Posted 11 April 2024
Introducing our new Code of Conduct
Update 1
Our new Code of Conduct is now live
Hi everyone 👋
We’re very pleased to announce that the new Code of Conduct (v2.0) is now ready to go live in a ‘soft launch/trial’ mode. Out of all the Pepper sites, hotukdeals is going to be the first place we launch these so we’re looking forward to getting your feedback to evaluate the impact.
Our new Code of Conduct is now live
Our goal is to make a subtle shift in how the interactions between members, and between members and our team, take place. Currently, the Community Support team spend a lot of time moderating - that is reacting to your deals, comments and inbox messages.
We’d like to spend more time reaching out and engaging with you to understand how things are going, explain our point of view, and generally have more quality conversations. move the needle with our communities from ‘moderation’ (reactive) to ‘community management’ (proactive),
To support that change, we will be using a new model. It’s called CATS (because, who doesn’t like cats?) and you can see the core values here:
We want to look at ways we can loosen the moderation restraints where reasonable and appropriate. If we can be a little more liberal in our approach without opening the door too far, all the time aiming to make our communities more pleasant and engaging to be part of, that’s the balance we’ll strive for.
The TEST part might be of most interest, here are some examples of what you might see us looking at:
In both these examples, we currently have a zero tolerance approach. The CATS model would allow us to run test periods, communicated with members with some clear guidelines around loosening the rules and seeing what happens. The responsibility is then very much shared with you.
If we get mainly positive feedback, we can look to extend it. If it’s clear it’s not working or causing more issues, we can revert and update accordingly.
We need to be able to remain current in an ever-changing world and not be afraid to try new ideas and experiment (sometimes failing fast, learning and iterating). We also want you all to be part of that process.
Lastly, our ‘house style’ is so important. How we all interact with each other is fundamental to what makes our communities so popular and successful. Being mindful of our communication style will help all teams be more confident to speak with members and create engaging posts on a more regular basis.
Moderation and community management is a constant balance of multiple things, reflecting the diversity of everyone who uses our platform. We’ll never find a perfect balance that works for every member, but we’ll keep testing, collecting feedback and learning.
This only works if we have trust, and see the Community Support team and the community itself as being on the same side - wanting to create an amazing place to share deals, feedback, knowledge and have fun.s. Sometimes we make decisions based on overwhelming data, sometimes we try things to help us grow revenues without having a negative impact on the user experience (this is still a business underneath), and sometimes it’s a pure ‘what’s good for our community’ decision.
Most commonly, it’s a mixture of all of these.
Please remember that real people work behind the avatars who genuinely care about the community and its members. You might not agree with us, that’s OK. However, please provide feedback constructively and accept that sometimes some decisions won’t be right for you.
Some helpful additional information about our Community support team:
Lastly, thanks to each and every one of you for the continued support and contributions you give to us. It’s an amazing community that has not only saved people tons of money, but has provided insight, experience, reviews, support, friendship and a home for so many.
Any discussion should focus on a current topic of interest, and we encourage debate and personal opinions. However, comments must always remain respectful and avoid becoming personal. If any unsuitable content is posted, we kindly ask members to report it for review by the team, rather than engaging in arguments or escalating the situation. It's important to note that simply expressing an opposing opinion is not grounds for reporting; it's the wording and intent behind the comment that matters (so baiting isn't allowed either). Healthy debate is encouraged.
We’re very pleased to announce that the new Code of Conduct (v2.0) is now ready to go live in a ‘soft launch/trial’ mode. Out of all the Pepper sites, hotukdeals is going to be the first place we launch these so we’re looking forward to getting your feedback to evaluate the impact.
Our new Code of Conduct is now live
Our goal is to make a subtle shift in how the interactions between members, and between members and our team, take place. Currently, the Community Support team spend a lot of time moderating - that is reacting to your deals, comments and inbox messages.
We’d like to spend more time reaching out and engaging with you to understand how things are going, explain our point of view, and generally have more quality conversations. move the needle with our communities from ‘moderation’ (reactive) to ‘community management’ (proactive),
To support that change, we will be using a new model. It’s called CATS (because, who doesn’t like cats?) and you can see the core values here:
We want to look at ways we can loosen the moderation restraints where reasonable and appropriate. If we can be a little more liberal in our approach without opening the door too far, all the time aiming to make our communities more pleasant and engaging to be part of, that’s the balance we’ll strive for.
- CORE - these are the foundational rules we believe keep the community safe and secure
- ADAPT - For certain topics (often emerging ones) Pepper communities diverge in how they engage, so we’ll be flexible
- TEST - In collaboration with members, we want to test new approaches to thorny issues, such as ‘off topic’ or ‘political posts’
- STYLE - we want transparent and clear communication, so everyone knows where they stand
The TEST part might be of most interest, here are some examples of what you might see us looking at:
- Language: We get feedback that we should give more leniency in our comment moderation to allow some more natural language, including some light swearing.
- Political: We get feedback that people should be allowed to politely debate some political issues.
In both these examples, we currently have a zero tolerance approach. The CATS model would allow us to run test periods, communicated with members with some clear guidelines around loosening the rules and seeing what happens. The responsibility is then very much shared with you.
If we get mainly positive feedback, we can look to extend it. If it’s clear it’s not working or causing more issues, we can revert and update accordingly.
We need to be able to remain current in an ever-changing world and not be afraid to try new ideas and experiment (sometimes failing fast, learning and iterating). We also want you all to be part of that process.
Lastly, our ‘house style’ is so important. How we all interact with each other is fundamental to what makes our communities so popular and successful. Being mindful of our communication style will help all teams be more confident to speak with members and create engaging posts on a more regular basis.
Moderation and community management is a constant balance of multiple things, reflecting the diversity of everyone who uses our platform. We’ll never find a perfect balance that works for every member, but we’ll keep testing, collecting feedback and learning.
This only works if we have trust, and see the Community Support team and the community itself as being on the same side - wanting to create an amazing place to share deals, feedback, knowledge and have fun.s. Sometimes we make decisions based on overwhelming data, sometimes we try things to help us grow revenues without having a negative impact on the user experience (this is still a business underneath), and sometimes it’s a pure ‘what’s good for our community’ decision.
Most commonly, it’s a mixture of all of these.
Please remember that real people work behind the avatars who genuinely care about the community and its members. You might not agree with us, that’s OK. However, please provide feedback constructively and accept that sometimes some decisions won’t be right for you.
Some helpful additional information about our Community support team:
- Our actions and decisions are not affected by merchant relationships; we are distinct from editorial, commercial or other related departments.
- Our actions are guided solely by the Publication Rules, Code of Conduct and our general moderation processes around good content.
- The Community Support team have no financial or money-incentivised targets.
- We never remove good deals so other teams (including our editorial colleagues) can then repost.
- If you’ve had a comment removed or have a further community-related a query you can contact us again via
- If you have been on moderation for 3+ months you can request a review via
Lastly, thanks to each and every one of you for the continued support and contributions you give to us. It’s an amazing community that has not only saved people tons of money, but has provided insight, experience, reviews, support, friendship and a home for so many.
- Update - 09/05/24
Any discussion should focus on a current topic of interest, and we encourage debate and personal opinions. However, comments must always remain respectful and avoid becoming personal. If any unsuitable content is posted, we kindly ask members to report it for review by the team, rather than engaging in arguments or escalating the situation. It's important to note that simply expressing an opposing opinion is not grounds for reporting; it's the wording and intent behind the comment that matters (so baiting isn't allowed either). Healthy debate is encouraged.
Community Updates
592 Comments
sorted byPeople are moaning and rolling their eyes because the moderation could be a bit overly judicious and inconsistent on a post about making it more laid back and consistent.
I've had a couple of comments eaten in moderation over the years. And sure, nothing disincentivises interaction more than comments getting deleted.
But overall, this place is kept pretty darn clean and tidy. We've all likely experienced places that have a more hands-off approach to moderation, and more oft than not, it's not pleasant.
Moderation is a balance.
Most people are good, decent, helpful and civil. Some people are just a word that is still against the code of conduct.
With most people if you push the right buttons, their claws come out. Some excel and delight at pushing buttons of others.
You have to take out the trash or rot sets in.
I'm not saying the balance has always been perfect in the past, neither are they.
But these changes are about giving us all a bit more rope to do with as we please. Treating us as responsible adults despite the fact many of us occasionally act like angry children.
Good. And to the moderators, "good luck herding cats".
It's the main reason I only simply vote hot or cold as there's little point in commenting when discussion is so restricted,usually unnecessarily.
That a certain level of moderation is needed isn't really up for debate,just that it needs applied equally to all users.
It should be moderated to a fixed rule, not some prissy opinion
What would count as light swearing? Sounds silly to ask, but I do think the severity of swear words does differ depending on the area of the country you may reside. ( Not trying to get you to type a lot of swear words for a giggle, honest. )
I wish you guys all the best with the moderation of political posts though. I'm not hopeful that one will work out. Society still seems a bit too divided and angry when it comes to political beliefs.
Some examples below of what would be allowed and what wouldn't be allowed under 'profanity':
✅ It was a bloody good meal / it's still not bloody working
✅ it was shitty quality / Oh shit, I forgot about the deadline
❌ No strong profanity under any circumstances
❌ No negative comments used to belittle / bait / attack another individual or group
Does make me wonder if Mods just couldn't be bothered to moderate per chance they were criticised for heavy handed moderation.
I'm a gamer and I see sites shut down comments sections preemptively. You get usual misunderstanding bleating about 'free speech' on other threads which normal people have to roll eyes at and ignore, but it makes the sites less depressing to navigate overall. I can see why the mods here do it and I support that.
The current moderation dilutes the usefulness of the website by blocking and obstructing useful views and opinion, that has turned it into something very bland and bordering on useless at times.
I hope the new code of conduct protects ordinary UK people with ordinary normal views, from the woke perpetually offended that degrade everybody's life and experiences. HOT-UK-Deals could be so much better. It needs to understand UK values and expectations and manage the website accordingly.
Do people still manage to say this stuff with a straight face? Use of these phrases tells everyone to ignore your opinion and move on. You may think that, but find a more cerebral way to say it. Just some free
life advice!
We did message to OP and let them know. However, to explain we sent the following:-
Since hotukdeals was launched in 2004 we've allowed members to openly discuss their position and feelings on a huge range of subjects. While we encourage all users to be respectful toward one another at all times, we're sure you can appreciate that the aforementioned topics tend to create huge discord among our community and account for a disproportionately high amount of complaints and reports.
We've taken the decision as of March 1st 2018 to no longer allow debate or discussion on politics or religion. As many of you have mentioned in the past, these threads typically tend to head one way and the users within them can often be accused of flame baiting.
This sounds like a great idea and hopefully allows HUKD to flourish and allow people to speak freely - a basic staple of our modern society where hopefully everyone can get along
Core Response Adaptive Process is another good modern moderation method I hear
Most of the HUKD's negative trustpilots reviews have mentioned issues with moderation.
Lets hope the site will now be able flourish again.
uk.trustpilot.com/rev…ncy
I think it would be ideal to implement some kind of filter that changes the common ones to %%%% or something, and have logged in users able to toggle it. That way if it bothered anyone they could opt out.
Another potential option would be a "It looks like you may have used this word, and this is our policy. Would you like to change that before posting? Change. / Post without changes."
At the end you will probably more annoyed members than if you had just stopped it at the onset.
You have opened a can of worms. It is clear impartial and consistent moderation by all staff members is going to be very difficult as everyone has their own views / interpretations. Good luck
Due to the huge amounts of off-topic, overly political and downright offensive comments (from both sides of the conflict), we had to take the decision to restrict comments.
We don't like doing that and will only do so as a last resort, but if you could see the kind of comments that were caught by our filter software and didn't even make it onto the thread - never mind the ones that were removed - you would understand why.
The thread was being ruined, which is particularly disappointing on a post for a charity/fundraiser item.
I can also assure you that none of the Community Support team are interested in 'winning'; our instruction for any thread is to keep it on topic (in relation to the item being discussed) and to ensure it adheres to the site rules.
We genuinely have neither the time or of the man/woman power to point score, offer preferential treatment or single out specific users.
It just doesn't happen and we moderate based on content and/or reports.
Due to limited resource and a heavy workload at points of this evening, it probably was a bit piecemeal on this thread for a period of time, but we tidied it up as soon as we had sufficient resource online.
If you think we've missed anything, please pop us a note and we'll happily review
Thanks,
Andy
It was sent for moderation early that particular day and approved and remained there for the majority of the day - 7 or 8 hours.
I got a message after 9pm that evening that the comment had been removed because it was deemed "off topic and not useful to thread discussion" - despite being approved 8 hours earlier.
At the same time, a comment was made on the same thread also earlier in the day that simply read "MR JUMP SHIP" so I posed the question as to how that comment was deemed to be "on" topic and useful to thread discussion compared to my one. Of course no answer was forthcoming.
It's clear that the moderator on duty that evening received the reported comment and just summarily removed it without a second thought - I'd wager they probably didn't even read the thread itself either.
I hope this Code of Conduct can address things like this.
I focussed mostly on HUKD when I found it but I used to post on MSE a lot years before I joined here - not really Deals, just chit-chat. And internet shopping was embryonic and just evolving when I first got an internet connection...
One of my rare 'internet shopping' MSE mentions was on an MSE bargain thread and it was a (reputable) UK perfume company. Someone came out of nowhere and said 'do you work for them?'
And they kept on and on at me - my post didn't read like an advertorial, it was just: here's a great deal, link and price.
After a while I did say 'I tend to post more on Hotukdeals' (thinking that it would support the fact I do post bargains here and there online - and they'd back off. I didn't give my profile name) and they actually told me to burger off there then! And I absolutely did!!
Sure, some people might be right on the money if it's self-promotion but I was a mature enough member of MSE to not show up on anyone's radar. Or so I thought! It was likely because I was new to that sub-thread, but that person was just horrible.
You can usually tell by someone's posting style if they're in it for themselves - people always show themselves eventually. If someone's new, give them the benefit of the doubt!!
TL;DR: It's happened to me, don't let it put you off. Though - I avoided MSE bargain threads after that! (edited)
It's going to make comments on some deals unreadable.
Re. a cat tree deal:
"It's a bit low, cats prefer looking down on everyone"
...deleted
Re. a colourful crayons deal:
"These have no flavour at all, disappointed"
...deleted
\o/ ???
I remember when this site was fun (in fact fun enough to have in-jokes like Loughborough man & Sony), but now pretty most every joke comment is removed. I get that they aren't exactly 'relevant to the deal' but this is still Britain, it's kinda what we do...?
We are way past polite political debate in the West, just accept that there are two kinds of people with two vastly different sets of social values and it's tiresome to engage with each other. Nobody has ever had a political epiphany in the last ten years and I'm bored of the same people shoving their social causes into everything via "book deals". There are plenty of other sites where people will furiously clap your political opinions, I don't see why we have to put up with them in here too
And that mod deals won't delete user posts that are critical of it something really is a good deal?
Lastly, will good user posted deals keep getting deleted (as several of my deals have been in the past years)?
This website has turned into a hollow shell of what it used to be and it's likely that users will break off to make their own website where all deals will be allowed and judged by the users only
So if the community team do review a new merchant for example, that review is based on our Publication Rules. Is a misconception that Community team will review a new seller posted by a member of our community based on the 'incentives' offered by that seller. We have no access to or knowledge of that information.
Re how selected content is incentivised, you can read more on the link below in our help centre article:
How does hotukdeals make money? (edited)
For example. "Deals" have been posted on this site of free kindle books that are only posted to highlight someones particular opinion on current World events. This obviously receives many glancing hot votes from people that do not understand the politics behind those books & the deal is just clickbait & often than not contains information of the "deal" that is factually incorrect but those who have an alternative view on the matter cannot post the corrective information that is in their mind information that can balance the opinion posted.
This has happened time & time again on HUKDs and as a result gives the impression that a majority of people on HUKDs support a particular opinion, when in fact, do they really? & even if they did they are not allowed to post particular facts on the matter because their opinions are censored.
These type of "deals" either need removing completely or alternative opinions & factual information needs to be allowed.
First I will say, we want to allow as many deals as possible. Kindle books are popular here, often go very hot (whatever reason people are voting for - we cannot judge intention accurately) and many people go on to buy them. So we'd be loathe to not allow them.
So then, if we allow them, how should we moderate? In the past, we have tended to removing comments that cause a lot of complaints. I think there is some sense to this, as we don't want people to come here and be offended. But obviously it also annoys those having their comments deleted.
So our general direction here is to give you guys some clear expectations - don't make personal comments, please try to see both sides, back up your points where you can - and in turn we'll try to allow more comments on deals where the topics are relevant. We need to work together with members to get the right balance though
Lastly, it's probably fair to say that some topics simply cannot be dealt with this way, at least right now. The Israel-Palestine topic for instance. Even prior to October 7, it was nigh on impossible to moderate - and ever since we simply shut the comments. Personally I really do not want to shut down any comments, but the resource required to keep it civil was way way more than we have available.
It's a skill issue. A good mod needs to be a paid employee with the relevant skillset. Unpaid mods lack the required skillset and compensate by being confidently wrong.
So I don't cry I just make sure I don't use their links for products I see listed here but can find in google.
If people wanted to get their attention they need to understand how this site generates revenue. (edited)
I think we could keep iterating our Code of Conduct but it would never ever be perfect because of the environment. So this is why we have the CATS model to help us. Two main reasons I say this:
1. Individual judgment - one moderator might consider something fine whereas another might consider it unacceptable. While not ideal, it is to be expected when you have a team of human beings working around the clock to do what they think is best. What I do think this updated Code of Conduct will do is encourage our teams to be more lenient or relaxed about the decisions they take. Maybe we (the people responsible for this team) have created a situation where they would rather be overcautious or fear taking the wrong decision and we take responsibility for that. This is why we created this project.
2. Competing parties - so many of the decisions our team has to take will come as a result of one member reporting another member for having done something. When this happens there will be one party happy with the decision and one party unhappy with the decision. This is really difficult to manage because the unhappy party feels aggrieved for a while and more often than not the situation does escalate. The team will try to explain the decision but when we have a ton of other member requests and work to do it isnt always possible.
---
One other point I want to make is that I get to see behind the scenes the work done by the support team and they get through a ridiculous amount of work on a daily basis. Not once have I witnessed them harassing members (if this is really what you're alleging) or displaying a bias for a topic or member. Sometimes we do get stuff wrong and we should never be afraid to acknowledge that but I want to make the point strongly that the team have never (in my 10+ years working with them) done anything which would cause me concern.
I see them working when they shouldn't be (I should ban them when they're off shift!), reaching out to members they are concerned about, getting upset about certain topics and some of the really unpleasant parts of the job like receiving some vulgar abuse.
Our community is so generous with their time and we're so lucky to have so many amazing members wanting to post deals, comments and engage. We never take that for granted.
Do you miss misc and fs/ft?
I do.
Humour is fair enough but not if it's adding more to an already very negative thread. This is a Deals site and it just puts casual readers off and / or makes the forum seem unfriendly. (I know Misc and Discussions exist but I rarely wander over to those..)
Mostly I agree with mods decisions but there isn't always consistency.
As for swearing, I noticed a few days ago the s word on one comment - people were asking why it hadn't been modded (they weren't complaining, just querying), so maybe that's why! It's fair enough as long as it's not an attack on a member.
edit: 'polite' is really important, though that applies to every corner of the internet, where it's very much lacking. Even MSE has its wandering trolls and snipers at times. Reddit and Twitter are (debatably) worse. (edited)
For example, I've had comments against Amazon subscribe and save deals that mention some of the things you have to be careful of with S&S repeatedly deleted as "Not relevant" because the deal poster complained (presumably because they might not get as much heat).
If that improves I'll consider using HUKD properly again, but if I see the same old I'll be off again.
Despite reporting it, because it is not a deal & therefore against the rules of HUKDs, it still remains. It is a prime example of the double standards of admin & also shows the side of the fence whoever looked at report & the selective nature of there moderation.
Also, something that came to light, yet again, is established members cold voting as soon as deals are posted regardless of the deal itself. I suggest all admin & "special" members have their ability to vote on deals removed. I suspect that will solve the issue.
I think the option to vote down should be removed and for some people to be denied the satisfaction they get from using it. Both voting up and down are misused but I think more so when it comes to the down vote.
A good example is when an offer is submitted for selected accounts only or a new customer offer. Some members clearly think it's a good offer and want to use it, or at least take a look, but because they are not eligible they vote it down which then stops a larger audience from seeing the offer.
If you submit a thread on here and make a mistake by putting a price which is lower than what you meant to submit then some members will vote it down.
If an item is out of stock or someone's size is out of stock or the price has gone up it may receive a down vote.
Duplicate threads also receive down votes. Down voting a duplicate thread really is pointless because the thread will be hidden from view.
The rest 10 % maybe deals in some people's eyes and related flip side comments on "those" deals . So all the mod's (revenue protection agents) comments and actions are geared towards protecting those revenue streams form advertisers and any adverse comments about those "special Offers" are summarily removed.
Nuff said.
Training Video:
A - My daughter created her account and posted a deal, one day later it was banned. Emails went unanswered. Why are we not allowing two family members having account at same IP address? I did ask this before but never got a response.
B - It's been nearly three years since we are not allowed to share under finance and savings. Initial response was that you are getting permission / licence from Financial authorities. Will it ever be allowed back to share or not?
Thank you
Sorry this may seem off topic, but it's really need an answer.
Really miss the Monese deals the most & every Very suggestion I have made since for the extra codes & discounts especially for new Very registrants gets deleted.
This is an on topic, polite question that should not be removed
I disagree that it is the overwhelming opinion of most HUKD members. For instance the comments in this thread alone are a very, very small number of the daily interactions our members have with the site and don't include the many thousands that use the site and comment and are active on a daily basis. I'm in a position where I speak to many members and receive messages and emails on a daily basis and to the contrary it's overwhelmingly positive. However that isn't to say there aren't members that are dissatisfied and this will often stem from a decision that they haven't agreed with and that is understandable. I read many untruths here and on review sites about 'moderator decisions' but these can often paint a very distorted picture without the facts. That isn't to say that sometimes we don't get it wrong, we do, we are human and it happens but then we will do all we can to rectify this and we are always open to suggestions and conversation. (edited)
And how the colours orange and grey make me feel
Is this something separate from this new project?
Yes good point, so please update us on this thread instead of ignoring everyones questions.
hotukdeals.com/sha…400
I'm very sceptical about this and just see it as a way for the moderation team to allow political comments that fits their agenda whilst continuing to shut down everyone else.
When a comment is deleted, is the commentor notified by PM? Is there policy (change) on this?