Groups

    What do you believe is the biggest burden on the NHS?

    With fears that it might simply collapse this winter in certain areas, what do you personally perceive to have been the biggest burden on it over the last couple of decades.

    Of course there's a myriad of factors but what's your personal view?

    63 Comments

    Government cuts.

    People needing/seeking NHS treatment.
    Edited by: "RossD89" 14th Oct 2016

    RossD89

    People needing/seeking NHS treatment.



    T R U T H

    Drunk people or rather alcoholism in general - vast amounts of A&E resources and ambulances tied up with people who drink too much. This could be avoided if people just had one or two less drinks and managed to get home on their own safely rather than being scooped up by a ambulance and taken to hospital to get treatment for all the other ailments they receive such as bumped heads and getting into fights because of the drink.
    Edited by: "TPGone" 14th Oct 2016

    Too many middlemen spending money on pointless things, including procurement of equipment from only approved suppliers, which leads to vastly inflated prices. Added to this people turning up to A&E with minor injuries not requiring emergency treatment, and the difficulty of obtaining a GP appointment. Alcohol also has a big impact on the number of injuries.

    Fat Cats, Drunks & Druggies.

    I don't think there is any one thing that puts a burden on the NHS. As far back as I can remember, the NHS has always suffered from a lack funding. It is always going to be a drain on national resources. No government, of any party, is going to solve the issue. Money needs to be poured into it, but it is a bottomless pit.
    It's likely that in the future (probably not in our lifetime) the NHS will be abandoned in favour of private health care systems.

    Fat people

    That its become a political football.

    The root cause in the area of governance and management is a lack of a set of unit metrics prescribed in law such as: £x committed spend per person that is independent of politics but based on health need. Then this set of unit metrics has tax funding ring fenced by law based on the needs of the patient. Its affordability could be further limited as a percentage of tax revenue collected. Then the affordability is adjusted with longer life span of patients as jobs are created to allow/enable older workers to work longer. (But productivity of care and treatment moves at a faster rate with new technology than the rate of increase in longevity of patients.)
    .
    Talking of which with £ having fallen 20% against the US dollar and less against the Euro, how come there is no CEO in Health Trusts screaming his/her head off to the press? or to the Health Minister?!

    An exorbitant amount of staff on high, high wages. Mismanagement.

    Bus posters, Tories and Nigel Farage.
    Anyone who voted for the Tories or whose name is Nigel should be put on a waiting list to join Holby City as a patient and get treatment that way.

    Overpaid incompetent management and political deals with suppliers which cost vastly more than they are worth
    And I am sure people going out getting drunk on fri/sat nights (when the NHS pays its staff double time) dosnt help

    Having worked in the sector there are 2 things the NHS and indeed most government bodies are burdened with.
    1, Staff - Now obviously they need staff, the problem with government staff is they don't look at it as a business and are mostly there for the pension, also it is very hard for then to loose staff, so you end up with people staying there for the pension as long as possible this means you have to send staff 6 months away for retirement on training courses costing £2000 a day, when it would be more usefull to send a younger member of staff. Also you have a large number of legacy staff getting year on year pay rises being paid large salaries for doing fairly menial jobs.
    2, The procurement process. For example as a supplier you have to jump through hoops to be put on the supplier list but once you are on its you can print your own money almost. as government bodies can only purchase via pre approved suppliers. So for Example, NHS buying a plaster you could walk into Tesco and buy for say £1 NHS will order for £5 plus maybe £10 Delivery because the person ordering is just doing as they are told and the staff have no idea of the real cost. (similar example is my misses works in a school nursery Toys need to be ordered from an approved supplier who may charge say £60 plus delivery for a cozy coupe whereas your could order from Amazon for £35 with free delivery)

    Edited by: "djt100" 14th Oct 2016

    I am not sure you can count treating sick people as a burden even if it is their lifestyle choices that gets them there.
    Health "tourism" i.e. non British citizens visiting the country just to use our NHS is costing many millions of pounds a year depending on whose figures you go by, the government estimate is around £2 billion per year which if true is ridiculous and while i wouldn't begrudge emergency treatment to someone here on holiday our generosity is very often abused and is something we should look at tightening up on.

    Agencies for staff, and "approved suppliers".

    Procurement (as previously stated) whether medical, pharmaceutical or administrative because it's mostly the politicians (MP's and Lords) who are "attached" to said companies who will gain financially from these organisations (and that includes backhanders and offshore wealth)

    Improper use of the NHS
    1 - time wasters, drunks, drug addicts should be charged for repeated "abuse" of the system (oh dear the "sympathisers will be back on this comment again but haven't yet realised most especially the twins are on my ignore)
    2 - Foreign nationals who haven't paid a penny towards this countries economy who use the NHS and are not billed for the service.
    3 - People going to A&E (again already mentioned) without it being an accident or emergency

    And of course government funding

    coys67

    I am not sure you can count treating sick people as a burden even if it … I am not sure you can count treating sick people as a burden even if it is their lifestyle choices that gets them there.Health "tourism" i.e. non British citizens visiting the country just to use our NHS is costing many millions of pounds a year depending on whose figures you go by, the government estimate is around £2 billion per year which if true is ridiculous and while i wouldn't begrudge emergency treatment to someone here on holiday our generosity is very often abused and is something we should look at tightening up on.



    Staff are meant to ask for ID from everyone visiting but the reality they don't. In theory of you are not a uk national then you would need to provide proof of insurance before being treated, but this NEVER happens.

    themorgatron

    Agencies for staff, and "approved suppliers".



    Plenty of money spent there, and to give an example where my wife works. One of the consultants needed a bookcase for his office, no fancy solid oak request just a simple bookcase costing no more than £100 from Ikea, but no it has to come from an approved supplier and costs £450!

    Just one small example of inefficiency, I know of one senior bod in the NHS who screwed up a project resulting in a additional spend of 8 million quid bill proper major screw up, I doubt any of you would be surprised that after an investigation and slashing of budgets by 8 million this person was ............. fired - nope, disciplined - nope, managed out - nope, you guessed they were promoted.

    Its easy to blame the politicians for all the NHS woes but they are not responsible for all of them.

    tryn2help

    Maybe this bloke? X)


    I thought you'd want to use this pic
    https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/ad221652017c2a9-licensed-to-lo.jpg

    Original Poster

    Very interesting views. Obviously the NHS could always use more funding, but that's generally speaking a cure rather than a fundamental problem in my view.

    Procurement, middle-management etc. would be lovely issues because they're easily solvable and they're also an easy target for blame especially if you're a tabloid newspaper.

    But from speaking to some people I'd consider well-informed on the subject, the two biggest issues they think are going to end up killing the NHS are;

    1. An ageing population

    2. Obesity and obesity-related illnesses.

    The first nobody mentioned yet it's a fundamental problem facing the NHS that might not have a cure. In fact it's a problem facing all of society and not one that has an easy fix.

    Obesity on the other hand is a massive crisis and a couple of people mentioned it. We as a society are putting an undue strain on the NHS (and our waistbands) through our own gluttony and laziness.

    Politicians will come and go and continue to underfund the NHS (simply because it's costs are increasing at a rapid rate) but it's facing a massive crisis because it's helping to keep people alive for longer.

    As a long term in and outpatient, a few immediate money drains spring to mind:

    - The allocation of inpatient beds. Too many patients either take up a bed they no longer need as they can't vacate it while waiting for an appropriate situation to be discharged into, or patients are stuck waiting weeks for the tests/procedures they need performing, and then waiting for the results, doing little in the meantime.

    - Medicine's (repeatedly) dispensed incorrectly and then wasted. While I see the logic of why they can't be taken back, the amount of waste in the first place is far too much.

    - Potentially a more personal experience, but it happened a lot in the hospital I was in. With staff cuts and too few nurses per shift, and the case of just some consultants/nurses simply being noticeably bad at their job and not knowing a patient's condition whatsoever before acting (non-emergency), mistakes were made that set my, and I would anticipate others', recovery back a substantial amount -> patients taking up extra beds and resources.
    (I would like to say that for the most part, I very much respect medical professionals, they are caring and do a tough job, and I'm not trying to get at them as a whole. What I've said here is with regards to my specific experience, but it did happen and has had a large effect.)

    I don't recall any of these being as bad as they are now with my previous hospital admissions.
    Edited by: "Katanaqui" 14th Oct 2016

    philphil61

    I thought you'd want to use this pic


    I removed it, Phil, as I was just trying to lighten the mood with a little joke - as you are doing now - but it's probably too serious for some folks to joke about.

    Personally, I'm grateful for the care I've had from the NHS - they were absolutely amazing with me (but food was truly disgusting - and why were they giving me high fat food in the heart ward oO - on reflection maybe trying to finish me off - I take it all back, Phil, I've no time for them X) only joking X) )

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Very interesting views. Obviously the NHS could always use more funding, … Very interesting views. Obviously the NHS could always use more funding, but that's generally speaking a cure rather than a fundamental problem in my view.Procurement, middle-management etc. would be lovely issues because they're easily solvable and they're also an easy target for blame especially if you're a tabloid newspaper. But from speaking to some people I'd consider well-informed on the subject, the two biggest issues they think are going to end up killing the NHS are;1. An ageing population2. Obesity and obesity-related illnesses.The first nobody mentioned yet it's a fundamental problem facing the NHS that might not have a cure. In fact it's a problem facing all of society and not one that has an easy fix.Obesity on the other hand is a massive crisis and a couple of people mentioned it. We as a society are putting an undue strain on the NHS (and our waistbands) through our own gluttony and laziness. Politicians will come and go and continue to underfund the NHS (simply because it's costs are increasing at a rapid rate) but it's facing a massive crisis because it's helping to keep people alive for longer.



    So do you believe old people are a "burden" in your words?

    Surely that is the whole purpose of the NHS to look after our citizens in their time of need no matter what their age, and while obesity is a self made problem there are massive efforts being made to educate people and i believe in time obesity will go the same way as smoking and become more and more socially unacceptable and become less of a problem.

    According to the doctor I was chatting to in charing cross when I was having my piecing infection sorted out, the biggest burden is government interference in terms of excessive paperwork, stupid rules and cuts which in the opinion of said doctor was all designed to make the service fall apart, so it can be sold off without public outcry. She expected there to be no nhs in 10 years time, it will all be private health insurance.

    I think 10 is optimistic with this government in power personally.

    Original Poster

    coys67

    So do you believe old people are a "burden" in your words?Surely that is … So do you believe old people are a "burden" in your words?Surely that is the whole purpose of the NHS to look after our citizens in their time of need no matter what their age, and while obesity is a self made problem there are massive efforts being made to educate people and i believe in time obesity will go the same way as smoking and become more and more socially unacceptable and become less of a problem.



    I didn't use the words 'old people' did I?

    An ageing population presents massive issues for all of society. If people live longer but pay less in the way of taxes (besides taxes based on consumption like VAT, Road Tax etc.) then there's a fundamental problem there.

    Obesity may go away in time but it's a growing problem at the moment and that doesn't appear to be changing. Better education might come but surely that's got to come from the parents first and if they're teaching their kids bad habits then it's only going to get worse.

    Original Poster

    Error440

    According to the doctor I was chatting to in charing cross when I was … According to the doctor I was chatting to in charing cross when I was having my piecing infection sorted out, the biggest burden is government interference in terms of excessive paperwork, stupid rules and cuts which in the opinion of said doctor was all designed to make the service fall apart, so it can be sold off without public outcry. She expected there to be no nhs in 10 years time, it will all be private health insurance.I think 10 is optimistic with this government in power personally.



    Problems like that appeal to people because they can be pointed at and solved. It's much harder to point at nan and grandad and say that they represent a much larger, unwieldy and potentially unsolvable problem.

    Medications and treatments do become more affordable over time, but then new (more expensive) ones are developed and all the while you have people receiving treatments without paying income tax at the same time.

    That's a real problem. You can eliminate waste or bureaucracy but you can't eliminate old people.

    But I agree with your doctor's conclusion.

    tryn2help

    I removed it, Phil, as I was just trying to lighten the mood with a … I removed it, Phil, as I was just trying to lighten the mood with a little joke - as you are doing now - but it's probably too serious for some folks to joke about. Personally, I'm grateful for the care I've had from the NHS - they were absolutely amazing with me (but food was truly disgusting - and why were they giving me high fat food in the heart ward oO - on reflection maybe trying to finish me off - I take it all back, Phil, I've no time for them X)only jokingX) )


    I've been in similar situation
    In 5 years of having to use the NHS I've only come across 1 bad nurse. I recently got mobile and took the opportunity by taking a large tin of quality street and passed them onto an ambulance crew parked outside Queens Medical Centre's A&E Nottingham to thank them for the care/service they provided me some months ago and to appreciate some of the sh** they have to put up with with some "patients" and also did the same for my GP's practice (even the receptionists are top fully deserving people

    I can't fault the service except for waiting times which have grown in recent years (not going to go off on one about the reasons why as don't want to upset the apple cart or the wrath of the terrible twins)

    the tories and massive management overheads to many chiefs not enough indians

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Problems like that appeal to people because they can be pointed at and … Problems like that appeal to people because they can be pointed at and solved. It's much harder to point at nan and grandad and say that they represent a much larger, unwieldy and potentially unsolvable problem.Medications and treatments do become more affordable over time, but then new (more expensive) ones are developed and all the while you have people receiving treatments without paying income tax at the same time.That's a real problem. You can eliminate waste or bureaucracy but you can't eliminate old people.But I agree with your doctor's conclusion.




    One of the things the doctor said was she used to be a GP and no one wants to be a GP anymore as she worked 7am until 11pm, that wasnt the hours of the practice that extra time was the paperwork, now clearly they are getting psid while doing it so thats waste too considering how much GPs get paid, she also said they were not allowed to do basic things like book another appointment for the patient they've just seen, they'd have to go through the reception like everyone else and be assigned an appointment for a random GP so they'd have to repeat all their symptoms and what treatments they've had over and over again to a different face and thats no good for anyone and again wastes time.

    I had to go to that hospital every 2 days for 2 weeks actually and always got seen by the same lady, that would never happen in a million years at my GPs

    philphil61

    I've been in similar situationIn 5 years of having to use the NHS I've … I've been in similar situationIn 5 years of having to use the NHS I've only come across 1 bad nurse. I recently got mobile and took the opportunity by taking a large tin of quality street and passed them onto an ambulance crew parked outside Queens Medical Centre's A&E Nottingham to thank them for the care/service they provided me some months ago and to appreciate some of the sh** they have to put up with with some "patients" and also did the same for my GP's practice (even the receptionists are top fully deserving peopleI can't fault the service except for waiting times which have grown in recent years (not going to go off on one about the reasons why as don't want to upset the apple cart or the wrath of the terrible twins)


    I'm on waiting lists (have been for months now) for two major ops.
    Never had to wait this long before.
    Constant supply of weird and wonderful drugs/painkillers till they find time and space for me.

    I flippin hate those painkillers and the side effects.
    Edited by: "tryn2help" 14th Oct 2016

    Obesity and an aging population

    I wonder which super rich people own the nhs hint hint

    the move away from essential life saving treatment to vanity treatments and treating self abusers(drugs ,dr8nk,ect)

    Cure one illness and get 5 in return

    tryn2help

    I'm on waiting lists (have been for months now) for two major ops. Never … I'm on waiting lists (have been for months now) for two major ops. Never had to wait this long before.Constant supply of weird and wonderful drugs/painkillers till they find time and space for me.I flippin hate those painkillers and the side effects.




    I should be on a waiting list for therapy/counciling or something, but no one seems to know whats going on, my GP has nothing and gave me the phone number for the mental health authority, they couldn't see any referrals on their records so now I'm waiting for a call back from the advisor I was assessed by. Its been 3 months now since I was told I was referred to a therapist who would contact me to find out what would be the best help for me.

    tryn2help

    I'm on waiting lists (have been for months now) for two major ops. Never … I'm on waiting lists (have been for months now) for two major ops. Never had to wait this long before.Constant supply of weird and wonderful drugs/painkillers till they find time and space for me.I flippin hate those painkillers and the side effects.



    Hoping you get fixed soon and can reduce the meds

    Error440

    I should be on a waiting list for therapy/counciling or something, but … I should be on a waiting list for therapy/counciling or something, but no one seems to know whats going on, my GP has nothing and gave me the phone number for the mental health authority, they couldn't see any referrals on their records so now I'm waiting for a call back from the advisor I was assessed by. Its been 3 months now since I was told I was referred to a therapist who would contact me to find out what would be the best help for me.


    I'd suggest taking matters into your own hands and doing a basic psychology course (incorportating CBT etc) either at a local college or online (if costs permit).

    If nothing else it helps you understand what they are doing and why they are doing it - this in turn, empowers you, helps restore confidence levels and generally helps on the road to recovery.

    Genuinely hope things improve for you, Error. God bless

    People who want to keep breathing but really shouldn't be helped to do so
    Post a comment
    Avatar
    @
      Text
      Top Discussions
      1. SNES Classic launches 29th September 2017 - Check for stock and pre-order i…4671403
      2. Toys R Us may soon be Toys No More - USA possibly filing for Bankruptcy2729
      3. WONGA REFUNDS DUE2111019
      4. miikeyblue and shabbird's (but mostly shabbird's) Tuesday night pub quiz!553770

      See more discussions