What Legal Rights do I have re: Delivery of Wrong Product?

19
Found 5th Dec 2017Edited by:"Firefly1"
I'll try to keep this to a summary but feel free to ask for more details.


I ordered a Samsung S7 with VR Headset from John Lewis, as per a HUKD thread on here. The product page stated Samsung S7, along with the correct specifications for an S7. The order confirmation stated Samsung S7.

When I picked up my order the following day, it was an S7 Edge (& VR headset). The order packing note inside the box stated an S7 Edge. The website was still selling (a now out of stock) S7 with no correction.

I phoned John Lewis, they admitted their error and they would sort it. However they needed to proceed with an investigation and it would take 48 hours. I chased 48 hours later and they said they were still busy due to Black Friday and they would get back to me within 24 hours but "We'll source the S7 from another store if we sell out of the S7, as this is our mistake Sir".

I phone 24 hours later as heard nothing....told to wait for as long as it takes. The product page was then removed from John Lewis site.

A couple of days after this, I receive an email stating they have completed their investigation and the stock code matched an S7 edge, and therefore I received the correct phone. I could return the phone for a full refund if I wish, but they will not exchange the phones as I received the correct phone.

One hour later, I received the John Lewis warranty for my S7 via email, valid for the next year or two.

I've escalated this a couple of times and they are not budging. I initially got offered £15 compensation but they have since withdrawn this and "any compensation would be discussed after I return the phone".

They have now asked me to drive 15 miles to a John Lewis Store to discuss with their team there "to see if there is anything they will do at the store". However this is not the store I picked the phone up (As I picked it up at Waitrose) and they will not give any advanced warning to the store. This seems completely random to me.

----

That's the story so far. I'm going to drive the 15 miles to have this conversation - but in summary:

- As far as I'm concerned, the contract has been created for an S7. This is not an obvious mis-price and I should not be expected to interpret John Lewis Stock Code Numbers
- They feel the Stock Code matches an S7 Edge and therefore they delivered the correct phone, but I can get a refund if I wish
- I have now missed all the Black Friday Deals (as I bought this on Black Friday) and so I am disadvantaged if I return this. I bought this in good faith and I feel the contract should be enforced.

- Are there any legal rights with regards to taking John Lewis to The Small Claims Court for this? I'll email the CEO office after my trip to John Lewis which will no doubt be a complete waste of my time. Then I would like to take this further on the principle that they have messed me around, especially after first agreeing that it was their mistake on the phone, twice!!
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Have you spoken to a manager?

Does seem absurd though did you manage to take a screen shot of the page before it was deleted from their site?

Hope you get it sorted, im not fond of John Lewis to be honest as they rarely ever try and fix your item if it breaks down just refund you so if you got something at a really good price and cant afford to replace it at full price you're basically stuffed.
Is the Edge not more expensive than the standard S7? If so then you’ve done alright out of the whole thing unless you really didn’t want the Edge variant.

As for legal rights, I doubt it. You bought a product, they sent you the wrong one, in your opinion, and have offered to refund you. You are back in the same position you started in. They have no obligation to you to offer the same deal they were offering on BF. You could ask them to match it as the current deal is not as good, but again it’s only if they want to.

I’m not sure what you hope to gain from emailing the CEO, who incidentally won’t give a flying rats arse about stock codes, as they’ve done everything they have to. They’ve offered to refund you and you’re back in the same position you are before the transaction started.

Get your money back and buy the phone elsewhere if you don’t want to deal with JL again. However, given their decent reputation for customer service you may well be surprised
Original Poster
adhkarzf9 m ago

Have you spoken to a manager? Does seem absurd though did you manage to …Have you spoken to a manager? Does seem absurd though did you manage to take a screen shot of the page before it was deleted from their site? Hope you get it sorted, im not fond of John Lewis to be honest as they rarely ever try and fix your item if it breaks down just refund you so if you got something at a really good price and cant afford to replace it at full price you're basically stuffed.


I spoke to a CS assistant on the telephone who insisted they could not help further, and I asked for it to be escalated. They eventually said a "Senior Manager" would phone back within 24 hours, that phone call never happened. Hence I then wrote an email of complaint which has resulted in the advice of going into a John Lewis store randomly.....

I have 3 screenshots of the site taken several days after my purchase before they took it down - from the URL all the way down to the bottom of the product specifications. It says Samung S7 throughout (Saved to a different computer but happy to upload at the weekend if anybody really wants to see....)

Cakeboy798 m ago

Is the Edge not more expensive than the standard S7? If so then you’ve d …Is the Edge not more expensive than the standard S7? If so then you’ve done alright out of the whole thing unless you really didn’t want the Edge variant. As for legal rights, I doubt it. You bought a product, they sent you the wrong one, in your opinion, and have offered to refund you. You are back in the same position you started in. They have no obligation to you to offer the same deal they were offering on BF. You could ask them to match it as the current deal is not as good, but again it’s only if they want to. I’m not sure what you hope to gain from emailing the CEO, who incidentally won’t give a flying rats arse about stock codes, as they’ve done everything they have to. They’ve offered to refund you and you’re back in the same position you are before the transaction started. Get your money back and buy the phone elsewhere if you don’t want to deal with JL again. However, given their decent reputation for customer service you may well be surprised



The S7 Edge is quite possibly just as expensive. However it is far more fragile when it comes to drops. This S7 is a gift for a family member as they have their birthday on Thursday. They do drop their phone often and therefore it is far more sensible to gift an S7 rather than S7 Edge as it is far less likely to shatter (I will provide a case too, of course!).

As the true monetary value of the 2 phones is very similar, I don't feel it's unreasonable to simply exchange the phones - they stock both phones anyway.

There are currently no S7 deals - as they all happened on Black Friday. Therefore I feel I am in a worse position now, since I did not buy from another providor because I bought the deal from John Lewis. Now other providors do not have any sales on, as Black Friday is now over. Therefore, in my opinion, I am not in an identical situtation by a simple refund.

I don't think it's my opinion that they have sent the wrong phone. All consumer purchases form a contract. If I can prove in a court that they did send the wrong phone, then they are in breach of contract and it is not unreasonable to ask them to enforce their side of the contract.

They have already swapped another HUKD members phone from an S7 Edge to an S7 .... I know this doesn't help any legal action, but equally I feel I'm being walked over
JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are clueless. I had a complaint and they where not bothered and their attitude stunk. In the end it got back to a different department run by JL themselves and I got a good part refund. I can't remember who I wrote to in the end for it to get escalated but will find out.
We will not be liable, in contract, tort (including, without limitation, negligence), pre-contract or other representations (other than fraudulent or negligent misrepresentations) or otherwise out of or in connection with the Conditions for:

any economic losses (including without limitation loss of revenues, profits, contracts, business or anticipated savings); or
any loss of goodwill or reputation; or
any special or indirect losses
suffered or incurred by that party arising out of or in connection with the provisions of any matter under the Conditions.

That paragraph above is taken from the JL T&Cs that you agreed to when shopping with them so I don’t think you’d get that far in court. Someone with more legal knowledge than me may well disagree though, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find they’ve covered themselves properly
Just tell them you have screenshots of the webpage and intend to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority and lodge a complaint via the RetailADR, also tell them you'll take them to a small claims court to recoup the extra costs you incur when replacing at a price more than a 'Black Friday' deal you could of had, you will also expect compensated for time wasted resolving this complaint, if they say no then ask for a deadlock letter as the ombudsman will only take a complaint when you have been deadlocked.

If they're unsure where they stand and think you have a slight chance of winning, then they'll settle it with you for an easy life, remember to poke their social media sites, that usually get's people moving when it's in the public spotlight.
I sympathise with you op. And for those who say you should take a refund - sod that, it's not so much the money it's also the inconvenience! If you bought and paid for a computer and they sent an abacus would they shrug it off? You read the description...their description and purchased on the strength of that.
They sent you the phone, so a contract had been formed. They have the product you purchased, let them send it to you.
what did your original order confirmation say?
Original Poster
caverncity17 m ago

JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are …JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are clueless. I had a complaint and they where not bothered and their attitude stunk. In the end it got back to a different department run by JL themselves and I got a good part refund. I can't remember who I wrote to in the end for it to get escalated but will find out.


S7 with VR Headset. Order Confirmation, Email acknowledging ready for collection and an email several days after collection stating my warranty all state an S7 phone. The only paperwork saying S7 Edge is the paperwork in the box, with the S7 Edge itself. John Lewis say an S7 Edge was provided which matches the "Stock Code" and therefore the right phone is provided. The stock code is just a string of numbers, though.

caverncity17 m ago

JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are …JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are clueless. I had a complaint and they where not bothered and their attitude stunk. In the end it got back to a different department run by JL themselves and I got a good part refund. I can't remember who I wrote to in the end for it to get escalated but will find out.


I appreciate you arguing the other side anyway, because it's exactly what they would do so it's good to know. On the other hand, no T&C overrides any law. But I agree that I don't know the law amazingly either.


caverncity17 m ago

JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are …JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are clueless. I had a complaint and they where not bothered and their attitude stunk. In the end it got back to a different department run by JL themselves and I got a good part refund. I can't remember who I wrote to in the end for it to get escalated but will find out.


Thanks, I appreciate it

The only other time I've had this shoddy Customer Services is Vodafone.

--

Again, thanks all for your views either way. They messed me around years ago so - if at all possible - this is where I won't back down on principle, if there is any chance of me winning a court case. It's not actually about the £50 or £100 or whatever, it's the principle.
Edited by: "Firefly1" 5th Dec 2017
As has been said, Capita are the online/telephone assistance for JL and they are useless.

You really need to be going into the store, be calm, take your evidence and ask the store if they can help you in a resolution that works for you all.
I must admit my recent dealing with John Lewis surprised me. I had to go via Resolver to get a incident dealt with properly. I bought a mattress topper 4 years ago and it started to fall apart at the seams. When I looked on the JL website the updated replacement comes with a 5 year warranty. My online order for the faulty goods didn't state what the warranty was and JL then told me it would be 2 years. I asked them why 2 years when the latest version is 5 years. I then got some idiot stating to me that 'I had entered into a contract and that I should have made sure I was happy with the blah blah blah'. The guy really got up my nose so I then went through Resolver. Within 5 days I was offered a full refund or a replacement
The contract is complete in all aspects but one, you do not have the phone they agreed to sell you as evidenced by the original order confirmation.
The big problem is whether or not a judge thinks this contract is worth enforcing or that you should simply be put back to the position you were before entering into the contract.
There is a term in law called something like "loss of bargain" which technically means you can go out and buy an S7 elsewhere then sue JL for the difference over their price.
The point at which this ends is if you withdraw from the original contract ie accept compensation or such so it is important if you plan to follow this route to stick with the insistence of JL performing the obligations under the original contract.
ItWasNotMe17 h, 56 m ago

Just tell them you have screenshots of the webpage and intend to complain …Just tell them you have screenshots of the webpage and intend to complain to the Advertising Standards Authority and lodge a complaint via the RetailADR, also tell them you'll take them to a small claims court to recoup the extra costs you incur when replacing at a price more than a 'Black Friday' deal you could of had, you will also expect compensated for time wasted resolving this complaint, if they say no then ask for a deadlock letter as the ombudsman will only take a complaint when you have been deadlocked.If they're unsure where they stand and think you have a slight chance of winning, then they'll settle it with you for an easy life, remember to poke their social media sites, that usually get's people moving when it's in the public spotlight.


That's rubbish. JL don't have to sell something if they made a mistake on the advertising. Obviously they've made a mistake, return the phone. That's it. They have no obligation to honor a mistake.
Original Poster
maddogb6th Dec

The contract is complete in all aspects but one, you do not have the phone …The contract is complete in all aspects but one, you do not have the phone they agreed to sell you as evidenced by the original order confirmation.The big problem is whether or not a judge thinks this contract is worth enforcing or that you should simply be put back to the position you were before entering into the contract.There is a term in law called something like "loss of bargain" which technically means you can go out and buy an S7 elsewhere then sue JL for the difference over their price.The point at which this ends is if you withdraw from the original contract ie accept compensation or such so it is important if you plan to follow this route to stick with the insistence of JL performing the obligations under the original contract.



windym6th Dec

As has been said, Capita are the online/telephone assistance for JL and …As has been said, Capita are the online/telephone assistance for JL and they are useless.You really need to be going into the store, be calm, take your evidence and ask the store if they can help you in a resolution that works for you all.



mrty5th Dec

I sympathise with you op. And for those who say you should take a refund - …I sympathise with you op. And for those who say you should take a refund - sod that, it's not so much the money it's also the inconvenience! If you bought and paid for a computer and they sent an abacus would they shrug it off? You read the description...their description and purchased on the strength of that. They sent you the phone, so a contract had been formed. They have the product you purchased, let them send it to you.



caverncity5th Dec

JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are …JL outsource their customer service to Capita who in my opinion are clueless. I had a complaint and they where not bothered and their attitude stunk. In the end it got back to a different department run by JL themselves and I got a good part refund. I can't remember who I wrote to in the end for it to get escalated but will find out.




Just to update everybody....

Went to the John Lewis store with the phone, screenshots of the website, order confirmation, delivery note and detailed listings of conversations thus far:

Spoke to the department manager whom agreed that I should receive the phone I ordered. He ended up having to talk to the same people that I spoke to on the phone whom didn't want to do it so they had a row about it in front of me on the phone Anyway he got his way after 15 minutes and agreed that they were a nuisance.


He kept the S7 Edge (I got emailed a Returns Label automatically), I kept the VR Headset and he arranged an S7 to my local Waitrose. The correct phone was waiting for me at Waitrose with a delivery note of the S7, with the higher order price confirmed of £499 as opposed to £439 etc.

I was kind of expecting them to screw up and refund me the S7 Edge and charge me the higher price of the S7 due to the RMA email and the delivery note stating the higher S7 price.... Nothing has changed on my bank statement after a week so seems to have been good. I really wasn't expecting them to help me in store at all because, frankly, it wasn't his problem - but very grateful they did

Thanks everybody!
Edited by: "Firefly1" 16th Dec 2017
Good mews, glad you got it sorted.
A result for common sense. Credit to that manager.
ianhookk6th Dec

That's rubbish. JL don't have to sell something if they made a mistake on …That's rubbish. JL don't have to sell something if they made a mistake on the advertising. Obviously they've made a mistake, return the phone. That's it. They have no obligation to honor a mistake.



You're wrong. It's not just a mistake on the advertising, a contract has been concluded for item A. If item B is provided then JL has not fulfilled their part of the bargain. As someone stated previously there are a number of ways that this could be resolved; putting the purchaser back to the situation they were in prior to entering the contract (refunding item A) or an alternative route is through the purchaser pursuing damages for the 'loss of bargain' on the part of JL's breach of contract. If Item A was priced £10 more expensive at Tesco during BF but now is priced at £50 more than the purchase price then it is plausible that the purchaser could aim to recover the £50 they are out of pocket by returning item B and purchasing item A. The fact that both item A and B are priced similarly doesn't really give JL any leeway on saying it's an obvious mistake in pricing.
Thanks for updating. The store was always the resolution as the staff at John Lewis are all Partners. They all have a stake in the company. The online telesales are Capita and have no inclination or similar feelings.
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