68 Comments

Banned

how about posting deals for the major/known sites? If a site small then how can people establish it is safe to use?

Original Poster

doughnuty;2155976

how about posting deals for the major/known sites? If a site small then … how about posting deals for the major/known sites? If a site small then how can people establish it is safe to use?



Exactly.. my thoughts too.. and what defines a small / large site..

cause there are several businesses that start small..and to get noticed, have several deals on market. in order to gain customers.

For the end users, it really becomes hard to identify what is deemed as acceptable and not acceptable.

unless u are suggesting that we only post deals about reputable sites.. in which case.. I believe a deal is a deal.. and the end user should perhaps have the knowledge to identify if its a reputable site. The way HOTUKDEALS stands, it something that we share with others to provide a bargain, a deal... and not necessarily vouch for the reputation of the company we may be buying from. If that's the case, several deals can be identified which perhaps needs justification.

Ta

Don't understand it myself..
Same as Amazon marketplace. If you post a direct link to the "Marketplace" sellers website, is that OK?

Banned

rockyfella;2156073

Don't understand it myself..Same as Amazon marketplace. If you post a … Don't understand it myself..Same as Amazon marketplace. If you post a direct link to the "Marketplace" sellers website, is that OK?



no, hukd does not allow deals from amazon market place sellers

Humiliation and degradation for having a "Deal" pulled. :thinking:

Banned

kDmG;2156021

Exactly.. my thoughts too.. and what defines a small / large site.. cause … Exactly.. my thoughts too.. and what defines a small / large site.. cause there are several businesses that start small..and to get noticed, have several deals on market. in order to gain customers. For the end users, it really becomes hard to identify what is deemed as acceptable and not acceptable.unless u are suggesting that we only post deals about reputable sites.. in which case.. I believe a deal is a deal.. and the end user should perhaps have the knowledge to identify if its a reputable site. The way HOTUKDEALS stands, it something that we share with others to provide a bargain, a deal... and not necessarily vouch for the reputation of the company we may be buying from. If that's the case, several deals can be identified which perhaps needs justification. Ta



well you posted a deal linking to an ebay seller shop- this goes against the forum rules and thats why it was removed (i presume). I understand your frustration but can you imagine if ebay seller shops were permitted and the amount of self promotion that would then go on?

Original Poster

doughnuty;2156158

well you posted a deal linking to an ebay seller shop- this goes against … well you posted a deal linking to an ebay seller shop- this goes against the forum rules and thats why it was removed (i presume). I understand your frustration but can you imagine if ebay seller shops were permitted and the amount of self promotion that would then go on?



yes.. but at the time of posting, I could select "DIGIDAVE" from the merchant category.

Since the time of posting my deal to now, the text has been added when you select digidave as a merchant as "DigiDave (DO NOT POST DEALS). But at the same time, when I posted my deal, a reply was generated saying three deals had been posted about the deal I posted regarding the free router. If text such as this was added earlier.. it would have save me as TheSaint also emphasises my voice, it is humiating and degrading to me as a member.

This site, hotukdeals at one point in time started small, and with a few members at the time growing to what it has. Ofcourse, with more members, comes more "nonsensical" craps that get removed. However, there also is a need of perhaps informing newer members of what is acceptable and not acceptable. E.G. if you were to post a thread, perhaps a "i accept" clause detailing that the site is not part of ebay sellers or amazon market place.

And even if the member posting the deal posted such an item, e.g. myself, then there should not be humilation. Looking at digidave site, how can one possible tell if it belongs to ebay sellers or not.

I quote emma's p.m. in my first post.. How about showing a little courtesy when writing that PM.. no one can be that rushed off that feet... and phraising it politely would always help. The PM to me suggests me as a culprit to the site rather then a valued member.

Thanks

Banned

It's just unfortuante

Banned

I agree once a deal has been posted from a merchant hukd does not allow then soemthing should be put into place so that said merchant/persons name cannot be posted as a deal again (like a banned merchant/member)

Banned

edi said on another thread

We dont allow sites / deals associated with ebay. The site you've posted is owned by a ebay powerseller

So how come Orange deals and others who have ebay shops are allowed to be posted?

It is good forum etiquette to ask for permission before posting someone's private messages.

To continue on from your quoting the forum code of conduct, or the newcomers guides:

We reserve the right to delete any deals, messages or posts and for any … We reserve the right to delete any deals, messages or posts and for any reason at all. It's also not a given right to expect an explanation why this is done either by PM or in a thread reply. However, we will try to let you know provided we have the time and ability to do so.



Can we have a list of merchants that we can post deals about please



Regarding this - it's just not possible - there are currently about 10,000 merchants in the list - give or take a few. You post a merchant, then we decide if it's suitable or not, based on a lot of different factors.

The reason digidave was in the merchant list was because it has been posted about 10 times today by many different members. We have now changed the merchant name to "Digidave - DO NOT POST DEALS" - we have done this in the past but people ignore it and keep posting for them.

colinsunderland;2156608

edi said on another threadWe dont allow sites / deals associated with … edi said on another threadWe dont allow sites / deals associated with ebay. The site you've posted is owned by a ebay powersellerSo how come Orange deals and others who have ebay shops are allowed to be posted?



Orange don't primarily sell on eBay though. They just happen to have opened that up as a secondary.

But if someone is running a small eBay shop then the chances are that they won't be able to handle the volume of orders (with regards to processing them and sending them out). This means that you're either likely to be left waiting for a product or worse, without the product at all.

It's the equivalent of posting my corner shop's deal on 2p vimto lollies here then watching 200 people queue up at his shop to buy them. Only one guy, let's call him "Bob", works there - and he really can't cope. After all, he's 96.

duckmagicuk2;2156888

Orange don't primarily sell on eBay though. They just happen to have … Orange don't primarily sell on eBay though. They just happen to have opened that up as a secondary.But if someone is running a small eBay shop then the chances are that they won't be able to handle the volume of orders (with regards to processing them and sending them out). This means that you're either likely to be left waiting for a product or worse, without the product at all.It's the equivalent of posting my corner shop's deal on 2p vimto lollies here then watching 200 people queue up at his shop to buy them. Only one guy, let's call him "Bob", works there - and he really can't cope. After all, he's 96.



OOo Vimto Lollies... can we have a link please...:whistling:

Bob should retire, or get a young lass to help him! :thumbsup:

rockyfella;2157095

Bob should retire, or get a young lass to help him! :thumbsup:



I think the excitement would be too much for him.

But yeah, hopefully you see one of the many reasons why it's not a good idea.

Banned

emmajk42;2156843

It is good forum etiquette to ask for permission before posting someone's … It is good forum etiquette to ask for permission before posting someone's private messages. To continue on from your quoting the forum code of conduct, or the newcomers guides: Regarding this - it's just not possible - there are currently about 10,000 merchants in the list - give or take a few. You post a merchant, then we decide if it's suitable or not, based on a lot of different factors. The reason digidave was in the merchant list was because it has been posted about 10 times today by many different members. We have now changed the merchant name to "Digidave - DO NOT POST DEALS" - we have done this in the past but people ignore it and keep posting for them.




is this going to be put next to all the ones not allowed, i think if it is its a great idea

Banned

duckmagicuk2;2156888

Orange don't primarily sell on eBay though. They just happen to have … Orange don't primarily sell on eBay though. They just happen to have opened that up as a secondary.But if someone is running a small eBay shop then the chances are that they won't be able to handle the volume of orders (with regards to processing them and sending them out). This means that you're either likely to be left waiting for a product or worse, without the product at all.It's the equivalent of posting my corner shop's deal on 2p vimto lollies here then watching 200 people queue up at his shop to buy them. Only one guy, let's call him "Bob", works there - and he really can't cope. After all, he's 96.



I don't understand that TBH. Firstly that isn't what edi said, and how do you know digidave's ebay sales aren't his secondary sales? I found what I think is his site and it doesn't mention ebay, I can't even find him on ebay.

I also think it would take a lot of orders for someone not to be able to process them, & if they are a powerseller then they must be processing quite a few already. I've easily managed 100+ in a day, and dare say I could cope with 250-300 myself, it's not that hard. Of course it would depend on the site and what the owner is like.

If a site is a proper web site, there are no self promotion issues and there are no links to ebay then I don't understand why they shouldn't be allowed.

kDmG;2156270

yes.. but at the time of posting, I could select "DIGIDAVE" from the … yes.. but at the time of posting, I could select "DIGIDAVE" from the merchant category. Since the time of posting my deal to now, the text has been added when you select digidave as a merchant as "DigiDave (DO NOT POST DEALS). But at the same time, when I posted my deal, a reply was generated saying three deals had been posted about the deal I posted regarding the free router. If text such as this was added earlier.. it would have save me as TheSaint also emphasises my voice, it is humiating and degrading to me as a member. This site, hotukdeals at one point in time started small, and with a few members at the time growing to what it has. Ofcourse, with more members, comes more "nonsensical" craps that get removed. However, there also is a need of perhaps informing newer members of what is acceptable and not acceptable. E.G. if you were to post a thread, perhaps a "i accept" clause detailing that the site is not part of ebay sellers or amazon market place. And even if the member posting the deal posted such an item, e.g. myself, then there should not be humilation. Looking at digidave site, how can one possible tell if it belongs to ebay sellers or not. I quote emma's p.m. in my first post.. How about showing a little courtesy when writing that PM.. no one can be that rushed off that feet... and phraising it politely would always help. The PM to me suggests me as a culprit to the site rather then a valued member. Thanks



I posted this deal earlier and it was marked as spam. Someone gave rep though as it was useful to them. I have bought off their website before and didn't see the issue either...

Funny thing is, I posted a deal about a month ago which got to 250+ hot and got no rep at all from it, yet i posted this, it was up for ten minutes and someone had found it useful enough to give rep...thems the brakes...I thought as it was in the dealers drop down box, it would be a legit post.

ah well...:oops:

Original Poster

sassie;2156439

I agree once a deal has been posted from a merchant hukd does not allow … I agree once a deal has been posted from a merchant hukd does not allow then soemthing should be put into place so that said merchant/persons name cannot be posted as a deal again (like a banned merchant/member)



[SIZE="3"]Yep.. My thoughts exactly. That way, every one is clear and consise about exactly which merchants are allowed and not allowed. [/SIZE]

Jonnym;2157237

I posted this deal earlier and it was marked as spam. Someone gave rep … I posted this deal earlier and it was marked as spam. Someone gave rep though as it was useful to them. I have bought off their website before and didn't see the issue either...ah well...:oops:



[SIZE="3"]Thats the whole point. Something that I find useful, be it eBay shop or not, the deal from digidave was pretty pretty kewl, especially if you are/were after the item. [/SIZE]

emmajk42;2156843

It is good forum etiquette to ask for permission before posting someone's … It is good forum etiquette to ask for permission before posting someone's private messages.



[SIZE="3"]I did PM you, not for permission to post your PM, but for a reasonable explanation about which merchants are allowed and which aren't. I received NO reply. I hence posted my thread here. It took a couple of minutes to pull the deal that I posted, but my PM never received a reply. [/SIZE]

emmajk42;2156843

To continue on from your quoting the forum code of conduct, or the … To continue on from your quoting the forum code of conduct, or the newcomers guides "We reserve the right to delete any deals, messages or posts and for any reason at all. It's also not a given right to expect an explanation why this is done either by PM or in a thread reply. However, we will try to let you know provided we have the time and ability to do so. "



Hand's up on this one. I did not read this in the code of conduct.

[SIZE="3"]But a suggestion would be if you could stick this information in the post you have included in the forum about where its mentioned "The idea is to create a community sharing deals with one another, so we can all grab a bargain" [/SIZE]

emmajk42;2156843

....Regarding this - it's just not possible - there are currently about … ....Regarding this - it's just not possible - there are currently about 10,000 merchants in the list - give or take a few. You post a merchant, then we decide if it's suitable or not, based on a lot of different factors. The reason digidave was in the merchant list was because it has been posted about 10 times today by many different members. We have now changed the merchant name to "Digidave - DO NOT POST DEALS" - we have done this in the past but people ignore it and keep posting for them.



[SIZE="3"]Yes, but if it has been posted 10 times before today.. that would indicated 10 deals of digidave removed. I am led to believe that getting digidave as a merchant is an automated task within vBulletin? Similarly, if this is the case, then removing this should be as simple as adding in the merchant.

But what gets me more is looking at digidave's site.. it does not mention ANYTHING about eBay. And plus if it was, i.e. he was an eBay seller.. why can't a bargain be seen as a bargain. I was not providing a deal with no benefits.. seriously. it was a free router but did have delivery charges that I clearly included in the header title of the post. If I linked an ebay shop directly etc.. that yes, can be frowned up, but surely not when a deal as good as this (according to me) was posted.

My issue is that for the end user (member), how can we know what we are posting is right or wrong, after all, you say that you have the right to remove posts without providing an explanation. [/SIZE]

doughnuty;2156345

It's just unfortuante



[SIZE="3"]Sure is, and its sad that as a member, I have to bring this up and perhaps end up looking like a pig to a lot of people as I am voicing something against a member of staff. Unfortunately I did not see any other way this time. I am staff of several bulletin boards, admins of some of them too and one thing that I have realised is that its the members that make up the forum and this too can be see within HKUD as there are tonnes of fab deals posted by members. However truly not being able to identify what is correct or not, and if not then having it pulled away.. thats the trouble.

Like I mentioned in the first post, my first deal was about ThaneDirect..that I thought was a fab deal, that got pulled. My second one, got pulled too, I am really finding it very difficult at present to think any other but that this is aimed at me personally. I wonder if I may every post a third deal when I find it.. pretty sure I shall not .. as chances are.. it's going to be pulled. [/SIZE]

kDmG;2157776

[SIZE=3]I did PM you, not for permission to post your PM, but for a … [SIZE=3]I did PM you, not for permission to post your PM, but for a reasonable explanation about which merchants are allowed and which aren't. I received NO reply. I hence posted my thread here. It took a couple of minutes to pull the deal that I posted, but my PM never received a reply. [/SIZE]



You PMed me at 5.10pm. Contrary to popular belief, I am not on here 24/7. You posted this thread at 5.19pm. Didn't really give me much time to reply, did you?


This is the way it is, we do not allow ebay based sellers. This particular seller on ebay has 52,219 feedbacks. That's pretty substantial. It's up to admin if site policy changes. If you want to offer your arguments in this thread, feel free.


Personally, I am strongly against allowing any ebay based sellers.

Original Poster

emmajk42;2159356

Personally, I am strongly against allowing any ebay based sellers.



Yes.. I think we got that covered, the question that would arise, how would one know what is an ebay based seller and what isn't. This really is very difficult for me and I presume for a lot of members to identify.

Coming back to digidave, perhaps to enhance my knowledge, how were you able to identify this is an ebay based seller?

Are you saying that we (members) just post deals and bargains of sites that are not obvious to us being ebay based seller and pray that they post does not get pulled???

Like i perhaps like to repeat, I posted a deal as soon as I could to this site..... Generally I find it pretty hard to find and post a deal not already here.

I do believe that rules are rules and they are there for a reason and I am not challenging that Its the fact that the rules to an end use may seem a bit vague and without clarity, the chances of this happening again and again seem pretty high up.

I find this all a bit odd tbh, I saw the deal and thought it a good deal and purchased via digidave's website - not ebay. I got an email a few hours later letting me know it was despatched with a tracking number which tbh is better service than most high street's websites.

btw I think the argument that an ebay "based" seller might not be able to cope with the demand is a tad insulting and wildly speculative.

kDmG;2159806

Yes.. I think we got that covered, the question that would arise, how … Yes.. I think we got that covered, the question that would arise, how would one know what is an ebay based seller and what isn't. This really is very difficult for me and I presume for a lot of members to identify



If you see any evidence of an ebay connection on a retail site, you're probably better off not posting it. As we will make a judgement on any new retailer on HUKD.

Another thing to look out for - we usually require that a company have a full address and phone number in the contact us section. Additionally, you can do a ]whois lookup on the domain, put the address into google maps, and if it appears to be a residential address, then it is also likely we will pull it.


kDmG;2159806

I do believe that rules are rules and they are there for a reason and I … I do believe that rules are rules and they are there for a reason and I am not challenging that Its the fact that the rules to an end use may seem a bit vague and without clarity, the chances of this happening again and again seem pretty high up.



Here's the issue - they're not rules as such when it comes to this kind of thing. We makes decision based on individual cases, so we cannot have one rule covering them all. All we can ask is that you share your finds, but don't be offended if we decide to remove them.

Original Poster

Thanks for that info regarding WHOIS. I personally also have ]CallingID installed as a toolbar for my browser that helps identify whether a site is safe to visit or not.

To quote the HKUDs deal anarchy "... where individuals have the freedom to recommend genuine bargains and deals to other individuals." and "... we do not believe that consumers have a right to act fraudulently and any illegal or fraudulent information will be removed... "

I am pretty sure (staff may have more information then me on this) that the posted bargain regarding digidave post was not fradulent. Though DigiDave has been identified as an ebay seller, why not in the case enhance the site further such as if there was a bargain by an ebay seller/shop, that it is allowed to be posted, perhaps under a different category as such, afterall, it is/was a genuine bargain.

For an end user such as myself, I am after a good bargain, a good deal and if HKUD provides a way to display this, then surely that cannot be seen as a negative impact can it?

Would it be right to allow a retailer which is trading from a residential property, rather than business premises (such as an office, shop or warehouse)?

Surely it's only the same as someone selling on eBay or the FS/FT section, and can't constitue a deal?

Original Poster

duckmagicuk2;2161750

Would it be right to allow a retailer which is trading from a residential … Would it be right to allow a retailer which is trading from a residential property, rather than business premises (such as an office, shop or warehouse)?Surely it's only the same as someone selling on eBay or the FS/FT section, and can't constitue a deal?



i guess it just getting more confusing then ever.. but also, guess easier to understand.. so far it seems,

No ebay sellers and shops or amazon market place sellers or those that are self-promoting their site or product.
No sellers that appear to stay in a residential area

Even though one of the above may contain a real bargain.

Above like to change on a individual basis based on reasons that may not be shared with members who post the bargains.

Ta..

Banned

duckmagicuk2;2161750

Would it be right to allow a retailer which is trading from a residential … Would it be right to allow a retailer which is trading from a residential property, rather than business premises (such as an office, shop or warehouse)?Surely it's only the same as someone selling on eBay or the FS/FT section, and can't constitue a deal?



why can't someone trading from a residential address be posted? What difference does it make?

My trading address is my home address. I live in a large house and 2 large rooms are currently full of stock. I sell on markets, I sell on ebay and I have a website (this isn't the unlocking ones I'm talking about). I am registered self employed, pay taxes, my home is registered as part business use with the council.

What exactly is the difference between that and me going out and renting a unit for £40 a week to keep my stock in? How does spending that £40 extra make it ok to post any deals that maybe on my site?
If anything trading from home gives people better service, as I'm around to answer emails etc up till about 1am every day.

Note, the above is just an example of me, I'm not asking to post anything from my site on here, and if someone else did & i saw it I would pm a mod and let them know, so it isn't to do with self promotion. But it makes the rules very hard to follow if people don't know what they are.


But if someone is running a small eBay shop then the chances are that … But if someone is running a small eBay shop then the chances are that they won't be able to handle the volume of orders (with regards to processing them and sending them out). This means that you're either likely to be left waiting for a product or worse, without the product at all.



If Digidave has 52000 feedback on ebay then I find it hard to believe he couldn't handle a few extra orders from here!

Original Poster

colinsunderland;2163643

If Digidave has 52000 feedback on ebay then I find it hard to believe he … If Digidave has 52000 feedback on ebay then I find it hard to believe he couldn't handle a few extra orders from here!



Or it could also turn to be a benefit for HKUD members, such as the discout available for members down here at SVP.... just my thought.... but ofcourse, I guess this is based on "individual cases" as emma mentions in a couple of posts above.

But yes, I agree with you too colinsunderland.. Personally, with my varied shopping experience over the net, I have dealt with, in my time, shopping from sellers who have set up their business from their residence. This ofcourse is LEGAL and your registered (VAT registered) business address can be your home address too. I am perhaps more afraid or rather shall we say vary of those sellers who give a P.O. box number as their address.

You also tend to find that those dealing from home tend to have product prices cheaper, ofcourse a simple calculated maths reason being they have no overheads, e.g. premises, bills of council tax in addition to their home taxes etc..etc.. so it could work out to be a much better bargain .. if that's what HKUD would like to offer more off.

The thing is we have to draw a line somewhere. Allowing one or two eBay or Amazon Marketplace sellers for example, would open the flood gates to self promotion and loads of spam, it would also be impossible to moderate.

Right the way back to 2004 when we started we've kept to the same principle and we're proud of keeping the site almost 100% spam free so far.

Unfortunately some people are going to be upset to find their deals removed for those reasons and we apologize for that, but I personally believe it's in the best interest of the whole site to keep to those same guidelines we have in place now.

Banned

rayman;2166018

The thing is we have to draw a line somewhere. Allowing one or two eBay … The thing is we have to draw a line somewhere. Allowing one or two eBay or Amazon Marketplace sellers for example, would open the flood gates to self promotion and loads of spam, it would also be impossible to moderate.



I understand & agree with that, but from what i understand it wasn't a link to an ebay store, it was to a website that doesn't even have a link to ebay on it.
If any website is removed if they have an ebay shop then surely orange/vodafone deals should be removed.
I still don't understand the 'trading from home' bit either?

I have seen Pixmania on Amazon Marketplace, as well as a few other larger traders. Should they all be banned too.

I too, run a business from home, nothing wrong with that, if i have the capacity to do that. I don't (at the moment) sell on ebay or marketplace. Amazon started up in some blokes garage. It would never have taken off if this site had have had it's way

All this business about we google earthed the place and its a residential property is not always right anyway. I personally have seen a lot of legitimate businesses, with full signage, etc, operating out of residential areas/property. From the top they might look like houses, but they have modified their entrances, added receptions and generally made the place business like.

Banned

MoneySavingG;2169114

All this business about we google earthed the place and its a residential … All this business about we google earthed the place and its a residential property is not always right anyway. I personally have seen a lot of legitimate businesses, with full signage, etc, operating out of residential areas/property. From the top they might look like houses, but they have modified their entrances, added receptions and generally made the place business like.



thats a good point
not far from me is a small craft shop, in a residential street, in a converted house. If they have a website would that be banned?

The internet has empowered small businesses oweners to operate from their homes and compete with the big boys, just because they run out of a house/ also sell on ebay does not make them an ebay shop. Their ebay feedback for one shows that they are not just chancing it, they are a Limited company so all set up. What more would they need to do to get the HUKD gods approval? Shut down all other sources of income except their website?

Banned

Titchimp;2174182

What more would they need to do to get the HUKD gods approval?



Become a merchant on an affilate program i would guess.

doughnuty;2174904

Become a merchant on an affilate program i would guess.



LOL

doughnuty;2174904

Become a merchant on an affilate program i would guess.


Like Argos.

Banned

doughnuty;2174904

Become a merchant on an affilate program i would guess.



:-D

Take it from the lack of response from the mods the past couple of days, this discussion is over and no one still really knows what can/can't be posted (in fact are more confused than before)?

Banned

colinsunderland;2175659

:-DTake it from the lack of response from the mods the past couple of … :-DTake it from the lack of response from the mods the past couple of days, this discussion is over and no one still really knows what can/can't be posted (in fact are more confused than before)?



it's basically down to mod descretion, which is fair enough really. Maybe PM a mod before posting a deal from an unknown merchant would be best-let them asess it?

Original Poster

colinsunderland;2175659

:-DTake it from the lack of response from the mods the past couple of … :-DTake it from the lack of response from the mods the past couple of days, this discussion is over and no one still really knows what can/can't be posted (in fact are more confused than before)?



With the staff's silence on this, it seems that members are losing the battle, or more so, its the discretion of individual members of staff that a post may get pulled or not.

So inspite of the "deal anarchy" stating ... "information that is legal and in public domain will not be censored or removed - we will defend that right to the end", this isn't exactly true as exceptions exist based on individual circumstances, residential status, ebay sellers (even though the website may not have a single reference to ebay) and amazon sellers.

Though for Amazon / ebay sellers exceptions exist too, as we have orange/vodafone/pixmania deals,

Wonder what about sellers from play.com, commanly known as playtraders. i guess this shall be removed too.

End of it all, and with the silence of members of staff, it does seem that a problem does exist with the deals that are allowed to be posted / not posted and hope that this shall be addressed in due course if they would like this place to grow even further. But from where a lot of members and I stand, based on the first post of this thread, I am still not much clearer then the 39 posts later.

There hasn't been silence on the subject. You have had 3 moderators appear to voice the opinion of HUKD.
That's more than most threads in the Feedback forum.

I guess that they have said their piece and don't want to get into a protracted discussion that will get no further, as you ignore the points that are made that don't fit in with what you want to convey.
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text