28 Comments

I don't think it's something we can actually write into the rules, but definitely something we should foster as a social expectation. I think this already happens - you members are in there asking for eBay IDs and piccies before the mods get in there

emmajk42;2679569

I don't think it's something we can actually write into the rules, but … I don't think it's something we can actually write into the rules, but definitely something we should foster as a social expectation. I think this already happens - you members are in there asking for eBay IDs and piccies before the mods get in there



:oops:

Original Poster

emmajk42;2679569

I don't think it's something we can actually write into the rules, but … I don't think it's something we can actually write into the rules, but definitely something we should foster as a social expectation. I think this already happens - you members are in there asking for eBay IDs and piccies before the mods get in there



Any particularly reason why you think something like this can't be written in? It would take the burden off everyone, I would have thought - members and mods alike. Do you think it would be perceived as being too authoritarian or something...? Or something else?

I don't think it's feasible that these things should be rules. We've had the discussion before regarding the piccies, not everyone has that ability.... Also, not everyone has feedback elsewhere either, we all have to start somewhere. Our rules are quite detailed as it is, and newbies constantly breach them (mostly by not reading them at all!).

As it stands at the minute, since we brought out the more detailed version of the rules, and a dedicated for sale mod, and helped to educate the members in checking things out for themselves - the for sale forum has been running pretty smoothly.

Yes, we do get the odd person in there trying to pull a fast one. But I think a genuine seller is going to give you all these things as soon as they are asked for them.

Feel free to discuss, the other mods and admin may have different opinions You know the rules are open to change, and we have changed them before at the members request.


emmajk42;2679966

I don't think it's feasible that these things should be rules. We've had … I don't think it's feasible that these things should be rules. We've had the discussion before regarding the piccies, not everyone has that ability.... Also, not everyone has feedback elsewhere either, we all have to start somewhere. Our rules are quite detailed as it is, and newbies constantly breach them (mostly by not reading them at all!). As it stands at the minute, since we brought out the more detailed version of the rules, and a dedicated for sale mod, and helped to educate the members in checking things out for themselves - the for sale forum has been running pretty smoothly. Yes, we do get the odd person in there trying to pull a fast one. But I think a genuine seller is going to give you all these things as soon as they are asked for them. Feel free to discuss, the other mods and admin may have different opinions You know the rules are open to change, and we have changed them before at the members request.



I, personally, think that the way we do it at the minute is quite effective, but I agree with Liddle that a lot of n00bs don't know enough about the site to do this first time. Maybe a 'suggestion', rather than a new rule, could be added to the FS/FT help thread to point out that it would be a good idea to follow this protocol as it is what other members expect / will request. (Could also save on post counts in the long run too :-D )

One of the biggest problems about rules are that they can breed a false sense of security. If say HUKD bring in a rule that says only members with above 3 feedback can post without pictures it will mean two things will happen.
1. Potential scammers will just accumulate feedback through a few low value items and then go for the kill.
2. Members will be lulled into that false sense of security because they think HUKD are saying it's OK to sell without pictures so it must be safe.

It's pretty much acknowledged that the more rules and more intricate the rules the bigger the scam is going to be. There might not be so many of the silly petty scams but believe me there will be scams.

It's virtually impossible to stop scamming because of greed. This has been proved over and over again.
In my opinion the safest and best option is to have some base rules which educate the buyers and sellers and then let them take responsibility for their buying and selling.

If you tell someone to not walk on the quicksand full stop or they will perish chances are they will take more notice than if you say don't walk on the quicksand UNLESS ......................................

Probably a bad analogy but I'm sure people will understand.

Original Poster

Well, I don't really have the energy tonight to pick apart in detail what I see as the flawed logic in the arguments in the post directly above. But yes, I do think that the analogy is a bad one. But then again it is preceded by two argments that are equally unpersuasive imo. Both points are alarmist. It's all right to pour water on practical measures, but borrowing from the defeatist logic of 'whetever we do they will win' has never made much sense to me. But I do understand the logic of JB's 'educational' message. I simply feel that we could get get a bit more support sometimes.

Liddle ol' me;2681833

Well, I don't really have the energy tonight to pick apart in detail what … Well, I don't really have the energy tonight to pick apart in detail what I see as the flawed logic in the arguments in the post directly above. But yes, I do think that the analogy is a bad one. But then again it is preceded by two argments that are equally unpersuasive imo. Both points are alarmist. [COLOR="Blue"]Both points are proven. Do your research and if you want a place to start try Ebay . [/COLOR]It's all right to pour water on practical measures,[COLOR="blue"]At no point did I "pour water on practical measures" I merely pointed out two well known problems when creating rules. [/COLOR] but borrowing from the defeatist logic of 'whetever we do they will win' has never made much sense to me. [COLOR="blue"]There's a difference between being defeatist and being a realist. At no point did I write 'whatever we do they will win' . Read the post again.[/COLOR] But I do understand the logic of JB's 'educational' message. I simply feel that we could get get a bit more support sometimes.



And so , on to a suggestion for a practical measure. It was often written about having a better template for submitting on the FS/FT Forum. Something that would make members at least part accountable for their postings and actions.

On that note would it maybe be an idea to have something like below when selling or buying ?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f160/ordinaryphotos/hukdforsalesubmit.jpg

Maybe it wouldn't be practical to employ the check box , maybe it's a non starter ? Some constructive feedback would be good

Banned

tony that has been suggested a few times to no avail

sassie;2682933

tony that has been suggested a few times to no avail



Ah sorry sassie, not up to speed on the FS/FT forum nowadays.

Apologies. :oops:

Original Poster

@ hottoshop - yes, well I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then!

Banned

hottoshop;2682949

Ah sorry sassie, not up to speed on the FS/FT forum nowadays.Apologies. … Ah sorry sassie, not up to speed on the FS/FT forum nowadays.Apologies. :oops:



me either, but this sorta thread has been doen to death (mainly by myself) so i know the tick box has been suggested many a time. I think no matter what is added the fs board will always be mainly moderated by members, helping out and pointing out better ways to post, encouraging others to be cautious etc,etc


And as for apologies, behave:p

Liddle ol' me;2682994

@ hottoshop - yes, well I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then!



Definitely a candidate for your thread hotukdeals.com/ite…ty/ and yes, always a good thing providing it's done with respect.

Take care

Original Poster

hottoshop;2683093

Definitely a candidate for your thread … Definitely a candidate for your thread http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/223653/hukd-s-most-common-cliches-stereoty/ and yes, always a good thing providing it's done with respect.Take care



Yes, I was guessing you might have picked up on that one as I typed it. I think it may already have been put fwd in that thread actually! :lol:

EDIT: Just washed the dishes and reflected on your words again. Came up with the first sentence, googled it to see if it was a used saying, and found the second! They sit well together...

Respect is always given, never taken. Offence is always taken, never given.

Would it not be possible to do something like posting pictures for new members, you know where new members can't post images

i.e.

If a seller has Under 5 feedback, 50 posts or has been a member less than 28 days then anytime they submit a FS FT thread it goes to a moderation Q for prior approval

Of course the new members will still be able to reply in threads and complete trades that way but it will be down to the buyers / sellers discretion to do a deal with them, but as long as both parties follow the FS FT guidelines there shouldn't be a problem.

I think the VBulletin coding should be pretty easy to write to be able to implement such a function

I think the mods should listen to suggestions from the users, decide which ones are feasible and then put it to the vote

Sloth/Mod

RedIron;2683851

If a seller has Under 5 feedback, 50 posts or has been a member less than … If a seller has Under 5 feedback, 50 posts or has been a member less than 28 days then anytime they submit a FS FT thread it goes to a moderation Q for prior approval



I like this idea.........but i'd like it to be extended to all rather than just pick out a few. It wouldn't bother me that my threads would have to go through the same process.

I think this idea would stop a lot of prohibited items cropping up in the forum as well.

Syzable;2684162

I like this idea.........but i'd like it to be extended to all rather … I like this idea.........but i'd like it to be extended to all rather than just pick out a few. It wouldn't bother me that my threads would have to go through the same process.I think this idea would stop a lot of prohibited items cropping up in the forum as well.



Must admit apart from obvious workload issues it would be a good idea if applied to all FS/FT posts.
Good call Sy and Red. :thumbsup:

Maybe a place for a couple of long standing members to volunteer in helping with the workload ?? (Just an idea)

This incurs some liability for the moderator in question. They all have different levels of 'discression' (sassie's favourite word).

All of these ideas have been bounced around in the past, but basically, people power is the only thing that can make it a safe place to deal. It's up to 'us' more experienced members to keep spamming and reporting threads to save others from their innocence

Banned

bazzaric;2685924

This incurs some liability for the moderator in question. They all have … This incurs some liability for the moderator in question. They all have different levels of 'discression' (sassie's favourite word).All of these ideas have been bounced around in the past, but basically, people power is the only thing that can make it a safe place to deal. It's up to 'us' more experienced members to keep spamming and reporting threads to save others from their innocence



cheeky

Yes, i agree all of these ideas have been mentioned before and done the rounds, like i said earlier and you have now said the only way to make it as safe as possible is by member interaction on the boards, something i did alot of but no longer do now, but im sure many still do, sadly those that make it impossible for members to look out for each other are those that come back whining after they have been ripped off

sassie;2685950

cheekyYes, i agree all of these ideas have been mentioned before and done … cheekyYes, i agree all of these ideas have been mentioned before and done the rounds, like i said earlier and you have now said the only way to make it as safe as possible is by member interaction on the boards, something i did alot of but no longer do now, but im sure many still do, sadly those that make it impossible for members to look out for each other are those that come back whining after they have been ripped off



What was the incentive before, and what has changed to make you stop reporting threads, etc? Not enough support from Admin/Mods? Feeling like you were the only one bothering?

Banned

bazzaric;2686038

What was the incentive before, and what has changed to make you stop … What was the incentive before, and what has changed to make you stop reporting threads, etc? Not enough support from Admin/Mods? Feeling like you were the only one bothering?



The only incentive to me was the thought i was helping, if i stopped one scammer on here, stopped one member being ripped off then that was brill, but then i just got fed up with the snide comments and over time saw others where taking more of an active interest so felt it was time to leave the fs board, i think through the activity of myself and others, more members have become more active on the fs boards

sassie;2686103

The only incentive to me was the thought i was helping, if i stopped one … The only incentive to me was the thought i was helping, if i stopped one scammer on here, stopped one member being ripped off then that was brill, but then i just got fed up with the snide comments and over time saw others where taking more of an active interest so felt it was time to leave the fs board, i think through the activity of myself and others, more members have become more active on the fs boards



definately...we need to keep it considered 'cool' to report various things. The only people who want to argue with these types of posts are those who

a) Have not read the rules
b) Don't like the rules
c) Want to rip people off.

and I for one would rather see a thread closed because of one of the above, than worry about being liked. There are plenty of people now reporting threads, and it can only be good for the community.

Banned

bazzaric;2686388

definately...we need to keep it considered 'cool' to report various … definately...we need to keep it considered 'cool' to report various things. The only people who want to argue with these types of posts are those whoa) Have not read the rulesb) Don't like the rulesc) Want to rip people off.and I for one would rather see a thread closed because of one of the above, than worry about being liked. There are plenty of people now reporting threads, and it can only be good for the community.



LOL- nothing to do with being liked, i like myself so certainly dont need hukd to like me, i come on hukd for various reasons and continual snide remarks aint one of them, i think i helped more members become active and a bigger part of the fs board over time, so i can say i felt like i contributed to the community built in the fs board, thats good enough for me

sassie;2686473

LOL- nothing to do with being liked, i like myself so certainly dont need … LOL- nothing to do with being liked, i like myself so certainly dont need hukd to like me, i come on hukd for various reasons and continual snide remarks aint one of them, i think i helped more members become active and a bigger part of the fs board over time, so i can say i felt like i contributed to the community built in the fs board, thats good enough for me



The post wasn't directed at you, just replied to you! :-D

Original Poster

bazzaric;2686622

The post wasn't directed at you, just replied to you! :-D



It's only because sassie likes to be liked that she thought so (eh sass? :p)

bazzaric;2686388

and I for one would rather see a thread closed because of one of the … and I for one would rather see a thread closed because of one of the above, than worry about being liked. There are plenty of people now reporting threads, and it can only be good for the community.



Yes, quite a few people make reports on the for sale forum, they are really useful, so thanks to all!


I also like the moderation queue idea, but it would really be up to admin to comment on issues like that which involve changes in site design and architecture

Another option could be to give a warning to those who take part in any threads against FS FT rules

For example if someone posts a thread selling a weapon or pirate games not only does the seller get a suspension but anyone who made an offer should receive an infraction.

Or a seller lists an item for sale then few days later opens a new thread on it. A member points out that they already have a thread open on it anyone who subsequently makes an offer should receive a warning.

By doing this it would mean buyers would be more careful when taking part in a thread

I'm not too sure about this one though, it's just a suggestion

emmajk42;2687945

[B]I also like the moderation queue idea, but it would really be up to … [B]I also like the moderation queue idea, but it would really be up to admin to comment on issues like that which involve changes in site design and architecture



That's true... this site has already been heavily modified/customised from the original/default way vBul runs. I know that a few of the suggestions that I had provider earlier on were a bit difficut to in-corporate. However, the suggestion regarding the mininal posts, perhaps by date or by post count by member is definetly something that would be nice if consider.

Many thanks.
kDmG
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