Well we are in general agreement that the promos aren't always good for the board because of the rubbish deals which are posted, but it gets the board some publicity from members who really might be very good. People who were to shy to post before.

We know that there are a lot more not-so-good deals posted, but the '10 karma' is a new thing designed so the rubbish deals don't really count... whereas in all previous promos it worked simply by post count. 10 isn't a hard number to get, but if people only leave karma to those who are truely helpful then it should work - that's why there's a limit to 1 karma per hour. It's so that people use it wisely. I'm sure if promos are run in the future then they'll be tougher and tougher. Last time you simply had to make 10 posts - but this time it's 50 posts and 10 karma, and we can probably take it for 100 posts and 25 karma net time... but that depends if and when a promo is run again. They aren't regular features... just for celebrations.


making this site more popular means it is slowly becoming more MSE-esque

That's the one thing thar I wouldn't like to see. MSE is great for information, but sorting through masses of posts and messy forums takes the edge off it. I hope it doesn't lead to fragmented forums here, but encouraging lurking members to post should be better for everyone, as everyone will know something that all the others don't and it might just be a very special deal. That would make it worth sorting through some of the lesser value posts.

People have to post to get the reach the 50, not to get the karma [as ducky says], but the karma is seperate from that and if given where it's due, should be very fair [I think].

That is actually what I was trying to say. If karma is given where it is truely deserved then the promo will work well.

Original Poster

Part of me still feels though that people who are only posting to get the free gift shouldn't really be posting. Maybe it's human nature.

How about a ranking system, like slashdot or digg, where users can rank, out of 10, how useful a post is. Posts that get ranked higher move to the top, posts that get ranked lower move down.

Or even, just list the average rank next to the post - and in user settings, you can filter out posts below certain ranks.

i.e. if you're really into the board, you see all posts, but if you only have a few minutes to check each day, you filter it for posts only ranked 7 or better.

TBH, I think that the whole idea of Karmuneration (that's for Karma and remuneration) is a bit weird. That's why we see posts like "how can I get Karma?" or similar or (even worse) board is being flooded by rubbish 'deals'.
As to better system... I am not really sure. Whatever system will be introduced it will be still abused by someone. But for start, how about introducing Karma Police?
If there are posts like "Can I have Karma, please?" and then some 'bleeding-heart' gives Karma to this person, then mods should delete initial request, issue warnings (via PM) and reset Karma to zero to the offender. One or two cases like that and order will be restored.

I agree, karma shouldn't need to be asked for and I think moderators should do just that. But also, giving karma to new posters, with reasonably good deals, can give them confidence to post more deals and hopefully even better ones

I don't think there should be too much trouble though.

In the past we did promos where you just had to post a certain amount - and at the time you could still join in if you were a brand new member joining half-way through (like I joined in Feb last year to get the USB Pen Drive!).

With this, and the previous one, we're only letting people who are here anyway get these... people who've already shown an interest in HUKD. There won't be any hit-and-runners who come, post, get the voucher and leave. We're really just warning the current users.

Great thread, keep it coming everyone. I agree with every point brought up so far so please don't hesitate to keep going on this topic. There are things afoot to address several of these issues but I need more of this kind of feedback to build a system that will scale (better than now but not perfect). As the board keeps going different problems come up that weren't an issue before so it's good to discuss how to handle them.

Personally I think the volume is good...obviously from an economic standpoint for myself but also because the more eyes and ears we have on the streets the more deals that will be dug up. The trick is how to handle this information so that it is useful, and how to make sure that when one mans junk is another's treasure how do we each find the treasure withough being turned off by the junk.

The promos are always not the best time, however what I hope is that the members who contribute are rewarded but also that some lurkers are encouraged to jump up and get involved. After the promo ends we'll see people drift away who only posted to get something, but there will also be some people who "stick" and that's invaluable for all of us.

Karma. It's really crude right now and karma begging turns me off. The point of karma is that asking for it shouldn't get you any...karma should "flow" naturally when people contribute or make a good post. In the long run that is how it works and you can see those who really contribute do have good karma ratings...but short term it can get really skewed.

Keep the feedback coming guys, I know some of you have experience with larger communities and organic mod systems like digg/slashdot/kuro5hin etc so hopefully you have ideas as well as criticism of those to pass on. That's the kind of system I see us moving towards...

This may be relevant to the OP but I have been posting on the Ebays P&P board for over three years now. I 'found' this site from a friend on the Ebay board. This is a great board, friendly and easy going.
The idea of Karma seems like a good one but like everything it can be abused. I have not seen any sign of abuse but I'm pretty new. I do know who most of the regs are and the type of post they post. They all contribute in their own ways with their own 'specialty' topics.
I give Karma without telling that person depending on how helpful I found their post. I don't see the point in saying "I have given you Karma" etc.

Original Poster

Dino, there are regulars here who don't post as often as the big few, (e.g. duckmagic, miket, slinks) who all tend to me mods anyway.

How about this for a suggestion - instead of karma, you get "click through points" - i.e. every time someone clicks the link to take you to the deal, you earn a point. In effect, it's like karma, only the karma-giver doesn't have to think. i.e. if you think the deal is good/interesting enough, you will click through.

Like all things, it's open to abuse - e.g. people posting "mysterious" deals so people click through out of interest. it also misses all the offline deals...

'Click through points' seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Rpoints has a ratings system... but I believe that is more likely to be abused tha karma.

Original Poster

OK - new great idea. I call it the self-moderating karma system.

So, the idea is, ONLY people with say, 10 karma already can give karma.

So, people with 10 karma today are those people who do spend time and effort to the board. These tend to be deal hunters, and know what's good and what's not. Only these people are allowed to give karma.

But what about the newbies you say? Well, once they have received 10 karma, then they can give it out too! It's perfect. It stops people randomly giving out karma for free. It means karma beggars will go unnoticed, as the only people who can give karma will have earnt it themselves, so they know not to give to beggars. It stops new people giving karma to each other just to build up their own karma. And it also means that karma actually means something, as the people giving the karma will be seasoned deal hunters (having received 10 karma themselves!)

What do you think?

Andi, you say that you don't like karma beggars yet in your signiture you ask people to karma you.

Funny, I've had similar thoughts in the past.

I think that's a good idea andi, but I think the karma level needs to be a little higher than 10...

lol at johnnymeldrum

Original Poster

What signature?

bringing it back to the original topic (no offence intended, i don't want to disturb you guys and your karma!) but does anyone think the sim card deals should be going in the freebies section? as they are free...and everyone has copious amounts of them now anyway, and they are blocking up the forums first page (which might i add has a better and healthier range of deals that i have seen since i started using the forum!) also i think i mentioned about greater use of subsectioning, particularly 'mobiles' and 'tech' deals as these seem to all be quite similar and specific (most people must have the deals by now, or at least they know where to get free line rental and quidco cashback from...keeping them in such a prominent position is just satisfying the lazy people who dont contribute to make the forum good) sorry about all my brackets...and also i think ive posted this post already but ive lost where i put it and i may have even posted it in a dream.. haha

Well o2 ones shouldn't go in the hot deals forum any more because it's pretty much a continuous offer now.

It does depend on the sim offer as to where it goes because some are pretty much permanent and then others are quite rare give-aways.

As for sub-forums I still really do not think we need them. Honestly Think of the Hot Deals forum more like a stock ticker...you may not be interested in everything but seeing everything in one spot means you get an idea of the "deal environment" as well as spotting deals you may not have been looking for otherwise.

Kommunist - sooner than you may think and later than I hope probably As with most things!

If you haven't already seen Digg. it's a community news site, where news that is submitted by users is 'dugg' by others who like it (it even has a deals section, though this is heavily US-biased). When a story receives enough diggs it is promoted first to the section front page, than to the site front page. This might be a nice system for HUKD to look at using.

Of course, the Digg site doesn't make available its code, but there is a system very similar to it: Pligg. You can see a site that uses this here.

This would mean that good and useful deals are promoted by people who find them good or useful - seeing your story on the front page would probably be better than karma. http://www.hotukdeals.com/modules/PNphpBB2/images/posticons/image_7.gif

I've moved your post into here mr.velvet as I think it fits well.

The Digg system isn't quite sophisticated enough to handle what we would need it to do (Digg is actually quite crude all things considered). I think the slashdot/kuro5hin model is a little closer to what we need. As I hinted above to Kommunist this is in the works and has been for a while. I can't give a firm date on this but hopefully it will be along soon...

Ah, I wondered where it had disappeared to.

(Digg is actually quite crude all things considered).

Don't say that on Digg.

Fair enough, though I do like the voting model. Also, some way to tag posts might be nice - so instead of having subsections you simply look at the tags that are relevent.

Well Digg really just does popularity and that's it (as far as I know). I think the concept of evaluating opinions is much more useful on top of popularity. For example if a member who has posted many highly rated deals approves of a new deal that should have more of an influence than a member that has never posted deals or has posted poor deals. That kind of dynamic rating will be really useful for deals which are really formed from the opinion of the masses
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