Will brexit improve working conditions?

79
Found 6th Sep 2017
Company bosses are saying it will be hard to fill vacancies after brexit because "English people dont want to do the jobs"

But is it that or is it that the employers are taking the pee? Since signing on I've seen 37 hour a week jobs advertised as part time, ive seen jobs as low as 4 hours a week demanding full flexibility, almost every part time job says must be flexible to work weekends and last week i found a vacancy for a warehouse person\cleaner, they wanted someone to pack a warehouse heavy lifting involved and clean everything too.

So will a lack of immigrants force them to consider work life balance, stop being so greedy and employ more people instead of wanting 1 or 2 on call 24\7 and paying someone a living wage instead of a poverty one?

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It's not a case of people wouldn't do the job, it's a case of employers want someone they can run ragged, under pay, treat poorly, fire freely and work the exact hours they want. So when an employer says no one wants the job, what they mean to say is no one will work the job, they mean no one will work the job in those conditions.

People conveniently ignore the fact that the minimum wage worked for by immigrants is topped up by tax credits , housing benefits etc etc in many cases. An Eastern European guy I worked with was getting minimum wage as a cleaner for 30 odd hours a week , but as he had 2 kids and a non working wife was pulling £1200 a month in tax credit and housing benefit , taking his £7.50 an hour to £16 an hour almost.
Factor in the cost of schooling , health care etc ..it's hardly "cheap labour" .. Except for employers milking the situation.
Then the cry goes up that the yoof of today are too lazy to do these jobs .. Unless this yoof has kids and renting they WILL be on minimum wage with no benefit top up , and will be working in the freezing rain picking carrots for £7.50 an hour .

The EU's negotiators are panicking.

An end to Freedom of Movement, the UK's refusal to pay their ridiculous blackmail demands, UK Stock Marlets at record levels, controlled inflation, low interests rate, eased pressure on our housing market, a less attractive destination for impoverished EU workers, a more competitive UK manufacturing and export industry, an end to free healthcare for EU nationals, and low or no tariff deals between the UK and the US, Japan and lots of lother large economies across the world due to soon be announced.

...and breathe.

Barnier resorting to threats shows the true spirit of what the EU is, I'll say no more
Edited by: "Dilithium" 6th Sep 2017

As long as there is freedom of movement people will travel from Eastern Europe and work for minimum wage or less, doing whatever unsocial hours because they are earning 3-4 times the minimum wage back home.
Unscrupulous employers will take advantage of this situation, if they want people to work for them they will have to pay what the market dictates, supply and demand, simple.
Edited by: "shadey12" 6th Sep 2017
79 Comments

This country depends on cheap immigrant labour.
It may be a cliche to say the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it is mostly true.

If the time comes when there is no more cheap (legal) foreign labour, then companies will be forced to pay more or will go bust / get swallowed up by competitors. May even end up with a monopoly.

As long as there is freedom of movement people will travel from Eastern Europe and work for minimum wage or less, doing whatever unsocial hours because they are earning 3-4 times the minimum wage back home.
Unscrupulous employers will take advantage of this situation, if they want people to work for them they will have to pay what the market dictates, supply and demand, simple.
Edited by: "shadey12" 6th Sep 2017

Anyone would think we never knew what a cabbage was until Lazlo worked the fields.

as shadey says, supply and demand. Pay the wages and the people will come.

coathanger8 m ago

Anyone would think we never knew what a cabbage was until Lazlo worked the …Anyone would think we never knew what a cabbage was until Lazlo worked the fields.as shadey says, supply and demand. Pay the wages and the people will come.


Do you think this will force some companies to go out of business as they may not be able to afford to pay the sort of money that would convince some to stop claiming benefits?

I have friends in some farms around. They told me except the owner and some administration staff there is no British nationalities on the field and I don't blame them. It is a very hard work. Permanent back and joint pains for minimum wage...no thanks.
The thing is the people on the field have no choice. Most of them have mortgages and loans need to be repaid. Its true they are sending most of their money abroad but they are for bills and such. Sad story!

Milev2 m ago

I have friends in some farms around. They told me except the owner and …I have friends in some farms around. They told me except the owner and some administration staff there is no British nationalities on the field and I don't blame them. It is a very hard work. Permanent back and joint pains for minimum wage...no thanks. The thing is the people on the field have no choice. Most of them have mortgages and loans need to be repaid. Its true they are sending most of their money abroad but they are for bills and such. Sad story!


This is true.
I too have witnessed this first hand when going out to 'pick my own' and got talking to some of the Eastern European fruit pickers.
I think some might not even be on minimum wage and get paid cash in hand.

Destard12 m ago

Do you think this will force some companies to go out of business as they …Do you think this will force some companies to go out of business as they may not be able to afford to pay the sort of money that would convince some to stop claiming benefits?


Do you wish to continue with the current system, where earnings are merely sent abroad and cash in hand is rife?

the market will find its own level of what it takes to attract workers.

coathanger11 m ago

Do you wish to continue with the current system, where earnings are merely …Do you wish to continue with the current system, where earnings are merely sent abroad and cash in hand is rife?the market will find its own level of what it takes to attract workers.

This has been one of my big gripes with the people who before brexit compared our pensioners in Spain to the Eastern Europeans here, the big difference is the pensioners spend money in Spain, the EU citizens send money out. What incentive do employers have to pay a decent wage or train someone from the UK?
If landlords have an abundance of people willing to 'rough' it for maximum rent, where is the incentive to compete for tenants?

Milev25 m ago

I have friends in some farms around. They told me except the owner and …I have friends in some farms around. They told me except the owner and some administration staff there is no British nationalities on the field and I don't blame them. It is a very hard work. Permanent back and joint pains for minimum wage...no thanks. The thing is the people on the field have no choice. Most of them have mortgages and loans need to be repaid. Its true they are sending most of their money abroad but they are for bills and such. Sad story!


But most of these will not be paying taxes like most UK workforce and the money they earn is being spent abroad so doesn't help our economy in anyway shape or form.

Yes we have the benefit claimers who refuse to do a hard days work but their current excuse is - there's no jobs because the Eastern Europeans have taken them all.

I'm not against controlled immigration and never have been but whilst we ship in cheap labour (who are generally underpaid) we can't force our benefit claimers to give back some of what they've scrounged.

But if you read the "policy" the Tories do state that "industries" can still get their cheap labour but they will have to prove without doubt reasons for doing so.

I'd love the UK to have a policy like The Philippines whereby if a filipino can do the job then they must employ a filipino. They are looking after their own people first. Yes we still need nurses and doctors, from overseas, because we don't train enough and why aren't enough interested in becoming a nurse or doctor? Ask Jeremy Hunt (darn I wouldn't want to earn a holiday for using his other name).

Plus it's far cheaper in countries like The Philippines to train nursing staff than it is in the UK as with doctors in Africa/Asia

Rant starting in 3.....2......1

But what really gets me is seeing adverts from the likes of police forces requesting applicants from diverse backgrounds...If people from diverse backgrounds wanted to become police they would of applied anyway. Having a publicity campaign and selection based on diversity IMHO goes against the Equality Act 2010. People should be recruited based on their ability not the race/culture.

Rant over
Edited by: "philphil61" 6th Sep 2017

Destard32 m ago

This is true.I too have witnessed this first hand when going out to 'pick …This is true.I too have witnessed this first hand when going out to 'pick my own' and got talking to some of the Eastern European fruit pickers.I think some might not even be on minimum wage and get paid cash in hand.


Google 'gangmaster convictions'
eg,
wisbechstandard.co.uk/new…383
Edited by: "shadey12" 6th Sep 2017

philphil6114 m ago

..... I'd love the UK to have a policy like The Philippines whereby if a …..... I'd love the UK to have a policy like The Philippines whereby if a filipino can do the job then they must employ a filipino. They are looking after their own people first. Yes we still need nurses and doctors, from overseas, because we don't train enough and why aren't enough interested in becoming a nurse or doctor? Ask Jeremy Hunt (darn I wouldn't want to earn a holiday for using his other name).Plus it's far cheaper in countries like The Philippines to train nursing staff than it is in the UK as with doctors in Africa/AsiaRant starting in 3.....2......1But what really gets me is seeing adverts from the likes of police forces requesting applicants from diverse backgrounds...If people from diverse backgrounds wanted to become police they would of applied anyway. Having a publicity campaign and selection based on diversity IMHO goes against the Equality Act 2010. People should be recruited based on their ability not the race/culture.Rant over


Lots of mentions of The Philippines, and filipinos, Phil'. Tell us more about your time there. and how you contribute(d) to their economy.

Saturn10 m ago

Lots of mentions of The Philippines, and filipinos, Phil'. Tell us more …Lots of mentions of The Philippines, and filipinos, Phil'. Tell us more about your time there. and how you contribute(d) to their economy.



He helped himself to some of the white powder

Have these companies forgotten that there are British people here as well, apart from English people?
These companies are greedy a££h*** who illegally employ East Europeans as full-time but on paper only pay them part-time. This exploits them and also causes a hindrance for the locals.

I wonder how these companies ever survived before millions of East Europeans flooded in! Greed, I tell you, it's all greed.

Is this topic supposed to be ironic OP?

It's not a case of people wouldn't do the job, it's a case of employers want someone they can run ragged, under pay, treat poorly, fire freely and work the exact hours they want. So when an employer says no one wants the job, what they mean to say is no one will work the job, they mean no one will work the job in those conditions.

philphil611 h, 9 m ago

But what really gets me is seeing adverts from the likes of police forces …But what really gets me is seeing adverts from the likes of police forces requesting applicants from diverse backgrounds...If people from diverse backgrounds wanted to become police they would of applied anyway. Having a publicity campaign and selection based on diversity IMHO goes against the Equality Act 2010. People should be recruited based on their ability not the race/culture.Rant over


But does that actually happen? I haven't checked myself, but that sounds illegal to me.
I recall many years ago seeing wording stating something like "applications from <insert an underrepresented race/gender/orientation> are particularly welcomed", but I don't think I've ever seen a straight forward recruitment campaign for a specific background.(Not counting roles working with vulnerable women and suchlike).

SJHan5 m ago

Is this topic supposed to be ironic OP?


Attack the subject matter please.

So why are the farm owners paying them cash in hand? Surely that's illegal and they should be prosecuted.

Destard34 m ago

But does that actually happen? I haven't checked myself, but that sounds …But does that actually happen? I haven't checked myself, but that sounds illegal to me.I recall many years ago seeing wording stating something like "applications from <insert an underrepresented race/gender/orientation> are particularly welcomed", but I don't think I've ever seen a straight forward recruitment campaign for a specific background.(Not counting roles working with vulnerable women and suchlike).



bbc.co.uk/new…620 scroll down to bottom the "show more updates" until you hit 11.39 Officers needed from diverse backgrounds

or as per below

Officers needed from diverse backgrounds
Maryam Qaiser

BBC Local Live

Nottinghamshire Police is hoping their latest recruitment drive will attract officers from diverse backgrounds in an effort to represent wider communities.

The force hopes to take on an extra 200 new police constables by the end of April.

Deputy chief constable Rachel Barber said there was a constant challenge to improve diversity in the workforce.

She said those from black ethnic minority groups would have a "wealth of experience and understanding" of how it felt to come from a different community within the UK, but added applications were open to everybody

philphil616 m ago

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leicestershire-41159620 scroll …http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-leicestershire-41159620 scroll down to bottom the "show more updates" until you hit 11.39 Officers needed from diverse backgroundsor as per belowOfficers needed from diverse backgrounds[Image] Maryam QaiserBBC Local LiveNottinghamshire Police is hoping their latest recruitment drive will attract officers from diverse backgrounds in an effort to represent wider communities.The force hopes to take on an extra 200 new police constables by the end of April.Deputy chief constable Rachel Barber said there was a constant challenge to improve diversity in the workforce.She said those from black ethnic minority groups would have a "wealth of experience and understanding" of how it felt to come from a different community within the UK, but added applications were open to everybody


OK I read that, but it doesn't look like a targeted recruitment campaign; more of an awareness campaign promoting the police as an employer to people who would not normally consider such a career. They even stated that applications are open to everybody.

To me, 'positive discrimination' sounds illegal, hence why I am querying whether this is real or just a myth.
Edited by: "Bestard" 6th Sep 2017

Destard4 m ago

OK I read that, but it doesn't look like a targeted recruitment campaign; …OK I read that, but it doesn't look like a targeted recruitment campaign; more of an awareness campaign promoting the police as an employer to people who would not normally consider such a career. They even stated that applications are open to everybody.To me, 'positive discrimination' sounds illegal, hence why I am querying whether this is real or just a myth.


It shouldn't be necessary

What if it read

Nottinghamshire Police is hoping their latest recruitment drive will attract officers from white backgrounds in an effort to represent wider communities.

The force hopes to take on an extra 200 new police constables by the end of April.

Deputy chief constable Rachel Barber said there was a constant challenge to improve diversity in the workforce.

She said those from white groups would have a "wealth of experience and understanding" of how it felt to come from a different community within the UK, but added applications were open to everybody

Many would be offended - it should never be used in a recruitment process IMHO

The EU's negotiators are panicking.

An end to Freedom of Movement, the UK's refusal to pay their ridiculous blackmail demands, UK Stock Marlets at record levels, controlled inflation, low interests rate, eased pressure on our housing market, a less attractive destination for impoverished EU workers, a more competitive UK manufacturing and export industry, an end to free healthcare for EU nationals, and low or no tariff deals between the UK and the US, Japan and lots of lother large economies across the world due to soon be announced.

...and breathe.

Barnier resorting to threats shows the true spirit of what the EU is, I'll say no more
Edited by: "Dilithium" 6th Sep 2017

coathanger9 m ago

..... I'll say no more


Promise?



31911971-B8Zib.jpg

Destard3 h, 19 m ago

This country depends on cheap immigrant labour.It may be a cliche to say …This country depends on cheap immigrant labour.It may be a cliche to say the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it is mostly true.If the time comes when there is no more cheap (legal) foreign labour, then companies will be forced to pay more or will go bust / get swallowed up by competitors. May even end up with a monopoly.


That is because we give people choice, get rid of the current benefit system and replace it with a US approach, you claim for so long then you're on your own. We don't force people to work we just keep spending hence the mountain of debt were currently trying to pay off. We don't need unskilled migrants because they bring their own problems, how many of the 440,000 children of EU citizens living in this country and the children of doctors and nurses?

The poor in this country are competing with unskilled labour for work, migrants drive down wages and increase the gap economic gap between workers. We did it in the 1950's then again in the 1960's, wages were driven down, workers had less power and it is happening now and will continue to do so.

coathanger14 m ago

The EU's negotiators are panicking.An end to Freedom of Movement, the UK's …The EU's negotiators are panicking.An end to Freedom of Movement, the UK's refusal to pay their ridiculous blackmail demands, UK Stock Marlets at record levels, controlled inflation, low interests rate, eased pressure on our housing market, a less attractive destination for impoverished EU workers, a more competitive UK manufacturing and export industry, an end to free healthcare for EU nationals, and low or no tariff deals between the UK and the US, Japan and lots of lother large economies across the world due to soon be announced. ...and breathe.Barnier resorting to threats shows the true spirit of what the EU is, I'll say no more


Threats are all the political has left, has been since the 1980's in fairness. The EU is a nasty and corrupt organisation that requires its net contributors like the UK to pay for and subsidise the Eastern European slum nations. Think many Brits are living in Poland and Romania on state handouts?

...forgot to mention all the former Remainers apologising, admitting they got it wrong.

On a lighter note, some of the Eastern European countries are having a tiff with the EU,
bbc.co.uk/new…638

The obvious solution is to round up all the problematic whinging brexiters and stick them in the farms instead. Sorted

Hit and run thread by OP.
Nice

DT897 m ago

Hit and run thread by OP.Nice



Maybe she is busy because one of the greedy employers took the pee and offered her a job.

People who couldn't find a job will now hopefully have a better chance as employers can't employee the cheapest Eastern Europeans as they have been tempted to do.
People who elected not to work and contribute to society will probably still elect not to work though.

Why would brexit improve working conditions? The job search websites are full of jobs so I find it hard to believe that many people that want a job can't find a job. It might mean doing a job you don't like though.

Destard12 h, 18 m ago

the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it …the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it is mostly true.If the time comes when there is no more cheap (legal) foreign labour, then companies will be forced to pay more or will go bust / get swallowed up by competitors. May even end up with a monopoly.



Destard12 h, 18 m ago

the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it …the local anglo saxons don't want to do those jobs but in my experience it is mostly true.If the time comes when there is no more cheap (legal) foreign labour, then companies will be forced to pay more or will go bust / get swallowed up by competitors. May even end up with a monopoly.


The op is a classic example having not bothered to work in over 8 years courtesy of the taxpayer. Mind you, she seems to be on here 24/7 moaning about her lot, so hasn't got time to do a real job

Original Poster

coathanger12 h, 0 m ago

Anyone would think we never knew what a cabbage was until Lazlo worked the …Anyone would think we never knew what a cabbage was until Lazlo worked the fields.as shadey says, supply and demand. Pay the wages and the people will come.


My mother picked fruit in the fields, in her day it was light work for a few quid, buses turned up at set points and mums and their kids went off to spend a day doing it for extra cash. Now the farmers expect people to do it for long hours and poor pay and more then that they expect them to live onsite in caravans provided by the farmer who docks the rental from the wages.. no longer a job just exploitative.

We have similar here, there is a hand car wash here, its been here for years now it has a manky caravan next to it and i see two of the car wash workers are living in it, it looks extremely basic inside and the pair of them look like dossers tbh

People conveniently ignore the fact that the minimum wage worked for by immigrants is topped up by tax credits , housing benefits etc etc in many cases. An Eastern European guy I worked with was getting minimum wage as a cleaner for 30 odd hours a week , but as he had 2 kids and a non working wife was pulling £1200 a month in tax credit and housing benefit , taking his £7.50 an hour to £16 an hour almost.
Factor in the cost of schooling , health care etc ..it's hardly "cheap labour" .. Except for employers milking the situation.
Then the cry goes up that the yoof of today are too lazy to do these jobs .. Unless this yoof has kids and renting they WILL be on minimum wage with no benefit top up , and will be working in the freezing rain picking carrots for £7.50 an hour .

Original Poster

Destard11 h, 58 m ago

Do you think this will force some companies to go out of business as they …Do you think this will force some companies to go out of business as they may not be able to afford to pay the sort of money that would convince some to stop claiming benefits?


We don't stop claiming benefits, if you be on minimum wage you can still get housing benefit for example, minimum wage isn't enough to pay rent in London yet hardly anywhere offers the London living wage.

If a company can not pay their worker enough to live on they are not a viable business anyway and why are they so keen to employ so few people why do they insist on demanding 1 staff member who must be able to work upto 70 hours a week instead of employing 2 or 3 people, doesn't it make sense to employ more anyway, what if that one overworked person gets sick or quits.

Original Poster

philphil6111 h, 34 m ago

But most of these will not be paying taxes like most UK workforce and the …But most of these will not be paying taxes like most UK workforce and the money they earn is being spent abroad so doesn't help our economy in anyway shape or form.Yes we have the benefit claimers who refuse to do a hard days work but their current excuse is - there's no jobs because the Eastern Europeans have taken them all.I'm not against controlled immigration and never have been but whilst we ship in cheap labour (who are generally underpaid) we can't force our benefit claimers to give back some of what they've scrounged.But if you read the "policy" the Tories do state that "industries" can still get their cheap labour but they will have to prove without doubt reasons for doing so.I'd love the UK to have a policy like The Philippines whereby if a filipino can do the job then they must employ a filipino. They are looking after their own people first. Yes we still need nurses and doctors, from overseas, because we don't train enough and why aren't enough interested in becoming a nurse or doctor? Ask Jeremy Hunt (darn I wouldn't want to earn a holiday for using his other name).Plus it's far cheaper in countries like The Philippines to train nursing staff than it is in the UK as with doctors in Africa/AsiaRant starting in 3.....2......1But what really gets me is seeing adverts from the likes of police forces requesting applicants from diverse backgrounds...If people from diverse backgrounds wanted to become police they would of applied anyway. Having a publicity campaign and selection based on diversity IMHO goes against the Equality Act 2010. People should be recruited based on their ability not the race/culture.Rant over


There's more people wanting to be nurses then their are places to train them thanks to the tories and those we do train want to leave, i was speaking to three medical students last year in charing cross hospital all of them planned to do their time here and then leave for Australia as they saw no future here for the NHS

Original Poster

Destard10 h, 28 m ago

But does that actually happen? I haven't checked myself, but that sounds …But does that actually happen? I haven't checked myself, but that sounds illegal to me.I recall many years ago seeing wording stating something like "applications from <insert an underrepresented race/gender/orientation> are particularly welcomed", but I don't think I've ever seen a straight forward recruitment campaign for a specific background.(Not counting roles working with vulnerable women and suchlike).


I don't like ones that want a photo, i think thats nosy they are judging on appearance if they want a photo at the start of the application process

Original Poster

DT897 h, 54 m ago

Hit and run thread by OP.Nice


Nope i got asked to play animal crossing, we was playing on the island until bed time

Segata-Sanshiro14 m ago

There's more people wanting to be nurses then their are places to train …There's more people wanting to be nurses then their are places to train them thanks to the tories and those we do train want to leave, i was speaking to three medical students last year in charing cross hospital all of them planned to do their time here and then leave for Australia as they saw no future here for the NHS


The qualifications needed to enter nursing has driven numbers down . If you require A levels and a degree to have a nursing career , the same qualifications will earn you much more in other industries , without needing to work 13 hour shifts and nights/weekends and being at the mercy of various governments implementing pay freezes for years on end .
Do all EU/non EU nurses coming to the uk have degree level educations? Or is it just UK nationals that need to achieve this ?
Edited by: "plodging" 7th Sep 2017
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