You paid your fair for you to ride the train which you did.He didn't so hes a ticket dodger which is the train company's problem. Would have been justified for you to kick off about him rubbing up behind you so closely but that's it really. Next time, assuming this actually happened, just tell someone who's job it is to stop that happening don't assault the guy.



    ​Did he have permission to use my ticket?

    The fare dodger is a ****. Doesn't give you the right, or responsibility, to physically challenge him though. He didn't actually wrong you in any way, despite you claiming theft.

    I admire your unwillingness to let such **** pass, but 'restraining' a stranger, whom you know cares little for the rights-and-wrongs of our world could be very dangerous. It's really not worth it, IMO.

    kay1992

    ​It's my fare tho?



    ​so u paid double if he didn't go with u u would have had to pay half is thay correct.

    Original Poster

    MynameisM

    ​so u paid double if he didn't go with u u would have had to pay half is t … ​so u paid double if he didn't go with u u would have had to pay half is thay correct.



    I paid one fair for two people as he followed through behind me.​ But I don't like sharing.

    kay1992

    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips … ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger!



    Theft, the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it.

    The guy hasn't stolen anything from you, the only victim of a crime here is the train company. There are other dishonesty offences out there but things like obtaining services with dishonesty don't apply as you aren't the one providing those services the train company is.

    However you've committed a number of offences, by the stupidity of your actions.

    - Common assault by grabbing this person (potentially ABH level assault because you grabbed them strongly as you put it)
    - The common law offence of unlawful imprisonment if they feared you'd prevent them getting away in any way
    - Potentially a section 4a public order offence (maybe s5 depending on the details)

    Seriously, the way to deal with this would have been to say it to a member of staff or mention it to the train driver before you boarded the train if it really annoyed you that much.

    kay1992

    I paid one fair for two people as he followed through behind me.​ But I d … I paid one fair for two people as he followed through behind me.​ But I don't like sharing.



    ​ok lol but if he was a friend or family are u allowed to do that if it's allowed then u have been wronged if not then it's the train company wronged in my opinion. fair enough u did what u did I assume u assessed that the guy wasn't going to be a danger to u before u did it if not it was probably a silly thing to do like yesterday a security guard restrained a guy and he died what if this guy died when u restraind him.

    Original Poster

    Astec123

    Theft, the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with … Theft, the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive the other of it.The guy hasn't stolen anything from you, the only victim of a crime here is the train company. There are other dishonesty offences out there but things like obtaining services with dishonesty don't apply as you aren't the one providing those services the train company is. However you've committed a number of offences, by the stupidity of your actions. - Common assault by grabbing this person (potentially ABH level assault because you grabbed them strongly as you put it)- The common law offence of unlawful imprisonment if they feared you'd prevent them getting away in any way- Potentially a section 4a public order offence (maybe s5 depending on the details)Seriously, the way to deal with this would have been to say it to a member of staff or mention it to the train driver before you boarded the train if it really annoyed you that much.



    ​The only reason I did it is because it has happened to me numerous times before and it happens to people in general.

    If he approached you while spitting on the floor pulling his pants up, would you not feel threatened? That's exactly what he did.

    I'm the one who asked for the police to be called actually but the train worker said to let him go out. But thanks.

    kay1992

    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips … ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger!



    ​that's funny. but if u order a burger and chips and only paid for the chips and the burger wasn't paid for by u then the shop would have been wronged not u if they ran away with the burger.

    [/quote]He used me as I used my ticket to pass the barrier.[/quote]
    he didn't steal from you though[/quote]
    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger![/quote]

    No its nothing like that crazy analogy as you are not out of pocket (the train company is) and you got the journey you paid for and didnt lose anything or have anyhting stolen from you, the train company did

    Original Poster

    Sandy1012

    He used me as I used my ticket to pass the barrier.[/quote]
    he didn't steal from you though[/quote]
    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger![/quote]

    No its nothing like that crazy analogy as you are not out of pocket (the train company is) and you got the journey you paid for and didnt lose anything or have anyhting stolen from you, the train company did
    [/quote]

    ​Ok but he made me an accomplice of his without my permission. That's enough reason to be pi**ed off!

    Original Poster

    MynameisM

    ​ok lol but if he was a friend or family are u allowed to do that if it's … ​ok lol but if he was a friend or family are u allowed to do that if it's allowed then u have been wronged if not then it's the train company wronged in my opinion. fair enough u did what u did I assume u assessed that the guy wasn't going to be a danger to u before u did it if not it was probably a silly thing to do like yesterday a security guard restrained a guy and he died what if this guy died when u restraind him.



    ​It's only one person at a time with their own ticket. The barrier automatically closes after each person. He had just enough time to walk in with me before it closed. It's not allowed.

    My head was cool at the time and you are correct about having assessed the situation, it's just that I've got a big mouth especially towards criminals. You have to speak out sometimes people!

    kay1992

    ​The only reason I did it is because it has happened to me numerous times … ​The only reason I did it is because it has happened to me numerous times before and it happens to people in general. If he approached you while spitting on the floor pulling his pants up, would you not feel threatened? That's exactly what he did. I'm the one who asked for the police to be called actually but the train worker said to let him go out. But thanks.



    In this case if he had been arrested there's a very high possibility that you'd have ended up being dragged in at a later stage to explain your actions and the possibility of criminal offences being considered.

    It happens numerous times, so what, it's the job of the train company to deal with it, you paid your fare, you went through the barrier and got the service you paid for. There is no onus on you to deal with anything more.

    If he approached me in a threatening manner then he'd likely be arrested.

    You come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational in this thread. I can only imagine your attitude won't have done you any favours and it's very likely to get you severely injured as others have pointed out if you continue down that path. Take some of the advice others have pointed out, you make a big error of judgement as it stands. Now would be the right time to slip away and reflect rather than sitting there trying to justify your mistake as some sort of deed of good.

    aau1

    he didn't steal from you though



    The more that do not pay means that the ones that do have to pay more.
    Exactly the same as insurance fraud.

    Yes imo

    no......

    Original Poster

    Astec123

    In this case if he had been arrested there's a very high possibility that … In this case if he had been arrested there's a very high possibility that you'd have ended up being dragged in at a later stage to explain your actions and the possibility of criminal offences being considered.It happens numerous times, so what, it's the job of the train company to deal with it, you paid your fare, you went through the barrier and got the service you paid for. There is no onus on you to deal with anything more. If he approached me in a threatening manner then he'd likely be arrested. You come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational in this thread. I can only imagine your attitude won't have done you any favours and it's very likely to get you severely injured as others have pointed out if you continue down that path. Take some of the advice others have pointed out, you make a big error of judgement as it stands. Now would be the right time to slip away and reflect rather than sitting there trying to justify your mistake as some sort of deed of good.



    ​You seem annoyed that I've actually done something about it rather than cower away like some would.

    Are you condoning what the fare dodger did as you haven't really mentioned much about him. He's innocent in all this right?

    Can you blame me? I'm trying to explain my side here? I have to defend myself and I am backing up everything I say with reason. It's been quite a day if it hasn't caught your attention.

    He didn't steal from you
    Technically YOU assaulted HIM arguments aside history is littered with good people trying to do the "right thing" & getting spanked for it.

    Maybe he has a problem with those machines, Lord knows how many times I've screwed them up only they've screwed up on me.

    If they're not totally familiar with them could be a mistake or maybe they had their hands full & thought screw it.

    Whatever the reasons you should've pointed it out to a member of staff then walked away, physically handling anyone is asking for trouble either you get done for assault or the other person lays a smack down on you or worse pulls a knife, is it worth it then?

    Original Poster

    Rich44

    He didn't steal from youTechnically YOU assaulted HIM arguments aside … He didn't steal from youTechnically YOU assaulted HIM arguments aside history is littered with good people trying to do the "right thing" & getting spanked for it. Maybe he has a problem with those machines, Lord knows how many times I've screwed them up only they've screwed up on me. If they're not totally familiar with them could be a mistake or maybe they had their hands full & thought screw it. Whatever the reasons you should've pointed it out to a member of staff then walked away, physically handling anyone is asking for trouble either you get done for assault or the other person lays a smack down on you or worse pulls a knife, is it worth it then?



    ​Before anyone else uses the word assault can you give me a definition of the word itself?

    kay1992

    ​It's only one person at a time with their own ticket. The barrier a … ​It's only one person at a time with their own ticket. The barrier automatically closes after each person. He had just enough time to walk in with me before it closed. It's not allowed. My head was cool at the time and you are correct about having assessed the situation, it's just that I've got a big mouth especially towards criminals. You have to speak out sometimes people!


    For your own safety you should never attempt to restrain a member of the public worst case how did you know he didn't have a knife etc in his pocket
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/20/train-inspector-stabbing-court_n_1159715.html
    In future just report him to the correct authorities.

    kay1992

    ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips … ​How didn't he steal from me? That's like you ordering a Burger and chips and he takes your Burger!



    In your analogy you would have had your burger taken away from you. So were you unable to travel by train?

    kay1992

    ​Before anyone else uses the word assault can you give me a definition of … ​Before anyone else uses the word assault can you give me a definition of the word itself?


    We are only concerned for your safety and if you dont know the rules regarding restrain/assault etc then best to just report him to the correct authorities

    ​As someone who has been on the receiving end of something similar I'll tell you, you'd think there'd be a difference between a pvcu door being locked with key on a windowsill & false imprisonment BUT THERE ISN'T believe me!!

    Original Poster

    archer1204

    We are only concerned for your safety and if you dont know the rules … We are only concerned for your safety and if you dont know the rules regarding restrain/assault etc then best to just report him to the correct authorities



    Thank you, that's very kind of you.​

    Original Poster

    landros1

    Well done.A brave (possibly risky) move but I admire your princibles.To … Well done.A brave (possibly risky) move but I admire your princibles.To many people turn a blind eye to wrongdoing which is why world is getting a very sorry place.



    ​Thank you

    kay1992

    Thank you, that's very kind of you.​


    If it happened again what would you do next time

    assault - maybe not
    unlawful restraint - very possibly.

    Original Poster

    archer1204

    If it happened again what would you do next time



    ​I have no idea lol.. guess I'll report it to a member of staff but I know for a bleeding fact they will do nothing about it.
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