86 Comments

Original Poster Banned

We've revised the trading rules. some key points are noted below, however members should take the opportunity to review the trading rules in full prior to any further posts.

Member safety and trading is of the utmost importance. It is your … Member safety and trading is of the utmost importance. It is your responsibility to ensure that you are content to trade based on the details exchanged between members.


A maximum of 3 bumps per thread. Whilst pics are not mandatory later … A maximum of 3 bumps per thread. Whilst pics are not mandatory later submissions will count as a bump, Likewise threads which have multiple items on offer and later contain consecutive posts by a member who has not utilised the maximum of 5 pics per post may also be deemed to have incurred 1 or more bumps


No Thread Spoiling. A reminder that there is no reason to post within a … No Thread Spoiling. A reminder that there is no reason to post within a trading thread unless you are interested in the item on offer or linking to the same item elsewhere and new. Anything else may be deemed thread spoiling or a bump.


Prohibited Trades: Contains a current list of items not permitted for … Prohibited Trades: Contains a current list of items not permitted for listing. Credit Notes/Gift Cards with a monetary value are now permitted for sale. Usual bulk selling rules will apply to such trades.



Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 9th Nov 2010

No mention of PS3 Jailbreak (Not a card or Battery).......so are they allowed again? Cheers.

Banned

Anyway, glad to see that gift cards are allowed again - that really was a stupid rule.
Edited by moderator: "* off topic comment removed" 9th Nov 2010

Original Poster Banned

Syzable

No mention of PS3 Jailbreak (Not a card or Battery).......so are they … No mention of PS3 Jailbreak (Not a card or Battery).......so are they allowed again? Cheers.



No, they aren't allowed. We didn't want to go down the road of a list containing all prohibited items, it's just that we feel there are certain items which pop up now and again and are worthy of being highlighted. That said, I've added the device to the list.





Trading Rules Revised

The Trading Rules were updated on 09/11/2010. If you use the trading … The Trading Rules were updated on 09/11/2010. If you use the trading forums it's in your interests to review. Click here for further info.

Thanks for the reply............only wondered as i have one.

p.s - thanks for returning my Karl love fest too

Credit Notes/Gift Cards-does this include paper vouchers,top up cards and itunes type things?

Original Poster Banned

boothy

Credit Notes/Gift Cards-does this include paper vouchers,top up cards and … Credit Notes/Gift Cards-does this include paper vouchers,top up cards and itunes type things?



We might have to make that a little clearer, I'll pick up on that later. It's not going to be applicable to e-codes, basically it should be a tangible item, although the method of delivery to the buyer might be electronic. I'm thinking that an itunes card is good, but the buyer may just want the code scratched off and emailed. You can see the potential for abuse here, but we'll have that covered by other rules, e.g. bulk sales in order to limit exploitation

Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 9th Nov 2010

threadjacking/spoiling

what if i go into a thread i am interested in,see that the person is attempting to rip people off by giving incorect info about a product,
im not allowed to say anything and should let the potential buyer be ripped off?

can u just clarify that is the rule and the way it should be?

Banned

ramiuk1

threadjacking/spoilingwhat if i go into a thread i am interested in,see … threadjacking/spoilingwhat if i go into a thread i am interested in,see that the person is attempting to rip people off by giving incorect info about a product,im not allowed to say anything and should let the potential buyer be ripped off?can u just clarify that is the rule and the way it should be?




and what about Multi's being spotted by members? Are people not allowed to say anything anymore? Usually by time mods have responded to the report its being going for a while therefore members usually save people from getting scammed




ALSO


hotukdeals.com/for…969

wasnt this banned previously? Is it allowed now then?

Original Poster Banned

ramiuk1

threadjacking/spoilingwhat if i go into a thread i am interested in,see … threadjacking/spoilingwhat if i go into a thread i am interested in,see that the person is attempting to rip people off by giving incorect info about a product,im not allowed to say anything and should let the potential buyer be ripped off?can u just clarify that is the rule and the way it should be?



You can ask the OP for clarification, pointing out your observation. Most members have always tried to look after one another, so we don't have an issue with that. However, we also don't want to see a prolonged discussion either. In the event of a single post not being actioned, feel free to report the thread as a misrepresentation.


ODB_69

and what about Multi's being spotted by members? Are people not allowed … and what about Multi's being spotted by members? Are people not allowed to say anything anymore? Usually by time mods have responded to the report its being going for a while therefore members usually save people from getting scammedALSO[url=%0Ahttp://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/for-sale-2100-microsoft-points-14-5/796969]http://www.hotukdeals.com/for-sale-trade/for-sale-2100-microsoft-points-14-5/796969[/url]wasnt this banned previously? Is it allowed now then?



If you suspect a Multi ID then you should report it as soon as possible. Mod responses are incredibly quick, much faster than any site I've ever seen, so please refrain from having a pop at any available opportunity.


Vouchers as permitted as advised earlier in a response to Boothy. The physical item must exist though, although it's up to the buyer/seller on how the code would be delivered to the intended recipient.

Banned

aScottishBloke

[b]If you suspect a Multi ID then you should report it as soon as … [b]If you suspect a Multi ID then you should report it as soon as possible. Mod responses are incredibly quick, much faster than any site I've ever seen, so please refrain from having a pop at any available opportunity.Vouchers as permitted as advised earlier in a response to Boothy. The physical item must exist though, although it's up to the buyer/seller on how the code would be delivered to the intended recipient.




How am I having a pop?? Seriously...ASB thats you not me


members react much faster than mods at peak times, you know it, I know it...how many threads have you seen where members have caught out multis before any mod has had time to react/deal? Happens all the time...what about middle of the night?? thats happened before a few times


And no I wasnt talking about vouchers, previously you banned people from selling items that were bought together and then splitting. Some were profitable splits, some not (like in this case) but all were banned as the arguement was TECHNICALLY they have no RRP seperately if bought together

Original Poster Banned

ODB_69,

Your comments above were related to the time it takes the mods to respond to reports. It's ultra quick, better than you've probably seen elsewhere.

Splitting of bundled items in a package has been permitted for quite a while now. As long as both items are not sold at a price above the total purchase price, then it's perfectly acceptable.


*Note: Mod coverage here is 24/7 and has been for quite a while. Not all reports are correct, nor do many contain reasons for suspicions and the lack of a personal response to a report does not mean we've ignored or failed to action.


Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 10th Nov 2010

Banned

I didnt think he was having a pop at you?

Reports are actioned with varying speeds, when you are on they are done quickly, when you aren't its hit and miss if things are done.

Banned

aScottishBloke

ODB_69,Your comments above were related to the time it takes the mods to … ODB_69,Your comments above were related to the time it takes the mods to respond to reports. It's ultra quick, better than you've probably seen elsewhere.Splitting of bundled items in a package has been permitted for quite a while now. As long as both items are not sold at a price above the total purchase price, then it's perfectly acceptable.*Note: Mod coverage here is 24/7 and has been for quite a while. Not all reports are correct, nor do many contain reasons for suspicions and the lack of a personal response to a report does not mean we've ignored or failed to action.




WRONG - AVF is much faster to be dealt with in my experience (and much better but thats a different discussion)

You cant be everywhere at once unless your seriously telling us you and the mds read every single FS thread! of course you dont! you rely on reports being made, so in those minutes someone can get scammed. I can think of a few times people have been scammed before a mod has locked the thread. I mean look at that whole katlou mess. According to that thread people reported in some instances and things werent done until too late. Not blaming you lot, but I'm saying you rely on members reporting and policing the FS boards as has always been the case. You havent got the resources to keep an eye on them and FOLK so you rely on reporting. This whole site is based on the principle of people watching out for others etc. If not and its solely mod responsibility why else do you have spam/expire/report buttons? You rely on members spotting and reporting this stuff, so are they to wait if they spot something or do they risk an infraction for helping? You've been around long enough to know members have saved a lot of people from being scammed here, so surely if they spot something dodgy they can post as previous? If not you need to look into that rule seriously...think about it, thats how you got to be a mod after all cause you like numerous others watched out on the FS for scammers and the like so therefore to ban people doing what you did is surely wrong? Not a dig before you inevitably say it again its trying to find out whats right or not. If members are banned from posting anything I forsee a **** storm ahead

are you sure its 24/7? a lot of spamming by dodgy companies and people being going on and taking quite a while to be sorted...but if you say so...though I'm not convinced


Ah right...I thought bundles were still banned but fair enough, always thought it was wrong tbh as sometimes its legit and not profiteetring. FYI - is this profiteering? - hotukdeals.com/for…154 same guy as earlier now selling the game also. Whats the HUKD rule on Postage packing costs? seems a bit excessive to me and slightly dodgy

Original Poster Banned

Your post has confused me. We know members have always looked after each other, and indeed it's an important part of the site and nothing has changed on that front. I don't get the point your making.

Several things wrong in the thread you linked above. The OP has failed to value items listed for trade and there's a member making a pointless post. e.g responding to the request by confirming he has an item that has been requested, however there's no offer in return. Thread then changes status as an item is then offered for sale with no valuation either.

With reference to profiteering, that will be occur when the member requests a sum greater than £28.50, having already realised £14 from the sale of their points.,

Postage should be reasonable and reflect actual costs.

Banned

point is rules now clearer on posting on threads when not looking to buy, was a bit of a grey area before but this is more straight...so will members helping on threads get infractions for thread spoiling?


BTW am I missing something or is it now not in the rules RE: Having item in hand and iterm being your own property?

Original Poster Banned

Good spot, omitted in error re possession.

As for members helping each other. I think one post is enough if pointing out a discrepancy otherwise unfair bumping ensues. As before, consider reporting if not satisfied.

Quite a few members seem to think "Price too high, only a quid dearer at [insert merchant]" is a helpful comment, when quite clearly it's not.

Original Poster Banned

cookiemonster83

I guess it's too late now, but should some clarification be made about … I guess it's too late now, but should some clarification be made about members trying to bring down the price of something by saying 'my mate has offered me one for £xx' or whatever? I see people do it fairly often and you shouldn't be allowed to make any comparison that can't be proven, in my opinion. I can't help thinking there should be something in the rules about it.Also, some clarification about what exactly constitutes a low-ball offer in the mods' eyes would be handy. I've reported some blatantly insulting offers in my time which haven't been actioned.



Members should decline if not satisfied with the offer, regardless of claims made elsewhere.

As for low offers, it's difficult to judge, however happy to review any that are reported. Just because some items are guaranteed a minimum trade in of £x,xx at the likes of CEX doesn't deem bids under that figure to be lowball. There are several factors to take into account such as time/convenience/availability/urgency/etc.

Blatantly low bids which would never have a chance of being accepted will be dealt with under the current rules with regards to thread spoiling.

Banned

aScottishBloke

Good spot, omitted in error re possession.As for members helping each … Good spot, omitted in error re possession.As for members helping each other. I think one post is enough if pointing out a discrepancy otherwise unfair bumping ensues. As before, consider reporting if not satisfied.Quite a few members seem to think "Price too high, only a quid dearer at [insert merchant]" is a helpful comment, when quite clearly it's not.



ah thought I was just missing it but at least thats sorted then

nah I agree 1 post is enough generally to point out the flaw, unless its a scammer and so long as the rule isnt followed in certain and genuine cases then it will go fine though I agree the "cheaper elsewhere" comments defo need hitting hard as its unfair and sometimes not even true!

My point re: members helping is reinforced by that thread though, mods cant be everywhere at once so relies on members to point out and report mistakes etc as I see they still havent listed a price

1 other thing...are the 'if OP isnt interested I'll take" style comments no longer allowed either? Seems to be expressly forbidden in rules now or is that ust my interpretation?

ODB_69

1 other thing...are the 'if OP isnt interested I'll take" style comments … 1 other thing...are the 'if OP isnt interested I'll take" style comments no longer allowed either? Seems to be expressly forbidden in rules now or is that ust my interpretation?



No, they've been not allowed for quite a while now mate.

mod

trinaandlee
This is not the place to discuss your own personal grievances.
If you feel that a trading ban is wrong you need to use the ‘contact’ link. Admin can look at it and if they feel that a trading ban is no longer relevant they will lift it. However, I recall that you have already done this and the trading ban remains in place.
Please keep this feedback thread on topic and not a forum to single out any mod for a decision he or she has made.
I have deleted your posts and the responses. Any further attempts will also be deleted.

supermod

ODB_69

1 other thing...are the 'if OP isnt interested I'll take" style comments … 1 other thing...are the 'if OP isnt interested I'll take" style comments no longer allowed either? Seems to be expressly forbidden in rules now or is that ust my interpretation?

Taking over someone else’s thread and using it for your own means.

Please ONLY post in a thread if you are interested in engaging in the … Please ONLY post in a thread if you are interested in engaging in the sale/trade listed. Anything else will be considered thread spoiling and will be deleted. Thread spoilers, including threadjackers, face a ban from the FS/FT forum.



As syzable has highlighted both under old and new rules that would be classed as thread hijacking and if reported comments will normally be removed :


No Thread Jacking.




Members are free to start their own request or wanted threads threads if they are interested in selling, buying or trading an item in compliance with the forum rules, but they should never threadjack another members thread even if the member has turned the item down as it is still proxy bumping that thread, thanks again
Edited by: "sigma" 11th Nov 2010

when i click the above link to review the new trading rules in blue above, it took me to the old page , if an op can rectify it pls?

blingbling

when i click the above link to review the new trading rules in blue … when i click the above link to review the new trading rules in blue above, it took me to the old page , if an op can rectify it pls?



The "revised trading rules" link above is correct, although the original post is dated 2006 it was edited to update on 10/11/2010.

I think a mod needs to clear this up regarding the new guidelines - hotukdeals.com/mis…127

Retaliatory feedback left (supposedly against the rules as in this thread but not applicable in this case) and advised by a mod not to refund?? Thought the new rules were meant to clear things up not apply to only certain people and muddy the waters further.

Syzable

I think a mod needs to clear this up regarding the new guidelines … I think a mod needs to clear this up regarding the new guidelines -http://www.hotukdeals.com/misc/can-someone-help-me-please/800127Retaliatory feedback left (supposedly against the rules as in this thread but not applicable in this case) and advised by a mod not to refund?? Thought the new rules were meant to clear things up not apply to only certain people and muddy the waters further.



Sellers should not be allowed to leave negatives unless the person is rude or has good reason, seems accusations were thrown around. Find it hard a mod would advise not to refund a person, would like a clearing up on why that came to pass, and if the mod in question did so can they be advised not to do so again. Seems a very strange thread.
Edited by: "Adam2050" 14th Nov 2010

Original Poster Banned

We didn't give any instruction NOT to refund, however I did take the opportunity to establish the facts.

Given the time period elapsed between notifications and the resulting impasse, leaving feedback seemed applicable. As feedback applies to the overall user experience, we won't be making any amendments to the negative ratings. I wouldn't be keen on restricting ratings depending on status i.e. buy or sell, as neither party should be subject to a ratings restriction.

Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 14th Nov 2010

They seem to be under the impression that one of the mods told them not to refund though. I'm still baffled how they know the buyer is a thief as they have implied on the feedback.

I've seen feedback removed for far less but as always it depends on certain 'criiteria' i guess.

Either way.........that's another chalked up on the do not deal with list.

Original Poster Banned

I've reviewed the feedback left for BobbyButtons. In this instance I've removed it as the statement is incorrect. I didn't instruct not to refund.

The member may leave the feedback again, but without reference to statements that weren't made.

Please may I seek further guidance about the "Profiteering is not permitted" rule ("You must not list items for higher than their RRP, nor can you trade items for a higher price you have paid for the same item elsewhere on the site") again?

(I note that the previous trading rules made reference to "Profiteering is NOT permitted and this includes items previously found at a lower price in the 'Deals' or ANY forum here).

Yesterday I added a comment to a thread (see below), & reported the fact I had done so using the usual "report/spam" link under the thread description.

My first comment was removed, & then my second. The replies to my comment(s) from the seller were also removed. No text was posted from any site representative into the thread though.

For Sale: Black Ops Brand New Sealed

The seller is (still) looking for £35.00 for the PlayStation 3 game title "Call of Duty: Black Ops" that was purchased together with a £20 PlayStation Network Card for £45.00.

At the time of writing yesterday, the deal was still active (but it has now been 'Expired'):

Call Of Duty: Black Ops £25 When Bought With £20 PSN Credit, 2100 MS Points Or 3 Months Xbox Live @ Tesco

After my initial comments I visited the Tesco Entertainment site & purchased two PS3 titles (at a listed price of £39.90 each together with two £20 PlayStation Network cards). The price of the game was clearly displayed as £25 (each) as I progressed through the pages to confirm my order.

The seller confirms in the "For Sale/For Trade" thread that this was how the game was obtained

Further input from another member was added:

Johnboy_1975

ASB did a thing about this, when you buy 2 items you can sell either up … ASB did a thing about this, when you buy 2 items you can sell either up to 1p below the combined price of both, but then can't sell the 2nd item as you would be profiteering. Not sure he is right, but hey.......just saying



Is this (now) how the "profiteering" rule is to operate?

Thanks for your clarification.

BFN,

fp.

Original Poster Banned

The deal in question relates to a compulsory bundle purchase, therefore as long as both items are not sold for a combined price greater than the initial outlay then we won't be intervening. It's not for us to determine the members valuation of 1 or more remaining items.

The idea is to let as many trades flow freely without member/mod intervention. We should have enough rules in place to restrict the opportunities that some would wish to exploit, e,g. bulk/trader like.

Given the example above, members are still entitled to post links within the trading forums as to where the item can currently be obtained at a lower price and in new condition from established retailers.

Edited by: "aScottishBloke" 16th Nov 2010

Thanks for your reply, aSB.

If I spot the same seller or, indeed, any other seller, making a profit by selling two (or more) bundled items separately at a higher price than the original purchase price (combined) then I will advise you accordingly.

Were you responsible for removing my comments & those of the seller in the thread I highlighted?

Perhaps I should raised a Feedback thread to suggest that any Moderator intervention in a thread (especially removal of one/more comments, or the editing of comments) generates a "Private Message" to the affected party, or perhaps a new notification area somewhere in the Member Profile pages to advise that this has occurred).

BFN,

fp.

cookiemonster83

Or, don't get yourself involved in the thread and just report to a mod … Or, don't get yourself involved in the thread and just report to a mod like everyone else.



I was interested in purchasing the item in the thread; but thanks for your advice.

BFN,

fp.

fanpages

I was interested in purchasing the item in the thread; but thanks for your … I was interested in purchasing the item in the thread; but thanks for your advice.BFN,fp.



YOU SAID: If I spot the same seller or, indeed, any other seller, making a profit by selling two (or more) bundled items separately at a higher price than the original purchase price (combined) then I will advise you accordingly.

Hope you was not refering to me, as all along in my thread i was not making a profit, all along i knew i was not doing anything against the rules, and the mods agreed with me, i could not have been more clearer in my posts.

Edited by: "Daytrader" 16th Nov 2010

(I presume you visited this thread due as I provided a link in your original thread so any interested parties could see aSB's response)

Yes, it was aimed at you, or anybody else; but not you specifically. If you achieved £35.00 from the sale of one of the bundled items, for instance, & you subsequently sold the second bundled item for more than £10.00, then you would be breaking the trading rules; as would I if I engaged in a similar activity.

You did seem to be suggesting that because you did not have a receipt then the game was £39.99 (although I ignored the fact you added on 9p from £39.90) regardless of the "clear posts" you had provided:

Daytrader

yes your correct, exactly what i posted above, 45 for both, i want my psn … yes your correct, exactly what i posted above, 45 for both, i want my psn for just 10, so i need 35 to b/e, but no receit says 39.99 in game box and 20 in code box, i'll proabaly just go get 33 in cash from cex anyway, 1 postage, so i would only be looseing 1 on the deal.Edited By: Daytrader on Nov 14, 2010 14:06



Daytrader

im a trader by nature, so £10 for card im happy, and to other poster mine … im a trader by nature, so £10 for card im happy, and to other poster mine came with a receit in game box stateing £39.90, even thou game and card was 45.



The rules have been clarified now; so we are all now aware (if we were not before I asked again).

My point was that this term was not stated to sufficient depth (for my understanding) in the recent revision of the rules.

BFN,

fp.

yeh i knew the rules anyway from start, i bought both for 45 wanted 35 for game so that would mean i got my psn card for 10, no profit, also to note the receit was 39.90 in game box and 20 in card box, so as usual i was posting 100% truth and facts, anyway as you say all cleared up.

BFN also, to next time we meet!

Rules on profiteering haven't changed at all.

Adam2050

Rules on profiteering haven't changed at all.



That's what i thought.

Mountain / Molehill spring to mind here. lol

Original Poster Banned

Misc valuation type threads are subject to the same relisting requirements as items appearing in the trading forums. This had been left out of the previous rewrite in error.

Managing your threads.

It is the responsibility of the member to ensure that they lock threads … It is the responsibility of the member to ensure that they lock threads and ensure 7 full days have elapsed from the last post should they decide to relist. Threads can be self managed via HUKD’s dedicated trading site at fo.lk Members can log in using their current HUKD username and password. All posts are replicated between both sites. Any Item subject to a valuation request in Misc must be reported for closure and a full 7 days have elapsed from the date/time of the last post, prior to listing the same item in the trading forums.

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