Working full time for a company self employed?

38
Found 29th Mar
I've got a job at an estate agents which would be full time. They want me to be self employed and file my own tax assessments. Is this legal under Law? What is the reason behind it?
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Tell them to jog on, companies should have a moral and legal obligation to employ staff on full time employment.
38 Comments
Reasons behind it are no work for them to do just pay you in terms of taxes, no paid holidays for you, less benefits and easier to get rid of you. Plenty of news about this sort of thing just have a google about the gig economy
Original Poster
eslick5 m ago

Reasons behind it are no work for them to do just pay you in terms of …Reasons behind it are no work for them to do just pay you in terms of taxes, no paid holidays for you, less benefits and easier to get rid of you. Plenty of news about this sort of thing just have a google about the gig economy


Isn't the gig economy to do with Uber drivers, deliveroo etc
coventgamer1 m ago

Isn't the gig economy to do with Uber drivers, deliveroo etc


It’s about anyone who works for a company that is self employed, gig economy is just the in word.
It’s tottally legal. It makes your labour cheaper for them. As they don’t have to pay you holiday or sick pay.

Bear in mind you will have to pay your own tax and national insurance you may also need an accountant to sort it out for you.
Edited by: "Wadda" 29th Mar
as already commented, it is legal. it saves them on benefits but also on tax as they would have to pay national insurance for you if they employed you.

it also makes it easier for them to get rid of you as you are offering your services to them rather than being an employee with all the protection that employment laws give you.
In other words, short-term contracts or freelance work, as opposed to permanent jobs. No sick pay, no pensions, no holiday pay, DIY tax/NI, less benefits/perks, kinda been like exploited for paying you for peanuts + kiss goodbye to your full employment rights. Basically, the company wants to limit their liability as a employer. Might as well put you on zero contract hours.

Who's the estate agents?
If you work continuously and uniquely for one company you are not self employed.

Of little use when the next person to come along will be grateful for the job, however crap the employer is.
Regardless of how your work is badged, you may still in fact be an employee - it depends on your specific working arrangements. Use this employment status checker to find out: gov.uk/gui…tax

Typically, non-employee status is preferable for the employer, as the worker then has fewer rights and attracts less of a tax liability for the employer. Benefits for the worker are few or none.
Tell them to jog on, companies should have a moral and legal obligation to employ staff on full time employment.
Don't forget there are other issues to consider if you become self employed , eg if you want to apply for a mortgage or some other forms of lending most banks will want to see the last three years accounts. Which in effect could mean other plans being put on hold .
Edited by: "tinkerbellian" 30th Mar
Are you sure you're not a presenter on BBC?
Ryanair have been doing this to their pilots for years. It is one of the more disgraceful ways that employers treat their staff in the modern world.
Original Poster
They've offered me the job at £16000 self employed 8.45am to 6pm is this reasonable? If I'm a self employed person can I name my own terms eg hours pay and notice
coventgamer1 h, 2 m ago

They've offered me the job at £16000 self employed 8.45am to 6pm is this …They've offered me the job at £16000 self employed 8.45am to 6pm is this reasonable? If I'm a self employed person can I name my own terms eg hours pay and notice


Leave it. The pay works out to be about minimum wage and they are squirming our of providing any other so called perks.

You would get no sick pay or holiday pay, they wouldn’t need to top up any pension and other employment rules wouldn’t apply.

you can get paid more with better benefits by going elsewhere
coventgamer1 h, 8 m ago

They've offered me the job at £16000 self employed 8.45am to 6pm is this …They've offered me the job at £16000 self employed 8.45am to 6pm is this reasonable? If I'm a self employed person can I name my own terms eg hours pay and notice


are you currently employed? they are simply using the self employed status for their benefit but you will be treated like any other permanent employee.

is it a clerical job and not sales where you would get commission on top of your basic salary?
Original Poster
mutley127 m ago

are you currently employed? they are simply using the self employed …are you currently employed? they are simply using the self employed status for their benefit but you will be treated like any other permanent employee.is it a clerical job and not sales where you would get commission on top of your basic salary?


No commission on top is a finance / admin role
You would need an accountant and that would cost £250-400 per year which you would have to pay
coventgamer1 h, 38 m ago

No commission on top is a finance / admin role


doesn't sound like a great offer so i would only accept if i were desperate and could not find another job, then i would be busy trying to apply for another job while doing this one as it is not a long term prospect.
Original Poster
allowed2 h, 2 m ago

You would need an accountant and that would cost £250-400 per year which …You would need an accountant and that would cost £250-400 per year which you would have to pay


I'm an accountant can do it myself
I'd tell them to shove it mate and make it clear to them why. They're paying around minimum wage all the whilst not offering any rights or benefits you would get as an employee such as pension contributions, sick pay, holiday pay, any employee benefits that you would usually get with other employers etc.

Not only that, they can choose not to contract with you whenever they like without giving any reason, so there's no job security. Best leave it imo.
I worked as self-employed for a question and answer text service that operates here in the UK but is owned by Australians.

When I was hired I had no obligation to do any specific hours or amount of work etc. Nothing about it in what I signed.
Those hired some time after me had signed a contract to work specific hours instead so fair enough.

Routinely, if I was inactive for a month or more my account would get suspended.
I never signed anything to say I needed to do a few questions a month at least. I always managed to get them to reactivate it but I was warned again that they would suspend it if I was inactive. Not like they paid me if I didn't work anyway so couldn't understand why I had to be active to keep my account open. They also had a minimum amount earned to reach in order for them to process the payment.

Anyway what I was getting at is that even if they hire you as a freelancer, they will expect stuff from you as if you were an employee.
I wouldn't work for a company as an employee disguised as a freelancer again.
If you're desperate for money then do it but look to find something better as soon as possible.

It's a lot of hassle doing the tax returns and you have no rights at all and you are still expected to work as someone with employee status.
Edited by: "hearts22" 30th Mar
coventgamer4 h, 0 m ago

I'm an accountant can do it myself


If you're an accountant I think you should have a better grasp of the employed v self employed rules as it's a fairly common client question in this day and age and one they would expect you to know.
Edited by: "ibblackberry1" 30th Mar
coventgamer8 h, 40 m ago

If I'm a self employed person can I name my own terms eg hours pay and …If I'm a self employed person can I name my own terms eg hours pay and notice


You can, you can do this and an employee or as a self employed individual, whether or not your employer or client will say yes is an entirely different matter.
Original Poster
The director of this estate agent chain has now offered me ££18K and that he would only pay this as would have to train me. What a crook!
Counter with a lower amount, say £17k and ask to be employed.

Assuming, that is, you want this job.
coventgamer31 m ago

The director of this estate agent chain has now offered me ££18K and that h …The director of this estate agent chain has now offered me ££18K and that he would only pay this as would have to train me. What a crook!


If you are an accountant why are you wanting to work for minimum wage as an estate agent ?
allowed7 h, 7 m ago

You would need an accountant and that would cost £250-400 per year which …You would need an accountant and that would cost £250-400 per year which you would have to pay


No you wouldn't, anyone who can do a bit of basic maths and fill out a few forms can do their own self assessment.
eslick1 h, 37 m ago

If you are an accountant why are you wanting to work for minimum wage as …If you are an accountant why are you wanting to work for minimum wage as an estate agent ?


possibly the OP is not qualified or have good qualifications to get a well paid job. it is a tough world out there with so much competition, you have to be very bright, brighter than your peers to get a well paid job if you have just left uni or college.

you have to start some where though
Original Poster
eslick13 h, 50 m ago

If you are an accountant why are you wanting to work for minimum wage as …If you are an accountant why are you wanting to work for minimum wage as an estate agent ?


I'm working as an Accounts assistant for estate agents
coventgamer47 m ago

I'm working as an Accounts assistant for estate agents


So not really a qualified accountant then? Its like calling yourself a computer programmer because you can use Ms Word
chocci1 h, 15 m ago

So not really a qualified accountant then? Its like calling yourself a …So not really a qualified accountant then? Its like calling yourself a computer programmer because you can use Ms Word


in the OP's defence, he did not say he was a chartered accountant. definition of an accountant below

accountant

noun

a person whose job is to keep or inspect financial accounts.
mutley11 h, 30 m ago

in the OP's defence, he did not say he was a chartered accountant. …in the OP's defence, he did not say he was a chartered accountant. definition of an accountant below accountantnouna person whose job is to keep or inspect financial accounts.


Source? In other works, a bookkeeper.
What is a bookkeeper?
veedubjai3 h, 2 m ago

Source? In other works, a bookkeeper. What is a bookkeeper?


i just googled, what is an accountant and that is what it came up with
This person does sound young & inexperienced otherwise he wouldn’t be asking for advice on this website. I admire this person for trying to better their situation as it is very competitive to get on the career ladder as a trainee accountant. Good luck with this role
Shame about n these estate agencies for ripping off their employees
Original Poster
The job at the estate agents is dodgy but I need to take the assistant accounts job to live on and gain experience. It is a shame that the estate agents won't employ me on a full time employed basis.
coventgamer1 h, 12 m ago

The job at the estate agents is dodgy but I need to take the assistant …The job at the estate agents is dodgy but I need to take the assistant accounts job to live on and gain experience. It is a shame that the estate agents won't employ me on a full time employed basis.


i did google whether it was standard practice for estate agents to employ people on self employed basis and it seem not to be, so you could look at other estate agents in the area?

there are jobs where you work with accounts that are not based at an estate agencies. have a look at other accounts related jobs.
A friend of my daughters works as a PA/Assistant in an estate agents and she is paid under £18,000 and all the staff there are consultants. She told me that the Owner of this estate agency doesn’t treat his staff very well either whether that is true or not. I would strongly advise the OP person to avoid this job hearing what my daughters friend said. Avoid these jobs.
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