You could be breaking the law when de-icing your car and land a fine, here’s why

55
Found 3rd Nov 2017
express.co.uk/lif…ine

I have two questions about this article:

“One motorist was fined £30 on their driveway while defrosting their car, reported Chronicle Live, because he left the vehicle unattended with the engine running.

Police officers have warned that it is an offence to leave a car unattended with the engine running on the public highway.”

1. When did private driveways become public highways?

“Don’t use boiling water as this can cause the windscreen to scrape.”

2. How can boiling water scrape a windscreen?
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54 Comments
I will let the wife know. Thanks.
Looks like poor editing, boiling water isn't a good idea though.
Not surprised by this, it's an easy pull for a jobsworth copper with nothing better to do. Makes sense, under resourced to attend burglaries but someone defrosting their on their property they'll get the chopper out.
I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to throw water over the car with Ice, I feel the Windscreen will shatter. Just use classic DeIcer, Put the blowers on full heat with air con (to remove mositure) and takes a few mins to get done
freakstyler2 m ago

Not surprised by this, it's an easy pull for a jobsworth copper with …Not surprised by this, it's an easy pull for a jobsworth copper with nothing better to do. Makes sense, under resourced to attend burglaries but someone defrosting their on their property they'll get the chopper out.



I hope by chopper you mean helicopter...
darthvader666uk3 m ago

I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to …I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to throw water over the car with Ice, I feel the Windscreen will shatter. Just use classic DeIcer, Put the blowers on full heat with air con (to remove mositure) and takes a few mins to get done



Heated front windscreen is brilliant, windscreen clear by the time I reverse out of the drive.
Original Poster
darthvader666uk5 m ago

I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to …I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to throw water over the car with Ice, I feel the Windscreen will shatter. Just use classic DeIcer, Put the blowers on full heat with air con (to remove mositure) and takes a few mins to get done


My car has a front heated windscreen, so it’s even quicker for me
darthvader666uk49 m ago

I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to …I have been told cold water is fine but I just done have the "balls" to throw water over the car with Ice, I feel the Windscreen will shatter. Just use classic DeIcer, Put the blowers on full heat with air con (to remove mositure) and takes a few mins to get done




...or non-boiling hot water.

However, hot water will freeze again as quick (if not quicker) than cold water.

@Predikuesi

"1. When did private driveways become public highways?"

When they are shared for access for neighbours is the only example I can think of without further research.
Yes, it doesn't make sense.

"...Rule 123 in the Highway code states that “You MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road...”

As that reads, leaving the vehicle unattended with the engine running is an offence.
Adding two commas would avoid an offence being committed:

"...Rule 123 in the Highway code states that “You MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running, or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily, while that vehicle is stationary on a public road...”


"2. How can boiling water scrape a windscreen?
"

When "scrape" is spelled as "crack".
Edited by: "fanpages" 3rd Nov 2017
CoeK7 m ago

Heated front windscreen is brilliant, windscreen clear by the time I …Heated front windscreen is brilliant, windscreen clear by the time I reverse out of the drive.



Predikuesi4 m ago

My car has a front heated windscreen, so it’s even quicker for me


I wish I had a good enough car for one of them! Maybe my next one I should look out for one
freakstyler12 m ago

Not surprised by this, it's an easy pull for a jobsworth copper with …Not surprised by this, it's an easy pull for a jobsworth copper with nothing better to do. Makes sense, under resourced to attend burglaries but someone defrosting their on their property they'll get the chopper out.


Perhaps the jobsworth copper was avoiding the probability of being called out to a stolen vehicle because the idiot left his car running unattended?
darthvader666uk3 m ago

I wish I had a good enough car for one of them! Maybe my next one I …I wish I had a good enough car for one of them! Maybe my next one I should look out for one



I'm not exactly driving a Bugatti
Original Poster
CoeK3 m ago

I'm not exactly driving a Bugatti


Me neither, just a 2003 Ford Focus which I have had for 5 years.
this comes around every year.

just use luck warm water been doing it for 30 years and never had an issue, clears both side of the windscreen.
All our cars have heated windscreens. Has to be the best invention on a car in recent times.
I believe Ford had a patent on them for a number of years but this might have expired now?
118luke11 m ago

All our cars have heated windscreens. Has to be the best invention on a …All our cars have heated windscreens. Has to be the best invention on a car in recent times.I believe Ford had a patent on them for a number of years but this might have expired now?



For your further information:
[ en.wikipedia.org/wik…ear ]
I remember a guy after a tiring night shift at our place , came out to an iced up windscreen , grabbed a can of de-icer , sprayed it all over the windscreen , only to discover he had picked up a tin of WD40 by mistake .
Think he left it and got public transport as it wouldn't wash off
airfix41 m ago

Perhaps the jobsworth copper was avoiding the probability of being called …Perhaps the jobsworth copper was avoiding the probability of being called out to a stolen vehicle because the idiot left his car running unattended?



You’re being a tad over generous there aren’t you? A Police officer actually attending a real crime? That’s a new one on me, usually all they’re fit for is handing out crime numbers, going after Facebook/Twitter Trolls or drivers without Insurance or Tax.
plodging3 m ago

I remember a guy after a tiring night shift at our place , came out to an …I remember a guy after a tiring night shift at our place , came out to an iced up windscreen , grabbed a can of de-icer , sprayed it all over the windscreen , only to discover he had picked up a tin of WD40 by mistake . Think he left it and got public transport as it wouldn't wash off



I find the stench of those on public transport difficult to remove as well.
118luke15 m ago

All our cars have heated windscreens. Has to be the best invention on a …All our cars have heated windscreens. Has to be the best invention on a car in recent times.I believe Ford had a patent on them for a number of years but this might have expired now?



Yep ford did have the patent, that's why so many older fords have it, it did expire but I can't remember when exactly.
Forget the ticket, I'd be more concerned about the fact that your insurance would almost certainly be void! Only a true moron would leave their car with the keys in, even if my car is on the drive and I forget something from the house, I'll still turn the engine off and take the keys when I go to get it!
Edited by: "frakison" 3rd Nov 2017
Boiling water- no, but an Asda 4 pint bottle of lukewarm water clears every window in seconds. Been doing this for years, never had an issue. The only bother I've ever had is not jumping out of the way quick enough when the wiper flicks the water off
deeky5 m ago

Boiling water- no, but an Asda 4 pint bottle of lukewarm water clears …Boiling water- no, but an Asda 4 pint bottle of lukewarm water clears every window in seconds. Been doing this for years, never had an issue. The only bother I've ever had is not jumping out of the way quick enough when the wiper flicks the water off



haha yeah been hit by the water many times, good wake up call early in the morning
Oi Oi! I think you can get done on private land if what you are doing poses a nuisance or danger to the general public passing nearby.

Likewise, having half a litre of gin and driving round your field might seem its OK as not on a public road or putting the public at risk. But if Old Bill thinks your going come on to the public highway you might well find yourself in trouble!
CoeK2 h, 14 m ago

I'm not exactly driving a Bugatti



Predikuesi2 h, 11 m ago

Me neither, just a 2003 Ford Focus which I have had for 5 years.


Mines a 2010 Corsa, just didnt come with one
Legality aside, if your car gets nicked with the keys in the ignition, your insurance company won't pay a penny.
frakison3 h, 13 m ago

Forget the ticket, I'd be more concerned about the fact that your …Forget the ticket, I'd be more concerned about the fact that your insurance would almost certainly be void! Only a true moron would leave their car with the keys in, even if my car is on the drive and I forget something from the house, I'll still turn the engine off and take the keys when I go to get it!



splatsplatsplat10 m ago

Legality aside, if your car gets nicked with the keys in the ignition, …Legality aside, if your car gets nicked with the keys in the ignition, your insurance company won't pay a penny.




[ http//ww…tml ]

the circumstances of the incident // 5. how near was the driver to the car? // if the driver is very close to the car

Where drivers are standing right next to the car - although they may physically not be able to prevent the theft - their presence so close to the vehicle may make a theft unlikely, as it constitutes a deterrent. This might be the case, for example, where someone is attending to a child in the back of the car, or taking something out of the boot, when the theft was carried out.

Many "keys in car" clauses exclude theft cover "if the car is left unattended or unoccupied and the doors and boot are not locked or any window or roof opening/hood has not been secured closed or if the key(s) or other devices used to gain entry/operate the car are not removed from the car".

With this sort of wording, other factors - such as the driver's proximity to the car, ability to keep it under observation, prospect of intervening to prevent a theft etc - seem to be less significant. Consumers can fall foul of the exclusion simply by getting out of their cars, leaving keys in the ignition and failing to lock the car. A consumer could be standing right next to the car but, on a strict interpretation, the theft cover is excluded.

In deciding whether the driver's proximity to the keys was sufficient to make a theft unlikely, the location of the incident is important. What is a reasonable distance in the privacy of your own driveway may well be unreasonable in a busy public place.

6. our approach where a car is left on private property

When a car is on or close to private land - but unlocked with the ignition keys in or on it - in order to decide whether the keys have been "left", we will ask:

  • Was the car visible from and/or close to the public road?
  • Were the driveway gates (if any) open?
  • Were the doors or boot left open?
  • Was the engine running?

To consider whether thecar was effectively "left", we will take into account all the relevant factors, including:

  • the distance that the driver was from the car;
  • the length of time the driver was away from the car;
  • whether the driver went inside a building; and
  • whether the car was out of the driver's sight.
Heated Windscreen here.
fanpages31 m ago

[ …[ http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-insurance-keys-in-car.html ]the circumstances of the incident // 5. how near was the driver to the car? // if the driver is very close to the carWhere drivers are standing right next to the car - although they may physically not be able to prevent the theft - their presence so close to the vehicle may make a theft unlikely, as it constitutes a deterrent. This might be the case, for example, where someone is attending to a child in the back of the car, or taking something out of the boot, when the theft was carried out. Many "keys in car" clauses exclude theft cover "if the car is left unattended or unoccupied and the doors and boot are not locked or any window or roof opening/hood has not been secured closed or if the key(s) or other devices used to gain entry/operate the car are not removed from the car". With this sort of wording, other factors - such as the driver's proximity to the car, ability to keep it under observation, prospect of intervening to prevent a theft etc - seem to be less significant. Consumers can fall foul of the exclusion simply by getting out of their cars, leaving keys in the ignition and failing to lock the car. A consumer could be standing right next to the car but, on a strict interpretation, the theft cover is excluded. In deciding whether the driver's proximity to the keys was sufficient to make a theft unlikely, the location of the incident is important. What is a reasonable distance in the privacy of your own driveway may well be unreasonable in a busy public place. 6. our approach where a car is left on private propertyWhen a car is on or close to private land - but unlocked with the ignition keys in or on it - in order to decide whether the keys have been "left", we will ask:Was the car visible from and/or close to the public road?Were the driveway gates (if any) open?Were the doors or boot left open?Was the engine running? To consider whether the car was effectively "left", we will take into account all the relevant factors, including:the distance that the driver was from the car;the length of time the driver was away from the car;whether the driver went inside a building; andwhether the car was out of the driver's sight.


Proving my point?
deeky7 h, 37 m ago

Boiling water- no, but an Asda 4 pint bottle of lukewarm water clears …Boiling water- no, but an Asda 4 pint bottle of lukewarm water clears every window in seconds. Been doing this for years, never had an issue. The only bother I've ever had is not jumping out of the way quick enough when the wiper flicks the water off


Gave me an idea, would pee be the right temperature?.
.MUFC.7 m ago

Gave me an idea, would pee be the right temperature?.



I only use that if the lock is frozen, it's just the right height and has to be more precise
When did private driveways become public highways?


When motorists think the pavement is a 'driveway'
fanpages3 h, 58 m ago

Not in all cases.


We're talking about leaving a car unattended whilerunning here, so as per my comment and your quote from the ombudsman, this WOULD invalidate your insurance, I don't get your point? Are you saying that there are instances where you would get paid out if you left the car running unattended while it thawed out?
Edited by: "frakison" 3rd Nov 2017
.MUFC.1 h, 27 m ago

Gave me an idea, would pee be the right temperature?.


Body temp is about 37 degrees so it would be fine...... just don't have sugar puffs for breakfast!!!
frakison10 m ago

We're talking about leaving a car unattended whilerunning here, so as per …We're talking about leaving a car unattended whilerunning here, so as per my comment and your quote from the ombudsman, this WOULD invalidate your insurance, I don't get your point? Are you saying that there are instances where you would get paid out if you left the car running unattended while it thawed out?



Yes, Did you read the whole article at the link I provided?
fanpages1 h, 40 m ago

Yes, Did you read the whole article at the link I provided?


I have, from what I read, leaving the car unattended while it defrosts falls foul of virtually every test? However, you are of course welcome to test it, but I would think that the majority of Insurance firms will have access to better legal teams than we could afford. As Dirty Harry said, "do you feel lucky punk?"

I reiterate rate my point that anyone who leaves their car unattended while running, (unless it's due to an emergency situation), is a moron, would you leave your wallet on your driveway unattended?
Edited by: "frakison" 4th Nov 2017
frakison6 h, 57 m ago

I have, from what I read, leaving the car unattended while it defrosts …I have, from what I read, leaving the car unattended while it defrosts falls foul of virtually every test?


...having line of sight of your vehicle in a close enough proximity that would be deemed (legally) reasonable to deter or prevent a theft (even though if a theft occurred & you may be unable to stop the thief), or be attending to a task on the vehicle (such as loading/unloading from the boot, inflating tyres, or cleaning light lenses, for instance) could be argued as not leaving the vehicle unattended.

frakison6 h, 57 m ago

However, you are of course welcome to test it, but I would think that the …However, you are of course welcome to test it, but I would think that the majority of Insurance firms will have access to better legal teams than we could afford.



Hence why financial ombudsman officials exist; to arbitrate in such cases.

frakison6 h, 57 m ago

I reiterate rate my point that anyone who leaves their car unattended …I reiterate rate my point that anyone who leaves their car unattended while running, (unless it's due to an emergency situation), is a moron, would you leave your wallet on your driveway unattended?


I would (& have) left it in my car on my drive.

Saying that, I wouldn't leave personal details or documents in an envelope in the custardy of a third party, but many people use Cloud Computing servers to store such items on a regular basis.
deeky9 h, 53 m ago

I only use that if the lock is frozen, it's just the right height and has …I only use that if the lock is frozen, it's just the right height and has to be more precise


Do you insert it into the lock?
frakison9 h, 36 m ago

We're talking about leaving a car unattended whilerunning here, so as per …We're talking about leaving a car unattended whilerunning here, so as per my comment and your quote from the ombudsman, this WOULD invalidate your insurance, I don't get your point? Are you saying that there are instances where you would get paid out if you left the car running unattended while it thawed out?


Yes, if it's locked. Most people have two sets of car keys
Edited by: "chocci" 4th Nov 2017
fanpages1 h, 14 m ago

..... in the custardy of a third party, but many people use Cloud …..... in the custardy of a third party, but many people use Cloud Computing servers to store such items on a regular basis.


A collectors item.




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