What's this and why's it leaking?

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Found 3rd May 2015
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Original Poster
http://s12.postimg.org/53shi6snh/IMAG1336.jpg
Edited by: "mk8" 3rd May 2015
Filling loop valve. Needs replacing if its leaking. Shouldn't be too expensive....
hi...according to my hubby who is a gas/heating engineer...its the filling loop for the hot water tank to fill pressure up in the boiler
shouldnt even be connected. only used to fill the system and both taps should be in the off position (90degree angle)
Original Poster
Jonwilkie

shouldnt even be connected. only used to fill the system and both taps … shouldnt even be connected. only used to fill the system and both taps should be in the off position (90degree angle)



Are they not off now? They're both as far clockwise as they'll turn.
Original Poster
MikeT

Filling loop valve. Needs replacing if its leaking. Shouldn't be too … Filling loop valve. Needs replacing if its leaking. Shouldn't be too expensive....



screwfix.com/p/r…905 this one?
Jonwilkie

shouldnt even be connected. only used to fill the system and both taps … shouldnt even be connected. only used to fill the system and both taps should be in the off position (90degree angle)



Should be connected to allow you to fill the system if water levels fall or you take off a radiator etc
Landlords often leave them connected cause tenants tend to loose the loop!

The valves should both be in the closed position when your not pressurizing the system, closed is 90 deg to the pipework.

No the one you pointed to at screwfix is incorrect, its much too cheap, the valves will leak on that soon too, you really do need someone who knows whats hes doing to change the valve as its got live water behind it, do it yourself and its going to be more trouble than its worth.
Edited by: "MikeT" 3rd May 2015
eslick

Should be connected to allow you to fill the system if water levels fall … Should be connected to allow you to fill the system if water levels fall or you take off a radiator etc



I think you will find your wrong. (Had my boiler serviced a few weeks ago). You have a FLEXIBLE filling hose. The rules state that this should not remain permanently connected as if for example if the unlikelyhood both valves fail it will damage your boiler and cause potentially hazardous situations. or cause it to trip out.

the hose can be connected to the filling valve but should not be connected direct to the boiler and should only be connected WHEN filling the boiler.

Also you should not be losing pressure so often to warrant it being connected. Learnt this new myself after having a set of plumbers come out to the house we havbe just bought and had just completed a revised skill course.
http://www.acquirehomeservices.co.uk/Public_Info.htm

bullet point 3...

EDIT: if thats not enough, why would you want to leave it conencted all of the time? except laziness, safety is paramount when dealing with gas
Edited by: "Jonwilkie" 3rd May 2015
Original Poster
It was like that when I bought the house new a few years back. The builder just told me to open the valves when the pressure falls below a certain point on the dial. Which part should be disconnected?
both taps should be off and it should be dis connected from the boiler side. leaving it connected to the filling valve is fine.

Notes on filling loop:
Filling loops
A filling loop is used on a pressurised central heating system. It transfers your fresh drinking water into the heating system. For this to happen, the drinking water supply has to be connected temporarily to the heating system.
Please bear in mind that your drinking water is also your neighbour’s drinking water too. And theirs is yours… When connected to the heating system it’s connected to a source of poisonous water which may contain rust, sealing compounds and corrosion inhibitors. So disconnection should be done as soon as the heating system has been filled. It’s not unusual to see the temporary hose left connected.
How do you know if your system is pressurised? The boiler will probably have a pressure gauge, or show a pressure in a digital display. There will not be a small tank in the loft or anywhere else (although there could be a large cold water tank).
The filling loop can be a tap on fixed copper pipework (where you “top up the water”); it could be a shiny flexible steel-braided hose with a valve at either end; it could be a key that you fit into the bottom of the boiler and turn to let water in; or some other connecting device.
The point is that on one side of the filling loop is your fresh drinking water and on the other are you central heating pipes possibly full of poisonous corrosion inhibitors. And if the hose, key or other connector is in place and / or connected, then you have got your fresh drinking water connected to pipes with poison in them. In this condition you are hoping the valves don’t leak… !!
FILLING LOOP SAFETY NOTES:
· Always disconnect the hose, key or other connector after filling / pressurising your system.
· BUT… check that the filling loop is installed properly because if not and you disconnect you could cause a lot of water damage. In this case get an engineer in to fix it before disconnecting.
· If the disconnected filling loop drips, then get it fixed. A leak is the very reason you don’t want the loop connected.

hope it helps
Original Poster
So this isn't something I can just disconnect myself then?
both taps should be off and it should be dis connected from the boiler side. leaving it connected to the filling valve is fine.

Notes on filling loop:
Filling loops
A filling loop is used on a pressurised central heating system. It transfers your fresh drinking water into the heating system. For this to happen, the drinking water supply has to be connected temporarily to the heating system.
Please bear in mind that your drinking water is also your neighbour’s drinking water too. And theirs is yours… When connected to the heating system it’s connected to a source of poisonous water which may contain rust, sealing compounds and corrosion inhibitors. So disconnection should be done as soon as the heating system has been filled. It’s not unusual to see the temporary hose left connected.
How do you know if your system is pressurised? The boiler will probably have a pressure gauge, or show a pressure in a digital display. There will not be a small tank in the loft or anywhere else (although there could be a large cold water tank).
The filling loop can be a tap on fixed copper pipework (where you “top up the water”); it could be a shiny flexible steel-braided hose with a valve at either end; it could be a key that you fit into the bottom of the boiler and turn to let water in; or some other connecting device.
The point is that on one side of the filling loop is your fresh drinking water and on the other are you central heating pipes possibly full of poisonous corrosion inhibitors. And if the hose, key or other connector is in place and / or connected, then you have got your fresh drinking water connected to pipes with poison in them. In this condition you are hoping the valves don’t leak… !!
FILLING LOOP SAFETY NOTES:
· Always disconnect the hose, key or other connector after filling / pressurising your system.
· BUT… check that the filling loop is installed properly because if not and you disconnect you could cause a lot of water damage. In this case get an engineer in to fix it before disconnecting.
· If the disconnected filling loop drips, then get it fixed. A leak is the very reason you don’t want the loop connected.

hope it helps
mk8

So this isn't something I can just disconnect myself then?



YEs you can both taps are off, fetch a bowl and unscrew from just under the boiler. place bowl near to catch any water.

IF it continues to leak in a constant trickle from either end, then thats the limit of how much I can help you as that would suggest a problem with one of the valves and you would need someone with experience of water such as a plumber or know a really good handyman.

If its just a trickle of water and then stops then hopefully its just remnant water that has been sat in the filling loop for awhile and one of the filling loop seals have failed in the case you just need to buy a new filling loop.

Ive learnt all of this this week as im currently battling my own boiler issue and im learning desperately to avoid the hundreds for a plumber but mines pressure so think a plumber is inevitable for me.
Edited by: "Jonwilkie" 3rd May 2015
Original Poster
So if I unscrew the yellow bit and disconnect the hose, the red part which is the source of the leak will still leak?

http://s10.postimg.org/t320aa38p/IMAG1336.jpg
Jonwilkie

I think you will find your wrong. (Had my boiler serviced a few weeks … I think you will find your wrong. (Had my boiler serviced a few weeks ago). You have a FLEXIBLE filling hose. The rules state that this should not remain permanently connected as if for example if the unlikelyhood both valves fail it will damage your boiler and cause potentially hazardous situations. or cause it to trip out.the hose can be connected to the filling valve but should not be connected direct to the boiler and should only be connected WHEN filling the boiler.Also you should not be losing pressure so often to warrant it being connected. Learnt this new myself after having a set of plumbers come out to the house we havbe just bought and had just completed a revised skill course.



well I am worried now, our is connected and has been for 12 years, serviced every year by the manufacturer and had the filling loop replaced last year by the manufacturer. Checked the instructions and it says that it could be disconnected and if so connect to refill. When it was installed the installer told us how to top up the system and never mentioned disconnecting. Wonder if rules have changed or if different boliers have different filling loops.
eslick

well I am worried now, our is connected and has been for 12 years, … well I am worried now, our is connected and has been for 12 years, serviced every year by the manufacturer and had the filling loop replaced last year by the manufacturer. Checked the instructions and it says that it could be disconnected and if so connect to refill. When it was installed the installer told us how to top up the system and never mentioned disconnecting. Wonder if rules have changed or if different boliers have different filling loops.


As you've had it serviced every year by the manufacturer and its been working fine for 12 years then I would leave it well alone - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're really concerned then mention it to the guy on the next service and see what he says.
Rreckon the rules have changed as we have just had "Hetas"in to check report on our installation March 2015 (started last May 2014 by a private registered company) The loop should be disconnected after filling system.Hetas told us not the company fitting it...
Delbert Grady

As you've had it serviced every year by the manufacturer and its been … As you've had it serviced every year by the manufacturer and its been working fine for 12 years then I would leave it well alone - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you're really concerned then mention it to the guy on the next service and see what he says.



lancsman

Rreckon the rules have changed as we have just had "Hetas"in to check … Rreckon the rules have changed as we have just had "Hetas"in to check report on our installation March 2015 (started last May 2014 by a private registered company) The loop should be disconnected after filling system.Hetas told us not the company fitting it...




my worried comment was me being a bit sarcastic :), there will be millions of homes out there with hoses connected and rules change all of the time. So the Op should check their user manual and maybe have someone qualified to fix it fix it and see what they say. Ours has the cap covers hanging, Ops doesnt seem to have it and disconnecting may make things worse as there are no caps to stop the water.
Edited by: "eslick" 3rd May 2015
Filling loop valve abt £5-7quid in B&Q.....i have lived in 4houses with a filling loop pressurised combi boiler and every single one had both ends connected one to water and one to the boiler and no problems were apparent in any of them!! Although it should ALWAYS have the black plastic valves turned off and only used if your pressure drops on your boiler and it cuts out..Only problem is you cant do ANY repairs etc yourself as you need to be a certificated Gas Engineer to carry out any Gas boiler work...Its also Illegal to do so and can have very serious ramifications if you do...An unregistered plumber who worked on a gas boiler that later caused an explosion and death of someone was charged and found guilty of manslaughter!!! Not to go over the top but just letting you know that you should get qualified engineer to do any repairs etc to your boiler
kebo_75

Filling loop valve abt £5-7quid in B&Q.....i have lived in 4houses with a … Filling loop valve abt £5-7quid in B&Q.....i have lived in 4houses with a filling loop pressurised combi boiler and every single one had both ends connected one to water and one to the boiler and no problems were apparent in any of them!! Although it should ALWAYS have the black plastic valves turned off and only used if your pressure drops on your boiler and it cuts out..Only problem is you cant do ANY repairs etc yourself as you need to be a certificated Gas Engineer to carry out any Gas boiler work...Its also Illegal to do so and can have very serious ramifications if you do...An unregistered plumber who worked on a gas boiler that later caused an explosion and death of someone was charged and found guilty of manslaughter!!! Not to go over the top but just letting you know that you should get qualified engineer to do any repairs etc to your boiler


This is not a gas repair or need of a qualified gas engineer to do this repair. Any DIYer that is competent can carry out this repair.
I would just find a plumber to fix it, its simply just drain the system and fit the new valve then refill followed by inserting any inhibitor that has been lost and finally bleed the required rads.
^^ what he said

It's a simple fix for a keen d.i.y'er, a plumber should be able to do it with his eyes closed (well, not literally) .

Kebo_75 is misinforming you, you can repair loads of parts on your boiler yourself

As for the filling loop, it is supposed to be disconnected but most people don't. It's supposed to be disconnected to prevent the accidental filling of the boiler when it is in use, that's all.
eslick

my worried comment was me being a bit sarcastic :), there will be … my worried comment was me being a bit sarcastic :), there will be millions of homes out there with hoses connected and rules change all of the time. So the Op should check their user manual and maybe have someone qualified to fix it fix it and see what they say. Ours has the cap covers hanging, Ops doesnt seem to have it and disconnecting may make things worse as there are no caps to stop the water.



always one that has to resort to sarcastic or "think theyre clever" comments. Are you that lazy to simply screw and unscrew something you use rarely? or do you not care about peoples including your own welfare? put simply in the extremely rare case both your valves fail your pressure will increase exponentally, or water steel contaminated could flow back into drinking water. The disadvantages of disconnecting are zero and its all about that extra bit of safety.


Rather than simply say ok fair enough i didnt know this you have to add another wrong 2p worth or say ooo millions of others have it yadda yadda. face facts I was right and you was wrong. Your caps are designed to be screwed on after filling to lock in water if your valve fails and the filling loop removed.
op has drowned

rip in peace
Original Poster
Not drowned yet. I've just put a bowl below it for now, it doesn't leak that badly. Still no closer to sorting it but a little wiser thanks to you all.
mk8

Not drowned yet. I've just put a bowl below it for now, it doesn't leak … Not drowned yet. I've just put a bowl below it for now, it doesn't leak that badly. Still no closer to sorting it but a little wiser thanks to you all.



Where is the water coming from? Use a tissue, don't just look at the drip as they can be misleading. Is it coming from the actual black part of the lever,or the threads where it connects to the flexi hose ?
Jonwilkie

always one that has to resort to sarcastic or "think theyre clever" … always one that has to resort to sarcastic or "think theyre clever" comments. Are you that lazy to simply screw and unscrew something you use rarely? or do you not care about peoples including your own welfare? put simply in the extremely rare case both your valves fail your pressure will increase exponentally, or water steel contaminated could flow back into drinking water. The disadvantages of disconnecting are zero and its all about that extra bit of safety.Rather than simply say ok fair enough i didnt know this you have to add another wrong 2p worth or say ooo millions of others have it yadda yadda. face facts I was right and you was wrong. Your caps are designed to be screwed on after filling to lock in water if your valve fails and the filling loop removed.



Well maybe I shouldn't have said I was worried but if you read my comments you will see that I said it had been checked for 12 years and the instructions say it should be left that ways so let's both face facts and say we were both right, you with up to date info me with 12 years of checks and instructions.
And reality is there will be millions of these like this and if it was so seriously wrong something would have been done about it. But then again I am not the expert so will agree that you are an expert and I was wrong.
Edited by: "eslick" 4th May 2015
Original Poster
kjcoolcat

Where is the water coming from? Use a tissue, don't just look at the … Where is the water coming from? Use a tissue, don't just look at the drip as they can be misleading. Is it coming from the actual black part of the lever,or the threads where it connects to the flexi hose ?



Really looks like the black lever it comes from. The only way I can replicate it is to turn the levers on as it doesn't leak all the time with them closed.
mk8

Really looks like the black lever it comes from. The only way I can … Really looks like the black lever it comes from. The only way I can replicate it is to turn the levers on as it doesn't leak all the time with them closed.



Ah ok. Yeah, the levers are known for failing on isolating valves - admittedly the screw types would be a pain on a filling loop. Thought we may have missed something and it may had been the thread on the valve itself..

If it doesn't leak when closed, then I'd leave it alone.. Don't worry about the scaremongery. My filling loop pours water out when refilling, and I can't even take the filling key out if I wanted to..
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