89 Comments

Personal Information would include: Address, name, phone number, email … Personal Information would include: Address, name, phone number, email any other information that would suggest authenticity



Scammers could use anyones details which are freely available if you look

Banned

but that would mean you have an account on here and then the line "you do not have an account to cancel" wouldnt be able to be used

On a serious note, if people continued to use the guidelines shown there wouldnt really be need for anything else

sassie;5277576

but that would mean you have an account on here and then the line "you do … but that would mean you have an account on here and then the line "you do not have an account to cancel" wouldnt be able to be usedOn a serious note, if people continued to use the guidelines shown there wouldnt really be need for anything else



Exactly...some people see a bargain and the idiot gene kicks in :roll:

sassie;5277576

but that would mean you have an account on here and then the line "you do … but that would mean you have an account on here and then the line "you do not have an account to cancel" wouldnt be able to be usedOn a serious note, if people continued to use the guidelines shown there wouldnt really be need for anything else



+1

It's easy to use any details freely available, and would only add another layer of complexity to the FS/FT forum. The rules and guidlines are sufficient.

I agree with the personal information being given when you sign up and agree to the FS/FT agreement.

I think people should avoid sales that the person has promised pictures and then none show up, or ebay pictures. I understand that sometimes everyone has a problem with thier camera but if it seems to be too good to be true deal then it normally is!

I think it would be a good idea for most 'newbies' on here just starting to sell, to send out 1st to trusted memebers with new feedback. I know we all need to start somewhere but this would build feedback and therefore confidence on here. I personally wouldn'y buy from someone with no or little feedback who wouldn't send 1st and I know there are many other people on here who are now the same.

Nice thread Adam :thumbsup:

choc1969;5277573

Scammers could use anyones details which are freely available if you look



Didn't think of that!

Original Poster

choc1969;5277573

Scammers could use anyones details which are freely available if you look



That is also true, but you have 192.com which was suggested by ascottishbloke, if they wanted to use suspect details then on submission, this information could be locked out (Not Visible, suggested when you sign up so they can't write it down, would catch a few maybe). Only way to adjust this information say you move house would be to report an address change. Maybe a little far but better. Plus having a lot of information on signup may deter them from signing up, plus people who just smash information in would be thrown out, who also are people you don't want trading. I think :?

ctuk;5277189

I'd change the FS rules to allow bulk selling, if it cost less for people … I'd change the FS rules to allow bulk selling, if it cost less for people to buy from a user on here than it would be in the shops, then why stop it. If the bulk seller was selling something more expensive than elsewhere, nobody would buy it.


Maybe limit it to 1 open FS Thread per user to avoid spam / clutter

Banned

for any trade on here all should be comfortable that all guidelines hve been followed, if not sure i suggested once a deal has been agree to trading through ebay, but apparently this is a no no, cant see why not but there you go

Adam2050;5277630

That is also true, but you have 192.com which was suggested by … That is also true, but you have 192.com which was suggested by ascottishbloke, if they wanted to use suspect details then on submission, this information could be locked out (not Visible, not suggested when you sign up so they can't write it down, would catch a few maybe). Only way to adjust this information say you move house would be to report an address change. Maybe a little far but better. Plus having a lot of information on signup may deter them from signing up, plus people who just smash information in would be thrown out, who also are people you don't want trading. I think :?



verifying this information would mean a lot of administration and I don't believe HUKD want to spend any more of the money we make for them :whistling:

Original Poster

choc1969;5277654

verifying this information would mean a lot of administration and I don't … verifying this information would mean a lot of administration and I don't believe HUKD want to spend any more of the money we make for them :whistling:



I don't feel it would. They don't have to touch the information unless they feel they need to, as it would just be added to the database, if the account in question is suspect and needs to be reviewed they can pull up the information and make a judgement based on that. There is plus factor to having a lot of information and a minus. They may have to change addresses, a few a week.

Banned

also think you should only be alowed a few live threads, this would help in people knowing you have to lock a thread, would also stop some having 15 live threads then asking for them to be locked in one go and then opening another 15 in one go, meaning 30 bumped threads from the same person, and for a certain few members this is happening alot, maybe not 30, but a fair few and alot of the time

Get tired oh hearing people state:

'don't know how to upload a pic'
'my camera is pretty crap'
'new to this'

if you have a computer or laptop and can sign in to the darn thing, you must have a bean of sense to learn

a lot of newbies have just cut and paste their fs/t stuff from other forums which I find easy to trace but some people on here don't seem to bother

scammers delight and when you try to help everyone gets offended.....wtf

Adam2050;5277671

I don't feel it would. They don't have to touch the information unless … I don't feel it would. They don't have to touch the information unless they feel they need to, as it would just be added to the database, if the account in question is suspect and needs to be reviewed they can pull up the information and make a judgement based on that. There is plus factor to having a lot of information and a minus. They may have to change addresses, a few a week.



after the horse has bolted :whistling:

Original Poster

sassie;5277673

also think you should only be alowed a few live threads, this would help … also think you should only be alowed a few live threads, this would help in people knowing you have to lock a thread, would also stop some having 15 live threads then asking for them to be locked in one go and then opening another 15 in one go, meaning 30 bumped threads from the same person, and for a certain few members this is happening alot, maybe not 30, but a fair few and alot of the time



Agree with that Sassie, I don't agree with having only one thread, as some genuine people on here do trade in a few threads as its just easier to manage for themselves.

I do think the profile page needs changing to include expired FS/FT threads, as I know some people have been caught out on not locking threads down in the change over. While it can be seen as unfair they still have the responsibility of locking there own threads. This would just eliminate the error a little.

Original Poster

choc1969;5277688

Get tired oh hearing people state:'don't know how to upload a pic''my … Get tired oh hearing people state:'don't know how to upload a pic''my camera is pretty crap''new to this'if you have a computer or laptop and can sign in to the darn thing, you must have a bean of sense to learn a lot of newbies have just cut and paste their fs/t stuff from other forums which I find easy to trace but some people on here don't seem to botherscammers delight and when you try to help everyone gets offended.....wtf



Yeh I've seen that happen to you before Choc but I wouldn't let that cocern you just do what you think is right on that, my opinnion. I like it when people point stuff out.

Maybe the FS/FT guildelines need adjusting to include a nice picture guide of how the best layout would be, and what not to include, or what would be frowned apon.

choc1969;5277698

after the horse has bolted :whistling:



That again is a valid point, but its more of deterent then a solution to the problem, for the members that are valid there is nothing to really deal with. For people who repeatly scam, and for users that have a bad trade the information would be still useful.

I don't see the deterrent aspect if the details are not going to be checked on signup. And i'll say it yet again, Data Protection Act.

Adam2050;5277753

Yeh I've seen that happen to you before Choc but I wouldn't let that … Yeh I've seen that happen to you before Choc but I wouldn't let that cocern you just do what you think is right on that, my opinnion. I like it when people point stuff out.Maybe the FS/FT guildelines need adjusting to include a nice picture guide of how the best layout would be, and what not to include, or what would be frowned apon. That again is a valid point, but its more of deterent then a solution to the problem, for the members that are valid there is nothing to really deal with. For people who repeatly scam, and for users that have a bad trade the information would be still useful.



how is dud info useful ? the prob with scammers, they know how to get a roaming ip address so can sign up multiple times, thats why we have lots of multis on here.....easy to spot some as just like any language, you say/write things in a specific way

Ebay haven't solved it and I doubt if HUKD will master it......no offence ADMIN lol

Original Poster

Shengis;5277826

I don't see the deterrent aspect if the details are not going to be … I don't see the deterrent aspect if the details are not going to be checked on signup. And i'll say it yet again, Data Protection Act.



What parts of the data protection act are you refering to Shengis?

Other forums cope with this fine.

Adam2050;5277863

What parts of the data protection act are you refering to Shengis?Other … What parts of the data protection act are you refering to Shengis?Other forums cope with this fine.



Personally identifiable data : Data referring to a living individual. It's the whole basis of the DPA. What other forums btw? I'll take a look if you post links:thumbsup:

Banned

Adam2050;5277863

What parts of the data protection act are you refering to Shengis?Other … What parts of the data protection act are you refering to Shengis?Other forums cope with this fine.



apparently by signing up and giving our details we are making an account, so all held information then comes under the data protection, well i think thats it anyway

sassie;5277910

apparently by signing up and giving our details we are making an account, … apparently by signing up and giving our details we are making an account, so all held information then comes under the data protection, well i think thats it anyway



And that as I see it is why Admin is so adamant that nobody on here actually has an account, only a login and password :lol:

Banned

fs rules need re writing as in bulletts rather than a 3000 word essay, who the hell is going to bother keep reading that lot every time they wanna list something

Original Poster

Shengis;5277930

And that as I see it is why Admin is so adamant that nobody on here … And that as I see it is why Admin is so adamant that nobody on here actually has an account, only a login and password :lol:



Ahh right so you mean we would need to sign up, and they would need to take legal action themselves?

I was talking about AVforums.

Banned

last thing implemeted was that the fs 1st post became un editable, this was done to stop people editing their prices, removing things etc,etc it was seen as a good thing, now people use the second post instead and leave 1st post blank, so yes its great to discuss things that will help and make the boards better but as you will see there is a way round everything

Adam2050;5277967

Ahh right so you mean we would need to sign up, and they would need to … Ahh right so you mean we would need to sign up, and they would need to take legal action themselves?I was talking about AVforums.



Well you would have to pursue the matter yourself but if people registered their details, the bottom line is Admin wouldn't be able to release those details to you (legally), only to the person they relate to. Unless you had a court order to obtain said details of course. A good example of a law that was passed to protect but hinders as much as it helps.

Original Poster

Shengis;5278016

Well you would have to pursue the matter yourself but if people … Well you would have to pursue the matter yourself but if people registered their details, the bottom line is Admin wouldn't be able to release those details to you (legally), only to the person they relate to. Unless you had a court order to obtain said details of course. A good example of a law that was passed to protect but hinders as much as it helps.



Ah okay Shengis, but they would be able to use the information themselves, as they would have rights to the information as agreed on signup. Suppose it would leave all the judgement back on the admins. Anyway just a suggestion.

I do think the FS/FT rules need an overall Sassie, but I can't see the progression ain't been here long, I would of locked that thread myself to stop all the clutter in on the rules updated, should be a clear progression down the pages.

How about meaningful titles prefixed FS, FT, WTD etc, in a lot of cases just the item description is put so you have to open the thread to see whether they want to buy or sell

Don't get me wrong Adam, I agree with you 'in principle', but I just don't see how it could be made workable within the law

Original Poster

Shengis;5278104

Don't get me wrong Adam, I agree with you 'in principle', but I just … Don't get me wrong Adam, I agree with you 'in principle', but I just don't see how it could be made workable within the law



Didn't think you weren't:thumbsup: I see you just trying to be constructive.

I don't know either way something the admining team would need to answer.

sassie;5277645

for any trade on here all should be comfortable that all guidelines hve … for any trade on here all should be comfortable that all guidelines hve been followed, if not sure i suggested once a deal has been agree to trading through ebay, but apparently this is a no no, cant see why not but there you go



Did you actually get a definitive answer on this? from memoryy I thought they hummed and hawed before finally just ignoring the thread.

not to dredge this back up but I didn't see any problem whatsoever with this.

Banned

ants97;5278908

Did you actually get a definitive answer on this? from memoryy I thought … Did you actually get a definitive answer on this? from memoryy I thought they hummed and hawed before finally just ignoring the thread. not to dredge this back up but I didn't see any problem whatsoever with this.



thats as far as it got, same as any suggestion on here really

i think the site does enough for the fs/ft section, theres not much they can do more.

without wanting to be a party pooper,how many times has this been discussed before with nothing ever happening?

i think that when another member points out flaws or gives a heads up in a fs/ft thread ie possible scam should be looked at, but instead they are always moaned at, happened to me before and got my posts deleted, turns out i was right and the buyer got scammed!

Also should be a rule for all no matter your "status" or feedback a picture with username and date must be in the first post imho.

Original Poster

ilovepink;5287120

i think that when another member points out flaws or gives a heads up in … i think that when another member points out flaws or gives a heads up in a fs/ft thread ie possible scam should be looked at, but instead they are always moaned at, happened to me before and got my posts deleted, turns out i was right and the buyer got scammed!Also should be a rule for all no matter your "status" or feedback a picture with username and date must be in the first post imho.



I tend to agree with both statements, called thread spoiling sometimes, but its because you knew that guy was a scammer. Tell tale signs.

I think thats probably a good thing nothing negative can come from the second point. As even big accounts can be hacked etc, or miss used. (again tell tale signs)

sorry too tired to read whole thread but one suggestion i thought of (apols if its been stated) but a fs/ft post should not be allowed unless it includes location (just town or area), scammers don't like collection.

The pictures one is a very good one, I see a respected member on here the other day refusing to take pictures with his user name because his feedback was good. He took pictures but refused point blank to take some with his username. The person interested in his items was also a respected member. That should result in a instant closure of the thread.

The Mods are very strict on bumping now yet every time they close a thread they bump it to the top of the page. That means if you've just posted an item for sale whilst a mod is on a thread closing spree your thread will soon be on the second or third page because of all the threads the mods have bumped up. I can't see the point in bumping a thread up to just to say "thread closed @ ops request" as surely the OP knows that. I think it would be much better if the mod instead closes the thread and then edits the first post to say it that way it saves a pointless bump. I can understand the mods bump when they issue an infraction or whatever as it serves as a warning to other members.

I think the items but be in your possession rule is a little flawed. When it comes to selling tickets they're usually not sent out until a week in advance so that only gives you a few days before the event to sell them here. In the case of tickets you should be able to sell them prior to receiving them. Perhaps the rules can be changed so that you can agree a sale for tickets in advance of receiving them but only take payment once they're in your possesion.

Every negative feedback should be reviewed by a moderator. This will ensure the system is not abused and if there is a serious problem with a transaction a mod can act on it (a trading ban for example) pretty quickly. If not a moderator perhaps a few more "forum helpers" that are able to look over them and direct any problems to a real mod.

Not leaving feedback should result in a infraction. The amount of times i've seen someone saying they've been conned as they've been waiting months for their item yet when you look at the sellers feedback there is no mention. That means because of the buyer not leaving FB the seller has been able to continue trading for months without people having a warning about what he has done. Perhaps FB must be left within 14 days of agreeing a trade.

The rule stating items remain the sellers responsibility until the buyer is happy with them needs to be clarified. I've seen threads where items have been lost or damaged in the post but the buyer has had to wait for the seller to complete a claim from the Royal Mail before getting a refund. As soon as both parties agree a claim needs to be made the seller should refund the buyer. The procedure elsewhere is usually that the seller refunds after the claim but that goes against the FS FT rules on here.

A lot of people are now creating a different FS FT thread for each item that they have. Sometimes they have 5+ active FS FT threads at one time. They then bump them all up at the same time knocking most other threads off of the first page. I think there should be a rule that you have to wait fifteen minutes between bumping your threads.

That will do for now as that took me ages to write yet I doubt any of the suggestions will be taken on board :-D

Banned

RedIron;5296708

The pictures one is a very good one, I see a respected member on here the … The pictures one is a very good one, I see a respected member on here the other day refusing to take pictures with his user name because his feedback was good. He took pictures but refused point blank to take some with his username. The person interested in his items was also a respected member. That should result in a instant closure of the thread.



If a post is not in the required format and the OP refuses to comply, then the thread will be locked.


RedIron;5296708

The Mods are very strict on bumping now yet every time they close a … The Mods are very strict on bumping now yet every time they close a thread they bump it to the top of the page. That means if you've just posted an item for sale whilst a mod is on a thread closing spree your thread will soon be on the second or third page because of all the threads the mods have bumped up. I can't see the point in bumping a thread up to just to say "thread closed @ ops request" as surely the OP knows that. I think it would be much better if the mod instead closes the thread and then edits the first post to say it that way it saves a pointless bump. I can understand the mods bump when they issue an infraction or whatever as it serves as a warning to other members.



The bumps allocated to each thread have been increased recently and would compensate for the above. However thread closures, whilst there can be a few in sequence, are not quite the volume highlighted.


RedIron;5296708

I think the items but be in your possession rule is a little flawed. When … I think the items but be in your possession rule is a little flawed. When it comes to selling tickets they're usually not sent out until a week in advance so that only gives you a few days before the event to sell them here. In the case of tickets you should be able to sell them prior to receiving them. Perhaps the rules can be changed so that you can agree a sale for tickets in advance of receiving them but only take payment once they're in your possesion.



There are no plans to change this rule. All items must be in the sellers possession. We don't want people to speculate either.


RedIron;5296708

Every negative feedback should be reviewed by a moderator. This will … Every negative feedback should be reviewed by a moderator. This will ensure the system is not abused and if there is a serious problem with a transaction a mod can act on it (a trading ban for example) pretty quickly. If not a moderator perhaps a few more "forum helpers" that are able to look over them and direct any problems to a real mod.



Every member has a right to refer feedback of a dubious nature for review.


RedIron;5296708

Not leaving feedback should result in a infraction. The amount of times … Not leaving feedback should result in a infraction. The amount of times i've seen someone saying they've been conned as they've been waiting months for their item yet when you look at the sellers feedback there is no mention. That means because of the buyer not leaving FB the seller has been able to continue trading for months without people having a warning about what he has done. Perhaps FB must be left within 14 days of agreeing a trade.



Feedback is optional, however it's worth pointing out the potential pitfalls of not doing so.


RedIron;5296708

The rule stating items remain the sellers responsibility until the buyer … The rule stating items remain the sellers responsibility until the buyer is happy with them needs to be clarified. I've seen threads where items have been lost or damaged in the post but the buyer has had to wait for the seller to complete a claim from the Royal Mail before getting a refund. As soon as both parties agree a claim needs to be made the seller should refund the buyer. The procedure elsewhere is usually that the seller refunds after the claim but that goes against the FS FT rules on here.



Sellers are responsible for ensuring goods get to the buyer. If the buyer is not happy with the process of a refund, they have the opportunity to reflect this in feedback. What if Royal Mail/Courier decide there is no basis for a claim ?


RedIron;5296708

A lot of people are now creating a different FS FT thread for each item … A lot of people are now creating a different FS FT thread for each item that they have. Sometimes they have 5+ active FS FT threads at one time. They then bump them all up at the same time knocking most other threads off of the first page. I think there should be a rule that you have to wait fifteen minutes between bumping your threads.



It's not that frequent that you'll see a large amount of sales from the same member grouped together, although when it's happened it's been in the clothing category. However there are only so many items that can be listed before 'trading status' may be deemed.


RedIron;5296708

That will do for now as that took me ages to write yet I doubt any of the … That will do for now as that took me ages to write yet I doubt any of the suggestions will be taken on board :-D



Thanks for the above, even if not taken on board, it's always refreshing to hear what the issues are, and importantly, what can be done to help.

aScottishBloke;5374874

Feedback is optional, however it's worth pointing out the potential … Feedback is optional, however it's worth pointing out the potential pitfalls of not doing so.


I thought that it had to be left? I thought that by rights a thread could not be closed until feedback had been left, and was compulsory?

aScottishBloke;5374874

Sellers are responsible for ensuring goods get to the buyer. If the buyer … Sellers are responsible for ensuring goods get to the buyer. If the buyer is not happy with the process of a refund, they have the opportunity to reflect this in feedback. What if Royal Mail/Courier decide there is no basis for a claim ?


So along with:
admin

(13) Goods remain the responsibility of the seller until the buyer takes … (13) Goods remain the responsibility of the seller until the buyer takes possession and affirms they are okay. For this reason be honest in your descriptions and include original photos so the buyer knows what they are getting! Also, use a form of insured and signed for delivery to ensure any shipping/delivery mishaps will be covered.



(Also in regards to my recent problem) Means that the buyer if not happy should get a refund unless they dont want a refund. But what about when the do want a refund but the seller refuses? Even with the option of returning the item for refund? Especially if the seller is sure the object is fine before posted and when received it is not as described, then surely royal mail are responsible? But in regards to my problem i know what they would say, that it was impossible to happen in the post.

There are certainly things that need changing to create a more fair system.
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