Where do I stand with my Landlord???

64 replies
Found 24th May 2010
If anyone can provide info in terms of where I stand with the law this would be great...

I've been living in a privately rented flat for 2 and a half years. When we moved in an inventory was done, which included a fully working tumble drier in the kitchen. This tumble drier has now recently broke, and the landlord has decided that they do not wish to replace it.

I have been argueing that it is in the inventory, and we are paying our rent based on the condition and appliances in it when we moved in, but the landlord has said that the tumble drier is not a necessary item, the previous tennant left it behind (first we heard), so they are not liable to replace it.

I have also asked for a small reduction on rent to reflect the lack of tumble drier, to which they also refused.

We have been perfect tennants for the last 2 and a half years, not a missed or late payment, and only ever had to chase the landlord up once (to repair the kitchen ceiling when it got flooded and half collapsed on us).

If you could point me in the direction of actual law literature which can back up your advice that would be great.

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64 Comments

You will have to look at your lease to begin with. Easiest place to start.

Original Poster

what do you think the lease will say?

LOL. The inventory is taken so that they can deduct from your deposit if you break any of said items. You can't expect to pay less rent because there's one less appliance there. Who knows, law may be in your favour on the matter but I would never dare ask for my rent to be reduced because a non-essential appliance is no longer provided. I'd look at a tumble dryer as a perk more than anything.

Original Poster

so if it was a furnished flat, and they decided to take away the TV that would be ok because it is a non essential appliance? I have to disagree with that. If thats the law then it stinks

Try your local freecycle group for a new tumble dryer.

Original Poster

fern37;8680348

Try your local freecycle group for a new tumble dryer.



I may do that, but its the principle of it, I'd like to know exactly where I stand in terms of them replacing an item which has developed a fault after almost 3 years, which was originally on the inventory.

I bought an electric oven and tumble dryer for the first place i rented..

When it came to moving to a new house, i didn't need them anymore.. Was more hassle than it was worth selling them, so because the landlord was spot on during the time i stayed there.. I offered to leave them in the property..

Said i couldn't - because he'd of been liable to replace the items if they ever broke for another tennant...

I think you may have a case to get it replaced.

You will have to check for a covenant to repair said item.

(By the way the law governing all of this is the Landlord and Tenant (Covenant) Act 1995)

cookiemonster83;8680329

LOL. The inventory is taken so that they can deduct from your deposit if … LOL. The inventory is taken so that they can deduct from your deposit if you break any of said items. You can't expect to pay less rent because there's one less appliance there. Who knows, law may be in your favour on the matter but I would never dare ask for my rent to be reduced because a non-essential appliance is no longer provided. I'd look at a tumble dryer as a perk more than anything.



totally disagree.......they are selling a "package". you dont pay for a furnish flat/house to have things break and not be replaced. The agreement was they are here and working.

move out ....... the way the economy is they should be grateful to have you and replace the item in order to keep you happy , they will lose a lot more if you move out and they have to find someone else and pay for advertising fee's, solicitor fee's etc - if you did it through an estate agent let them do it for you

Banned

he will probably say you broke it and it is your place to fix it

Original Poster

gdp-it;8680371

totally disagree.......they are selling a "package". you dont pay for a … totally disagree.......they are selling a "package". you dont pay for a furnish flat/house to have things break and not be replaced. The agreement was they are here and working. move out ....... the way the economy is they should be grateful to have you and replace the item in order to keep you happy , they will lose a lot more if you move out and they have to find someone else and pay for advertising fee's, solicitor fee's etc - if you did it through an estate agent let them do it for you



I've told them I may be forced to on principal. I'd really like to see a piece of text (which is relevant law in this country) which states they must replace items listen on the inventory that have broken due to wear and tear.

carmichaelj;8680398

I've told them I may be forced to on principal. I'd really like to see a … I've told them I may be forced to on principal. I'd really like to see a piece of text (which is relevant law in this country) which states they must replace items listen on the inventory that have broken due to wear and tear.



You need a covenant for the landlord to repair in your lease. It's pretty simple really, and it should all be contained within the lease agreement.

Banned

fern37;8680348

Try your local freecycle group for a new tumble dryer.



I wouldn't get rid of the broken dryer if I was you as the landlord can come after you for it.


Unless it specifically says in the lease that the landlord will not be responsable for repairing or replacing items which are damaged through normal wear and tear then the lanlord should be responsible for repairing it within a resonable time frame. But it will depend on the exact wording of the lease

If the flat was rented in the lease as unfurnished then the landlord does have to replace it, however if it is in the inventory and is signed by both the Tenant and Landlord, I do believe they could be responsible

I do hope the OP gets the resolution that they want to the situation, I just don't personally think a tumble dryer is something to get annoyed about. If my cooker or fridge freezer went, then sure- I'd expect the landlord to replace them unless it was my fault they broke. A tumble dryer though, which I could cope without, I wouldn't complain about if my landlord didn't want to get another one. It's all down to your agreement at the end of the day and I do get where you're coming from.

Original Poster

Its an unfurnished flat, but its on the inventory and signed by both of us. I'll need to look at the lease when I get home from work to check the wording

Banned

I only studied Scottish Contract Law which would make the Landlord responsible see scotland.shelter.org.uk/get…ies which states

'Any fixtures, fittings or appliances provided by the landlord (such as carpets, light fittings, white goods and household equipment) must be in a reasonable state of repair and in good working order.

Remember, any agreement you have with your landlord over repairs can only add to your landlord's responsibilities, not take them away.'

So I am not sure if it applies in England but there is a good chance it does

An electrical appliance would be based on the tenancy agreement you have.

Upon moving in did he provide you with an inventory? If he didn't or you didn't make one for him to sign then there's not a lot you can do.

Original Poster

cookiemonster83;8680455

I do hope the OP gets the resolution that they want to the situation, I … I do hope the OP gets the resolution that they want to the situation, I just don't personally think a tumble dryer is something to get annoyed about. If my cooker or fridge freezer went, then sure- I'd expect the landlord to replace them unless it was my fault they broke. A tumble dryer though, which I could cope without, I wouldn't complain about if my landlord didn't want to get another one. It's all down to your agreement at the end of the day and I do get where you're coming from.



Its something which we use though and comes in handy. The way I'm seeing it is I'm paying my rent for the flat and the contents and their condition as listed in the inventory. since the tumble drier is no longer part of the 'deal' I now think the flat and the sum of its parts are now worth less, so the drier should either be replaced, or a small reduction on rent to reflect this fact

Original Poster

Paddy Charlie;8680469

I only studied Scottish Contract Law which would make the Landlord … I only studied Scottish Contract Law which would make the Landlord responsible see http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/getadvice/advice_topics/renting_rights/about_your_tenancy_rights/overview_of_rights_and_responsibilities which states 'Any fixtures, fittings or appliances provided by the landlord (such as carpets, light fittings, white goods and household equipment) must be in a reasonable state of repair and in good working order.Remember, any agreement you have with your landlord over repairs can only add to your landlord's responsibilities, not take them away.'So I am not sure if it applies in England but there is a good chance it does



I'm located in Scotland

Banned

I've done a quick look for the stance in England on this and it seems they may only need to be responsible for the structure along with water, gas, electric but not for appliances within the property unless specified in the lease. I may be wrong though as just did a quick search and not had any experience with the law in England

carmichaelj;8680486

Its something which we use though and comes in handy. The way I'm seeing … Its something which we use though and comes in handy. The way I'm seeing it is I'm paying my rent for the flat and the contents and their condition as listed in the inventory. since the tumble drier is no longer part of the 'deal' I now think the flat and the sum of its parts are now worth less, so the drier should either be replaced, or a small reduction on rent to reflect this fact



A small reduction per month = peanuts. Not even worth getting in to an argument with your landlord unless it's for it to be repaired / replaced.

Banned

carmichaelj;8680493

I'm located in Scotland



Then he should have to fix it for you. I'll see if I can find something legal you can go to him with but quite busy in work at the moment so might be later on tonight that I can let you know

Original Poster

Mikey1610;8680511

A small reduction per month = peanuts. Not even worth getting in to an … A small reduction per month = peanuts. Not even worth getting in to an argument with your landlord unless it's for it to be repaired / replaced.



I would want it in principle, I dont care if its peanuts. If I'm not able to use a drier as quoted in the inventory I'd want that reflected in what I'm paying the landlord

Original Poster

Paddy Charlie;8680517

Then he should have to fix it for you. I'll see if I can find something … Then he should have to fix it for you. I'll see if I can find something legal you can go to him with but quite busy in work at the moment so might be later on tonight that I can let you know



It would be fantastic if you could find some concrete legal jargon to back me up

Also since the tumble drier was left there for your use, has it been electrical tested for safety in the time you have been there in the last 2 years?

If not that would be considerable leverage...........

carmichaelj;8680525

I would want it in principle, I dont care if its peanuts. If I'm not able … I would want it in principle, I dont care if its peanuts. If I'm not able to use a drier as quoted in the inventory I'd want that reflected in what I'm paying the landlord



If he did give you that reduction, what's to stop him putting up your rent later? He may do it to annoy you then and get you out!

Original Poster

fern37;8680541

If he did give you that reduction, what's to stop him putting up your … If he did give you that reduction, what's to stop him putting up your rent later? He may do it to annoy you then and get you out!



He would have to provide that in writing, with 3 months notice. If that were the case then I'd prob move out anyway. Thats a different issue entirely so I'd only cross that bridge when I came to it.

Original Poster

Alfonse;8680535

Also since the tumble drier was left there for your use, has it been … Also since the tumble drier was left there for your use, has it been electrical tested for safety in the time you have been there in the last 2 years?If not that would be considerable leverage...........



It has not been tested at all

fern37;8680541

If he did give you that reduction, what's to stop him putting up your … If he did give you that reduction, what's to stop him putting up your rent later? He may do it to annoy you then and get you out!



+1, always best to remain on the best possible terms with your landlord imo.

Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a complete ceiling repair because of a flood.
I think you need to consider how much rent you are paying compares with similar properties. If you think you are getting a bad deal it may be time to move anyway. If you are getting a good deal then maybe it is time to discuss, not demand a replacement tumble drier.
Good tennants often welcome a good landlord and vice versa. If the agreement is happy overall why sabotage it.

what about any gas and electrical certification for the property?

WoolyM;8680616

Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a … Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a complete ceiling repair because of a flood. I think you need to consider how much rent you are paying compares with similar properties. If you think you are getting a bad deal it may be time to move anyway. If you are getting a good deal then maybe it is time to discuss, not demand a replacement tumble drier. Good tennants often welcome a good landlord and vice versa. If the agreement is happy overall why sabotage it.



+ 1. I have to agree with this as i used to rent. Stay on his good side and you have a harmonious relationship. **** him off and you never know if he will spread it round the other landlords that you are trouble.

Isn't there a landlord's association now? Could you check with them? Is he a member of it?

carmichaelj;8680560

It has not been tested at all



The electrical appliances should be checked once a year and a certificate issued same with the gas this should be checked once a year and a gas safety certificate issued not 100% on the appliances but the gas certificate is a legal requirement

Original Poster

WoolyM;8680616

Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a … Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a complete ceiling repair because of a flood. I think you need to consider how much rent you are paying compares with similar properties. If you think you are getting a bad deal it may be time to move anyway. If you are getting a good deal then maybe it is time to discuss, not demand a replacement tumble drier. Good tennants often welcome a good landlord and vice versa. If the agreement is happy overall why sabotage it.



Well it wasnt a complete ceiling repair. The actually just covered the existing damaged ceiling with new ceiling panels. So the broken bits are still above it, and my kitchen ceiling is now about 1.5cm lower.

carmichaelj;8680466

Its an unfurnished flat, but its on the inventory and signed by both of … Its an unfurnished flat, but its on the inventory and signed by both of us. I'll need to look at the lease when I get home from work to check the wording



An inventory is normally done to stop people taking items when they leave, and if they do, and it's on the inventory and you have put down a deposit, then say goodbye to the deposit (or how much the item cost etc).

An Inventory is not for you, landlords could put a fork on an inventory.

carmichaelj;8680733

Well it wasnt a complete ceiling repair. The actually just covered the … Well it wasnt a complete ceiling repair. The actually just covered the existing damaged ceiling with new ceiling panels. So the broken bits are still above it, and my kitchen ceiling is now about 1.5cm lower.



And this is a problem because?

Original Poster

WoolyM;8680616

Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a … Excellent paying tennants or not, its not every landlord that has to do a complete ceiling repair because of a flood. I think you need to consider how much rent you are paying compares with similar properties. If you think you are getting a bad deal it may be time to move anyway. If you are getting a good deal then maybe it is time to discuss, not demand a replacement tumble drier. Good tennants often welcome a good landlord and vice versa. If the agreement is happy overall why sabotage it.



and I didnt demand. I discussed it (via my letting agent). They didnt return my/their calls for 3 weeks. And they eventually came back saying they are not replacing it.

Original Poster

Wotwot123;8680743

And this is a problem because?



Its not a problem, but I wouldnt say its a complete ceiling repair. I was expecting the old ceiling to come down and a new ceiling put up. I was told it was a big job.

In the end the work was done by 2 guys, and it was done in about two hours. It looks and feels cheap. In my opinion it was a very cheap choice, so it wasnt a full ceiling repair / replace
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