150 Comments

Artemis

Does keeping in place a ridiculously slanted temperature system where a … Does keeping in place a ridiculously slanted temperature system where a couple of moderators can bump any deal to the front page by themselves because their votes count many times a normal users count as bias?What about bugging people who vote cold on something but never retroactively bugging all the people who voted hot even after a deal has been proven to be rubbish?After all the more deals look hot the more things get bought through this site and the more money it makes. Sounds like a prime opportunity for bias to creep in.




Great point in regards to temp on votes.

I voted a vodafone pay and go deal cold, two in fact.

I got told if I keep voting cold on 'great' deals would get my voting power taken away:whistling:

So I don't like vodafone branding so what?

If you want people to justify cold votes make it compulsory then nobody can complain about not leaving reasons:thumbsup:

Don't think members get asked to justify hot votes? And threats of taking away voting power for not giving reasons for voting hot.:giggle:

Ridiculous.

Moral to the story is don't vote a mods deal cold they don't like it :giggle: and they know it's you:thumbsup:

Seems I was wrong:-

NOT true. Moderators do not 'bump' posts.



rayman

Yes we do bump threads for different reasons.



Maybe I misread flake99's post or I'm just naive.

col

Moral to the story is don't vote a mods deal cold they don't like it … Moral to the story is don't vote a mods deal cold they don't like it :giggle:


Don't think so, I'll vote as I see fit.:-D
Although, I do think a reason could be useful for the OP and other members, but I don't always give one.
I'm fed up of all the Wii, PS3 and Xbox consoles and games posts, if I could be bothered I'd vote all of them cold, no matter who posted them and not give a reason.

dinosteveus

Don't think so, I'll vote as I see fit.:-D Although, I do think a reason … Don't think so, I'll vote as I see fit.:-D Although, I do think a reason could be useful for the OP and other members, but I don't always give one.I'm fed up of all the Wii, PS3 and Xbox consoles and games posts, if I could be bothered I'd vote all of them cold, no matter who posted them and not give a reason.



Unless it's compulsory either way I don't see the problem.

I don't see my local Mp's telling me I have to justify my vote or it won't count:giggle:

Or if it's not for the Labour Party it won't count either:-D

am enjoying this debate. I'll vote it hot!

Does keeping in place a ridiculously slanted temperature system where a … Does keeping in place a ridiculously slanted temperature system where a couple of moderators can bump any deal to the front page by themselves because their votes count many times a normal users count as bias?



Mods have no special voting power. Sorry. I've said it before. I'll say it again. There are loads of members with the same voting power as mods because they have posted their own hot deals on here.

After all the more deals look hot the more things get bought through this … After all the more deals look hot the more things get bought through this site and the more money it makes. Sounds like a prime opportunity for bias to creep in.



The temperature threshold is dynamic and relative. Deals are only hot if they are hotter than average. The front page threshold is dynamic and when we first started maybe it only took 10 degrees to be hot - now that many more people are voting and have more power it takes a higher temp to hit the front page.

I know everyone loves a conspiracy but unfortunately we don't have one here and I know members who have their eyes and ears open realise that. As mentioned above by myself if you have any questions or see anything that you believe may be questionable please let me know so I can either explain what is happening or look into adjusting the system.

col

Great point in regards to temp on votes.I voted a vodafone pay and go … Great point in regards to temp on votes.I voted a vodafone pay and go deal cold, two in fact.I got told if I keep voting cold on 'great' deals would get my voting power taken away:whistling: So I don't like vodafone branding so what? If you want people to justify cold votes make it compulsory then nobody can complain about not leaving reasons:thumbsup: Don't think members get asked to justify hot votes? And threats of taking away voting power for not giving reasons for voting hot.:giggle: Ridiculous.



Are you giving the complete picture col ?? :roll:

We ask members who repeatedly vote cold to 'leave a reason while cold voting'. Failing so, the last resort will be removing voting power. Just to clarify again... hot or cold is your choice & no one will interfere. But please do leave a reason when voting cold, especially on 'good' deals.

edi

But please do leave a reason when voting cold, especially on 'good' deals.



coming to this debate late, so this point may have been made before ...

but what is a 'good' deal? Is it 'good' deal if it is a good price for a poor product? People seem to get most annoyed if the price is good but people vote cold because they do not rate the product itself. In cases like this I think it is useful to clarify a cold vote to indicate its cold not because of the price, but because of the product.

I'm fed up of all the Wii, PS3 and Xbox consoles and games posts, if I … I'm fed up of all the Wii, PS3 and Xbox consoles and games posts, if I could be bothered I'd vote all of them cold, no matter who posted them and not give a reason.



One man's treasure is another man's junk!

I wonder if it is possible to produce stats on the number of "Wii's in stock - Quick" deals, "PS3 deals" and "xbox 360 bundles" posts - it would be nice if frequently repeating product deals could be collected together in the same place somehow.

But please do leave a reason when voting cold, especially on 'good' … But please do leave a reason when voting cold, especially on 'good' deals


Your definition of a 'Hot' deal and mine are totally different.

So your not allowed to vote cold on a 'good' deal?

I decided it wasn't a good deal for me by voting cold:? Or does a mod have to tell me what is or isn't 'good'??

Like I said I voted two vodafone deals cold which is my right as I see fit unless Im wrong.

I have voted things hot several times today but never justified why:?

dinosteveus

Your definition of a 'Hot' deal and mine are totally different.



Fine.... :thumbsup:

Voting cold and leaving a reason is what we expect ;-)

col

Like I said I voted two vodafone deals cold which is my right as I see … Like I said I voted two vodafone deals cold which is my right as I see fit unless Im wrong.



Absolutely... its your right :thumbsup:. Leave a reason when you vote cold.

Voting has to be fair on all grounds ;-)

dinosteveus

Your definition of a 'Hot' deal and mine are totally different.



That is the biggest problem - there is no "official" definition on how to judge a deal, so people use their own rules which are not consistent amoung all users.

Like I said I voted two vodafone deals cold which is my right as I see … Like I said I voted two vodafone deals cold which is my right as I see fit unless Im wrong.



As said above it is fine to vote what you want. But I'm sure you can see in the case where you vote a deal cold because you don't like vodafone it is very misleading to a member who reads the thread and does like vodafone or doesn't care. They see a cold temp and think the deal must be poor, however it is cold simply because you don't like vodafone.

In this case I would recommend not voting anyway as it's just your personal preference and nothing to do with the deal. If you really want to vote anyway then leaving a comment will let other users know why it was voted cold. We're all here to help each other so anything we can do to help find a deal or point out a bad deal is help. That's the crux of it.

Admin

As said above it is fine to vote what you want. But I'm sure you can see … As said above it is fine to vote what you want. But I'm sure you can see in the case where you vote a deal cold because you don't like vodafone it is very misleading to a member who reads the thread and does like vodafone or doesn't care. They see a cold temp and think the deal must be poor, however it is cold simply because you don't like vodafone.In this case I would recommend not voting anyway as it's just your personal preference and nothing to do with the deal. If you really want to vote anyway then leaving a comment will let other users know why it was voted cold. We're all here to help each other so anything we can do to help find a deal or point out a bad deal is help. That's the crux of it.



I agree leaving a comment will help people but unless it's compulsory on all voting it's not going to done 100% or anywhere near it.

I personally feel vodafone cripple handsets with their own versions of software and for me this is a crucial part of whether its a good deal or not so I vote accordingly.

This aside the price may be A+:)

Yeah, as Admin says and I have mentioned a million or so times in the past...

If you don't like a deal, company or product then DON'T VOTE COLD. Simply don't vote!! No interest in the item isn't a reason to vote cold and can be misleading to people who want that product as they may thing it's a poor price.

Good reasons to vote cold are...
1) Low-quality product. e.g. if you have a phone and after reading reviews you know its firmware is extremely buggy or they easily fall to bits then you may want to vote cold and explain this.
2) Poor retailer. Maybe they take weeks to deliver, you've repeatedly had poor customer service or they have security flaws. Again, explain this.
3) A superior product is available at little extra cost or this one at a lower price. Again, this needs explaining, preferably with a link to the deal or retailer's page, and maybe even post the deal if it's not been here before.

Again... if you aren't interested then just leave it alone!!

You shouldn't be voting things cold because you don't want that type of product on the front page... remember that if the front page does speed up then the temperature threshold will eventually increase to suit.

col

I personally feel vodafone cripple handsets with their own versions of … I personally feel vodafone cripple handsets with their own versions of software and for me this is a crucial part of whether its a good deal or not so I vote accordingly. This aside the price may be A+:)



This is what I don't agree with. If the price is right, then I don't mind a bit of branding. If you are picky and don't like branding then just don't buy it, but if I'm a regular member who doesn't care about that branding and see that it has a negative temperature then I might think that the price is bad or that the firm isn't reliable...

duckmagicuk2

Again... if you aren't interested then just leave it alone!!.



Mobile phone deals do interest me

Do you think all hot votes are from people who are interested in the product? :?

By listing criteria for voting cold you may as well remove the option altogether IMO

Well they're the criteria I work on and I think it's fair to work on... but as always, it's upto you.

col

By listing criteria for voting cold you may as well remove the option … By listing criteria for voting cold you may as well remove the option altogether IMO



I don't understand that logic.:? Surely knowing the criteria by which a deal is being judged makes it clearer why a deal is 'cold' or 'hot'?

I think everything is fine as in the end, the majority voting technique will over-rule the odd ones people disagree with, leaving the end temperature to be valid.

IMO I think its been looked into 'too much.'

Have a nice day

erics

I don't understand that logic.:? Surely knowing the criteria by which a … I don't understand that logic.:? Surely knowing the criteria by which a deal is being judged makes it clearer why a deal is 'cold' or 'hot'?



Cos if there are rules for this and that just to vote a deal cold I would personally not bother voting at all. Again we don't have to justify why something may be voted hot.

From experience I have had deals go down in temp with no comment.
I believe most people vote cold without saying a word and unless comments are compulsory nothing you can do about it.

Deal4Me

I think everything is fine as in the end, the majority voting technique … I think everything is fine as in the end, the majority voting technique will over-rule the odd ones people disagree with, leaving the end temperature to be valid.IMO I think its been looked into 'too much.'Have a nice day



It would be valid if everybody had a vote equal to ONE! :w00t:

I know what a radical strange idea:roll:

col

From experience I have had deals go down in temp with no comment.



And didn't you feel curious as to why?

emmajk42

And didn't you feel curious as to why?



At first I did wonder but now I don't expect any different.

Even people that may have bigger voting powers don't always leave comments when cold voting my past deals and thats ok cos there is no criteria only a recommendation

Comments are helpful, but its being suggested they are compulsory but they are not in the current system as I see it.

Original Poster

Admin

Mods have no special voting power. Sorry. I've said it before. I'll say … Mods have no special voting power. Sorry. I've said it before. I'll say it again. There are loads of members with the same voting power as mods because they have posted their own hot deals on here.



That doesn't answer my point at all. You asked about bias, I see no reason why these other random people who also have big voting power would have any particular bias whereas it is quite clear that there is a clear reason for moderators to have some.

There doesn't seem to be any real reason for some to have a better voting power than others yet it is grimly hung on to. You asked to be informed if anything looked like it was biased, so I informed you that this most certainly does.

col

Comments are helpful, but its being suggested they are compulsory but … Comments are helpful, but its being suggested they are compulsory but they are not in the current system as I see it.



No they are not cumpolsory, but they are really helpful. I have asked a few times as I have no idea why people have voted cold, and this prompts people to explain some reasons, and prompts a good discussion to the merits of the deal.

Original Poster

edi

Are you giving the complete picture col ?? :roll: We ask members who … Are you giving the complete picture col ?? :roll: We ask members who repeatedly vote cold to 'leave a reason while cold voting'. Failing so, the last resort will be removing voting power. Just to clarify again... hot or cold is your choice & no one will interfere. But please do leave a reason when voting cold, especially on 'good' deals.



"Especially on 'good' deals"?

Should we all pm you in advance to make sure we haven't accidentally cold voted a deal that you consider good?

col

It would be valid if everybody had a vote equal to ONE! :w00t: I know … It would be valid if everybody had a vote equal to ONE! :w00t: I know what a radical strange idea:roll:



I see your point.


All in all, I think its looked into way too much!

At the end of the day, if the user thinks its a good deal the user will buy it regardless of temperature

Original Poster

emmajk42

No they are not cumpolsory, but they are really helpful. I have asked a … No they are not cumpolsory, but they are really helpful. I have asked a few times as I have no idea why people have voted cold, and this prompts people to explain some reasons, and prompts a good discussion to the merits of the deal.



If they aren't compulsory then why would someone be threatened with voting removal if they didn't conform?

Artemis

That doesn't answer my point at all. You asked about bias, I see no … That doesn't answer my point at all. You asked about bias, I see no reason why these other random people who also have big voting power would have any particular bias whereas it is quite clear that there is a clear reason for moderators to have some.There doesn't seem to be any real reason for some to have a better voting power than others yet it is grimly hung on to. You asked to be informed if anything looked like it was biased, so I informed you that this most certainly does.



Apparently people with more voting power have better informed opinions about what represents a 'good' deal

I think I have quite a high voting power but I would swap it in favour of a system where everyone has a 1 degree vote.

Seems only way people can really judge a deal imo without bias.

Deal4Me

I see your point.All in all, I think its looked into way too much!At the … I see your point.All in all, I think its looked into way too much!At the end of the day, if the user thinks its a good deal the user will buy it regardless of temperature



That is true also which questions why temp voting exists other than for novelty value. But if it is only for novelty value why have a system that is biased towards certain individuals? Surely this is making it seem more important than it actually is :?

Afaik (which is not a lot) temp is there to qualify for the front page.

But if a user was looking for a seriously good deal, and sees the system negatively, he/she would use their common sense and look in the forum anyway.

Deal4Me

Afaik (which is not a lot) temp is there to qualify for the front page. … Afaik (which is not a lot) temp is there to qualify for the front page. But if a user was looking for a seriously good deal, and sees the system negatively, he/she would use their common sense and look in the forum anyway.



Doesn't answer why temp needs to be biased towards certain individuals with more influence

col

Doesn't answer why temp needs to be biased towards certain individuals … Doesn't answer why temp needs to be biased towards certain individuals with more influence



Their higher level of influence has come from them posting deals which have been voted hot. That seems fair to me.

Original Poster

col

Apparently people with more voting power have better informed opinions … Apparently people with more voting power have better informed opinions about what represents a 'good' deal I think I have quite a high voting power but I would swap it in favour of a system where everyone has a 1 degree vote. Seems only way people can really judge a deal imo without bias.



I agree. I have yet to hear a reason for the current system beyond 'that's how it is'. There's no such thing as being more able to see whether something is a good deal. It's not a learnable skill. If I trawl find-dvd.co.uk (Or just enable their email alert system for all the popular titles) and consistently stick up titles that are on sale at different outlets my voting power would be maximum fairly shortly for no real effort, and certainly no skill, yet I would then be able to seriously influence whether or a not a deal was hot enough to reach the front page - regardless of whether the deal was dvds or oven gloves.

Original Poster

emmajk42

Their higher level of influence has come from them posting deals which … Their higher level of influence has come from them posting deals which have been voted hot. That seems fair to me.



In what way is that fair? How would having posted 12 good deals on computer systems make someone a better judge of whether or not a 4 star cruise to belize for £850 is a good deal?

col

Doesn't answer why temp needs to be biased towards certain individuals … Doesn't answer why temp needs to be biased towards certain individuals with more influence





O right I see what you are arguing against now. I havn't read this thread, just a few comments earlier! It doesn't 'NEED' to be biased, its the way the forum runs and we should just accept this - thats the way I see it anyway, its a friendly forum and an higher 'valued' opinion does not intend to do any harm.

This I see Emma has answered. It just reflects how 'involved' the user is which is fair in Emma's terms.

However this doesn't really affect me, as I'm the type of user who'd buy if I thought a deal was good. It wouldn't bother me if someone who has high voting power voted it cold or not, thats just their opinion. Although their opinion is more 'valued' :thinking: ? -

- What matters is your own opinion - you like, you buy.

And I think its as simple as that in the end! :thumbsup:

emmajk42

Their higher level of influence has come from them posting deals which … Their higher level of influence has come from them posting deals which have been voted hot. That seems fair to me.



Well I don't believe its fair system at all and I am speaking as somebody with about 9 degrees voting power

I have a degree maybe my political vote should be worth more than my mother's:giggle:
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