Your views following the recent incidents in Manchester and London

Found 4th Jun
I was sent a video earlier today of J Corbyn in 2003 (I'm sure it's available on Youtube) warning that UK involvement in armed conflicts abroad (namely Afghanistan and Iraq then, but I suppose it applies to Syria, Libya and elsewhere now) would lead to us becoming less secure at home and in greater danger of attacks like those carried out recently.

From my memory, pre-US lead conflicts in the above mentioned countries we did not have a problem with Islamic extremism.

My question, shouldn't our security and well being be placed before any do good actions abroad? Why not leave them all to it as Corbyn suggested?

It's all good blaming the internet like PM May did today but surely there is a simpler and cheaper option to the tax paper by pulling out of these conflicts. Spend the money saved on us and live peacefully and securely as country again.

Pipe dream?

Top comments

Bombing other countries is never going to make anything better.
I just hope all people realise these terrorists are targeting everyone and anyone and religion plays absolutely no part despite what the claim.

Yes - let's get out of the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa.

Look at Afghanistan. Over a decade of US troops there and less than a few years later and a third of the country isn't under the Government's control and the Taliban have returned.

In 2013 David Cameron authorised the arming of Syrian rebels to fight Assad. Some of these rebels went onto form ISIS.

Iraq was apparently liberated but also turned into a cess pit for extremism in the wake of Saddam Hussein being ousted and executed. Same with Gaddaffi in Libya.

We should stay out of these countries business and let the dictators rule them with an iron fist. Some of the people from these nations share views that are incompatible with the Western world.

Also, let's stop the hypocrisy of supplying arms to suppressive nations such as Saudi Arabia.

Let these countries deal with their own struggles. If they want to kill one another then so be it. We are not the watchmen of the world.

The people only ever get radicalised in the aftermath of so called Liberations.

The sad thing is, I don't honestly think we've been to war for "do-good actions" - it's all been for oil, power and greed.

cowsindahouse

dirty masonshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwh32LxJV4&feature=youtu.be


Pathetic, conspiracy theories with no solid evidence as per usual. Stop with this false flag bs and get in the real world these muslim terrorists are living amongst us and we need to get them out...
104 Comments

Bombing other countries is never going to make anything better.
I just hope all people realise these terrorists are targeting everyone and anyone and religion plays absolutely no part despite what the claim.

cowsindahouse

dirty masonshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwh32LxJV4&feature=youtu.be


Pathetic, conspiracy theories with no solid evidence as per usual. Stop with this false flag bs and get in the real world these muslim terrorists are living amongst us and we need to get them out...

So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible for this mess?

Yes - let's get out of the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa.

Look at Afghanistan. Over a decade of US troops there and less than a few years later and a third of the country isn't under the Government's control and the Taliban have returned.

In 2013 David Cameron authorised the arming of Syrian rebels to fight Assad. Some of these rebels went onto form ISIS.

Iraq was apparently liberated but also turned into a cess pit for extremism in the wake of Saddam Hussein being ousted and executed. Same with Gaddaffi in Libya.

We should stay out of these countries business and let the dictators rule them with an iron fist. Some of the people from these nations share views that are incompatible with the Western world.

Also, let's stop the hypocrisy of supplying arms to suppressive nations such as Saudi Arabia.

Let these countries deal with their own struggles. If they want to kill one another then so be it. We are not the watchmen of the world.

The people only ever get radicalised in the aftermath of so called Liberations.

The sad thing is, I don't honestly think we've been to war for "do-good actions" - it's all been for oil, power and greed.

WitnessTheFitness

Pathetic, conspiracy theories with no solid evidence as per usual. Stop … Pathetic, conspiracy theories with no solid evidence as per usual. Stop with this false flag bs and get in the real world these muslim terrorists are living amongst us and we need to get them out...




You give yourself away, my only surprise is that you didn't try and use empathy as a weapon.

thrustmaster

So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible … So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible for this mess?



I don't think anyone is debating that. Blair has blood on his hands. Shame on the Tories for continuing those same interventionist policies when they should have known better! Dropping more bombs will not help!!

thrustmaster

So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible … So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible for this mess?


Nope more like the first Gulf war.Under Tories.

How would you explain the recent muslim attacks in Egypt, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan and many others, are they down to our foreign policy as well or is there a simpler explanation?

dtovey89

Yes - let's get out of the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa. … Yes - let's get out of the Middle East, Central Asia and North Africa. Look at Afghanistan. Over a decade of US troops there and less than a few years later and a third of the country isn't under the Government's control and the Taliban have returned. In 2013 David Cameron authorised the arming of Syrian rebels to fight Assad. Some of these rebels went onto form ISIS. Iraq was apparently liberated but also turned into a cess pit for extremism in the wake of Saddam Hussein being ousted and executed. Same with Gaddaffi in Libya. We should stay out of these countries business and let the dictators rule them with an iron fist. Some of the people from these nations share views that are incompatible with the Western world. Also, let's stop the hypocrisy of supplying arms to suppressive nations such as Saudi Arabia. Let these countries deal with their own struggles. If they want to kill one another then so be it. We are not the watchmen of the world. The people only ever get radicalised in the aftermath of so called Liberations.



There's an excellent video that's been posted on this forum about the formation of ISIS and it doesn't suggest that it had anything to do with the arming of Syrian rebels by the UK. Where did you get your info on that?

Splender posted it

Edited by: "OllieSt" 4th Jun

thrustmaster

So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible … So can we accept that the party Corbyn now leads is largely responsible for this mess?


You are literally centuries out ... Labour let them in to breed and teach the hatred to offspring but the revenge has been sought for centuries

coys67

How would you explain the recent muslim attacks in Egypt, Iraq, … How would you explain the recent muslim attacks in Egypt, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan and many others, are they down to our foreign policy as well or is there a simpler explanation?



Here's the latest country to be attacked

anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 needs to review their history...

1980s for a start

Kuwait
December 12, 1983
The 90-minute coordinated 1983 Kuwait bombings of six key foreign and Kuwaiti installations including two embassies, the airport, and the country's main petro-chemical plant, was more notable for the damage it might have caused than what was actually destroyed. What could have been "the worst terrorist episode of the twentieth century in the Middle East" succeeded in killing only six people because of the bombs' faulty rigging.

50 casualties

Lebanon
September 20, 1984The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing in Beirut.
24 casualties

Indonesia
January 21, 1985The Buddhist Borobudur temple in Java was damaged by 9 bombs.
0
casualties

Spain
April 12, 19851985 El Descanso bombing.

18 casualties

Greece
June 14, 1985
TWA Flight 847 hijacking.
1 casualties

Denmark
22 July 1985
Copenhagen bombings
1 casualties

Turkey
September 6, 1986
Neve Shalom Synagogue attack.
22 casualties

Israel
July 7, 1989
Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim.
16 casualties

Any actual evidence?? Nope

OllieSt

There's an excellent video that's been posted on this forum about the … There's an excellent video that's been posted on this forum about the formation of ISIS and it doesn't suggest that it had anything to do with the arming of Syrian rebels by the UK. Where did you get your info on that?Splender posted it



Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS?

I said we armed Syrian rebels. Some went on to form and/or join ISIS.

Completely different.

The same happened with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the Afghan-Soviet war. The FBI trained some Mujahideen who would go onto form the Taliban.

Both the Taliban and ISIS would have formed anyway but it doesn't help with the West training/arming them in their preconceived stages.

https://qz.com/558597/charted-terror-attacks-in-western-europe-from-the-1970s-to-now/
It seems bad at the moment because of a 20 year hiatus. To see how much worse it has been have a look at this article, the facts in which are easily checked

davewave

anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 … anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 needs to review their history...1980s for a startKuwaitDecember 12, 1983The 90-minute coordinated 1983 Kuwait bombings of six key foreign and Kuwaiti installations including two embassies, the airport, and the country's main petro-chemical plant, was more notable for the damage it might have caused than what was actually destroyed. What could have been "the worst terrorist episode of the twentieth century in the Middle East" succeeded in killing only six people because of the bombs' faulty rigging. 50 casualtiesLebanonSeptember 20, 1984The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing in Beirut. 24 casualtiesIndonesiaJanuary 21, 1985The Buddhist Borobudur temple in Java was damaged by 9 bombs. 0 casualtiesSpainApril 12, 19851985 El Descanso bombing.18 casualtiesGreeceJune 14, 1985TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 casualtiesDenmark22 July 1985Copenhagen bombings1 casualtiesTurkeySeptember 6, 1986Neve Shalom Synagogue attack.22 casualtiesIsraelJuly 7, 1989Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim.16 casualties



You strangely have ommited Oct 1983 Lebanese barrack bombings.

241 US & 58 French peacekeepers as well as 6 civilians slain.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 4th Jun

OllieSt

You strangely have ommited Oct 1983 Lebanese barrack bombings.241 US & 58 … You strangely have ommited Oct 1983 Lebanese barrack bombings.241 US & 58 French peacekeepers as well as 6 civilians slain.



​glad you added it, writing on mob.

dtovey89

Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian … Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian rebels. Some went on to form and/or join ISIS. Completely different. The same happened with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the Afghan-Soviet war. The FBI trained some Mujahideen who would go onto form the Taliban. Both the Taliban and ISIS would have formed anyway but it doesn't help with the West training/arming them in their preconceived stages.




Hang on you said Some of these rebels went onto form, NOW YOU SAY form and/or join ISIS.

And you say to me Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS?

All I said was 'the formation of ISIS and it doesn't suggest that it had anything to do with the arming of Syrian rebels by the UK.'


And you're trying to pull me up on misquoting you.

Are you for real

davewave

anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 … anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 needs to review their history...1980s for a startKuwaitDecember 12, 1983The 90-minute coordinated 1983 Kuwait bombings of six key foreign and Kuwaiti installations including two embassies, the airport, and the country's main petro-chemical plant, was more notable for the damage it might have caused than what was actually destroyed. What could have been "the worst terrorist episode of the twentieth century in the Middle East" succeeded in killing only six people because of the bombs' faulty rigging. 50 casualtiesLebanonSeptember 20, 1984The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing in Beirut. 24 casualtiesIndonesiaJanuary 21, 1985The Buddhist Borobudur temple in Java was damaged by 9 bombs. 0 casualtiesSpainApril 12, 19851985 El Descanso bombing.18 casualtiesGreeceJune 14, 1985TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 casualtiesDenmark22 July 1985Copenhagen bombings1 casualtiesTurkeySeptember 6, 1986Neve Shalom Synagogue attack.22 casualtiesIsraelJuly 7, 1989Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim.16 casualties



Holy Cow. What a coincidence ALL of the above happened after Israel invaded Lebanon.

OllieSt

Hang on you said Some of these rebels went onto form, NOW YOU SAY form … Hang on you said Some of these rebels went onto form, NOW YOU SAY form and/or join ISIS. And you say to me Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS?All I said was 'the formation of ISIS and it doesn't suggest that it had anything to do with the arming of Syrian rebels by the UK.'And you're trying to pull me up on misquoting you.Are you for real



What is your aim? Are you going to spend your Sunday night trying to dissect my words.

Form... Join... Whatever.
ISIS were formed after a split from previous groups in April 2013 and declared a worldwide caliphate a year later.
It has been reported that rebels armed in 2013 went onto join ISIS. Some of these could have been founding members of the split.

I don't really give a damn if you want to scrutinise my words. Arming this scum did nothing but worsen the situation and you wasting your time picking apart my words rather than agreeing is borderline acting like an apologist.

Now please stop wasting your time.
I deplore them.

To the citizens of some countries, WE are the terrorists.

dtovey89

Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian … Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian rebels. Some went on to form and/or join ISIS. Completely different. The same happened with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the Afghan-Soviet war. The FBI trained some Mujahideen who would go onto form the Taliban. Both the Taliban and ISIS would have formed anyway but it doesn't help with the West training/arming them in their preconceived stages.


Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it takes to have a end game world that only consists of the "friendly faith" ?
That is really the only question that needs answering as terrorists are not involved in this religious assault but murderers as negotiations are not possible
Unfortunately the door was left open under the Tony + Cherie roadshow and the decades old "by mass population" just grew , faith schools were allowed to teach offspring the hatred for the west and today we have what we have which is the enemy within... things can only get worse moving forwards until faith schools are shut and children are not taught fairytales ... VOILA
Edited by: "livinthedream" 4th Jun

livinthedream4 m ago

Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it …Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it takes to have a end game world that only consists of the "friendly faith" ? That is really the only question that needs answering as terrorists are not involved in this religious assault but murderers as negotiations are not possible Unfortunately the door was left open under the Tony + Cherie roadshow and the decades old "by mass population" just grew , faith schools were allowed to teach offspring the hatred for the west and today we have what we have which is the enemy within... things can only get worse moving forwards until faith schools are shut and children are not taught fairytales ... VOILA


Are you suggesting that all faith schools, Catholic, CofE, Islamic, Sikh etc, should be shut?

davewave

anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 … anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 needs to review their history...1980s for a startKuwaitDecember 12, 1983The 90-minute coordinated 1983 Kuwait bombings of six key foreign and Kuwaiti installations including two embassies, the airport, and the country's main petro-chemical plant, was more notable for the damage it might have caused than what was actually destroyed. What could have been "the worst terrorist episode of the twentieth century in the Middle East" succeeded in killing only six people because of the bombs' faulty rigging. 50 casualtiesLebanonSeptember 20, 1984The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing in Beirut. 24 casualtiesIndonesiaJanuary 21, 1985The Buddhist Borobudur temple in Java was damaged by 9 bombs. 0 casualtiesSpainApril 12, 19851985 El Descanso bombing.18 casualtiesGreeceJune 14, 1985TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 casualtiesDenmark22 July 1985Copenhagen bombings1 casualtiesTurkeySeptember 6, 1986Neve Shalom Synagogue attack.22 casualtiesIsraelJuly 7, 1989Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim.16 casualties



davewave

anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 … anyone who thinks that Islamist terrorism started around the time of 9-11 needs to review their history...1980s for a startKuwaitDecember 12, 1983The 90-minute coordinated 1983 Kuwait bombings of six key foreign and Kuwaiti installations including two embassies, the airport, and the country's main petro-chemical plant, was more notable for the damage it might have caused than what was actually destroyed. What could have been "the worst terrorist episode of the twentieth century in the Middle East" succeeded in killing only six people because of the bombs' faulty rigging. 50 casualtiesLebanonSeptember 20, 1984The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing in Beirut. 24 casualtiesIndonesiaJanuary 21, 1985The Buddhist Borobudur temple in Java was damaged by 9 bombs. 0 casualtiesSpainApril 12, 19851985 El Descanso bombing.18 casualtiesGreeceJune 14, 1985TWA Flight 847 hijacking. 1 casualtiesDenmark22 July 1985Copenhagen bombings1 casualtiesTurkeySeptember 6, 1986Neve Shalom Synagogue attack.22 casualtiesIsraelJuly 7, 1989Tel Aviv Jerusalem bus 405 suicide attack, near Kiryat Yearim.16 casualties


this list looks and smells like a very incomplete list, looks a la style car crash interview with Jeremy Paxman and may just cost £300,000 to eradict by extra police with such a short choice selection. There are thousands of cases of all over the world from Peru to Jappan terrorism since 1980s.

dave80

To the citizens of some countries, WE are the terrorists.


Not anymore, lol, that was the case in 18th and 19th century.

Truthsayer54

Holy Cow. What a coincidence ALL of the above happened after Israel … Holy Cow. What a coincidence ALL of the above happened after Israel invaded Lebanon.



​...you found a way to blame Israel, not terrorists killing random people. Pray tell what did Denmark or Greece for instance have to do with Israel?

Islamist Terrorism is beyond excuse, justification or cause...it's simply selfish bullying and dumb hatred

livinthedream

Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it … Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it takes to have a end game world that only consists of the "friendly faith" ? That is really the only question that needs answering as terrorists are not involved in this religious assault but murderers as negotiations are not possible Unfortunately the door was left open under the Tony + Cherie roadshow and the decades old "by mass population" just grew , faith schools were allowed to teach offspring the hatred for the west and today we have what we have which is the enemy within... things can only get worse moving forwards until faith schools are shut and children are not taught fairytales ... VOILA


Not many fight for faith or religion, even when they claimed to be, fighters are usually motivated by national identity and territory. In the case of East Africa, sunni versus shiite.

livinthedream

Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it … Why do so many who follow the "friendly faith" want to do WHATEVER it takes to have a end game world that only consists of the "friendly faith" ? That is really the only question that needs answering as terrorists are not involved in this religious assault but murderers as negotiations are not possible Unfortunately the door was left open under the Tony + Cherie roadshow and the decades old "by mass population" just grew , faith schools were allowed to teach offspring the hatred for the west and today we have what we have which is the enemy within... things can only get worse moving forwards until faith schools are shut and children are not taught fairytales ... VOILA


I want to know why you aren't yet banned.
Since yesterday, most of your comments here seem to consist of hate speech and trolling.
I personally reported several of your rules breaking posts yet you remain unscathed.
I can only presume the administrators of this site are content with hate speech and trolling, or else you are closely associated with the staff here.

RonChew

Are you suggesting that all faith schools, Catholic, CofE, Islamic, Sikh … Are you suggesting that all faith schools, Catholic, CofE, Islamic, Sikh etc, should be shut?


If their particular faith has a detrimental effect to Britains Christian values rather than living alongside it then a definite yes
I think you know the score with what happening and I will openly say that the only problem to peaceful folk in the uk seems to be from the friendly religion. I presume that because when they are murdering people they always shout its for allah
Can't imagine them being Sikhs , Coe or Catholics ?

Destard

I want to know why you aren't yet banned.Since yesterday, most of your … I want to know why you aren't yet banned.Since yesterday, most of your comments here seem to consist of hate speech and trolling.I personally reported several of your rules breaking posts yet you remain unscathed.I can only presume the administrators of this site are content with hate speech and trolling, or else you are closely associated with the staff here.


Or maybe the truth hurts when it is forced upon you ?

livinthedream

Or maybe the truth hurts when it is forced upon you ?


The truth that the administrators are content with your comments, or that you are associated with the staff?
Which did you mean?

splender

Not many fight for faith or religion, even when they claimed to be, … Not many fight for faith or religion, even when they claimed to be, fighters are usually motivated by national identity and territory. In the case of East Africa, sunni versus shiite.


Think the whole world knows that this is different

Destard

The truth that the administrators are content with your comments, or that … The truth that the administrators are content with your comments, or that you are associated with the staff?Which did you mean?


Mom of the above. Think you understood my valid comment. The truth hurts

livinthedream

Mom of the above. Think you understood my valid comment. The truth … Mom of the above. Think you understood my valid comment. The truth hurts


Sorry, what is this truth that you speak of?
Don't be afraid, it seems the staff have your back so you can say whatever you like. Go ahead please.

dtovey89

Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian … Where did I say arming Syrian rebels caused ISIS? I said we armed Syrian rebels. Some went on to form and/or join ISIS. Completely different. The same happened with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the Afghan-Soviet war. The FBI trained some Mujahideen who would go onto form the Taliban. Both the Taliban and ISIS would have formed anyway but it doesn't help with the West training/arming them in their preconceived stages.


You are right of course on foreign policy influence, as to training , I wouldn't apportion that much on west training and arming.
What this video shows youtube.com/wat…cJA (History of ISIS , by Professor Fawaz A. Gerges at the London School of Economics and Political Science is that the cause of troubles in the Middle East is due to a multi-facetted breakdown at all levels between the state (systems) and the society.
.
In UK, as can be seen from Brexit Referendum, and general election next week, there is some significant level of breakdown of state (systems) and society. We have rejected EU as an undemocratic establishment (right or wrong); we are rejecting society and its socialist binding forces, we are rejecting Corbyn and May and what they represent as state power....and so on. And if millions became jobless, and many millions became hungry, as in Iraq, you could see we would rapidly descend into terrorism ourselves.
Edited by: "splender" 4th Jun

livinthedream11 m ago

If their particular faith has a detrimental effect to Britains Christian …If their particular faith has a detrimental effect to Britains Christian values rather than living alongside it then a definite yes I think you know the score with what happening and I will openly say that the only problem to peaceful folk in the uk seems to be from the friendly religion. I presume that because when they are murdering people they always shout its for allah Can't imagine them being Sikhs , Coe or Catholics ?



I would have agreed that there probably is no place in Britain any more for faith schools. But, it seems that you are only referring to Islamic schools. Are you aware that what you are saying constitutes a religious hate crime? Or what the penalties are for this type of crime?

Destard

The truth that the administrators are content with your comments, or that … The truth that the administrators are content with your comments, or that you are associated with the staff?Which did you mean?


I believe he had a number of deleted comments.

ISIS wrote a six reasons listicle to explain why they hate the West
1. Because you are disbelievers
"We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices."

2 . Because you are liberal
"We hate you because your secular, liberal societies permit the very things that Allah has prohibited while banning many of the things He has permitted, a matter that doesn’t concern you because you Christian disbelief and paganism 32 separate between religion and state, thereby granting supreme authority to your whims and desires via the legislators you vote into power."

3. Because some of you are atheist
"In the case of the atheist fringe, we hate you and wage war against you because you disbelieve in the existence of your Lord and Creator."

4. For your crimes against Islam
"We hate you for your crimes against Islam and wage war against you to punish you for your transgressions against our religion."

5. For your crimes against Muslims
"We hate you for your crimes against the Muslims; your drones and fighter jets bomb, kill, and maim our people around the world, and your puppets in the usurped lands of the Muslims oppress, torture, and wage war against anyone who calls to the truth."

6. For invading our lands
"We hate you for invading our lands and fight you to repel you and drive you out. As long as there is an inch of territory left for us to reclaim, jihad will continue to be a personal obligation on every single Muslim."

"What’s important to understand here is that although some might argue that your foreign policies are the extent of what drives our hatred, this particular reason for hating you is secondary, hence the reason we addressed it at the end of the above list.
"The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam."


dailyrecord.co.uk/new…251
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