Days of Play Physical Sale - God Of War £7.99, Horizon Zero Dawn (Complete Ed) £7.99, DualSense £49.99, etc @ PlayStation Direct Store

To get any sort of worthwhile leap you must shrink the transistors on the main processor a decent amount. PS5 is on a TSMC 7nm node, a PS5 Pro might be possible on their 5nm but a much better bet for a good performance leap would be targeting 3nm. TSMC 5nm is happening for PC parts later this year, and that is more likely to be used to make the existing PS5 smaller, cheaper and use less power next year. Look out for a PS5 slim or whatever launching in 18 months.

3nm would be enough to add a bunch more performance without blowing the thermal budget but you're probably talking end of 2024 to get that viable for a console. Mass production of 3nm node starts this year, products hit the market 2023 but only for PC parts and the like. They always get first dibs on new nodes since production often starts slow and ramps, the costs to build a big chip on a new node are high and their profit margins are way better.

Consoles usually follow on a while later when production is up and running full tilt and costs come down a bit. In short it seems difficult to see a PS5 Pro for at least two more years.

If you are buying a controller go for blue, purple or pink as they have enhanced innards …. They are also £44.99 in all Game stores

neilydee25/05/2022 23:20

Why don't they just skip straight to 3nm?

Not quite sure what you mean, but these nodes are still under development and take time to come on stream. To set up a single factory for 5nm or 3nm these days costs tens of billions of dollars and several years to build. 3nm TSMC is a cutting edge process that is not fully mature or cheap enough to be pumping out millions of chips per year that would be required to support potential PS5 Pro sales and all the other electronics that might want to use that node. 5nm TSMC as I said is only really hitting mass market for large chips like desktop CPUs and GPUs later THIS year. Another year on for 3nm to really ramp for the same big margin markets and then more wait for typically low profit margin consoles.

They'll use 5nm on the existing PS5 processor design likely some time next year because at a crossover point between cost/volume when production is good enough shrinking the existing 7nm chip down to 5nm should end up cheaper/faster to make the machine overall. At the very least you get a better product that uses less power and generates less heat, so you can build a 'slim' model. Revised models usually help boost sales which can further justify the move.

It'll take a mature and ramped 3nm node to deliver a chip significantly faster than 7nm PS5 to actually market as a distinct upgrade. The touted 'Pro' version.

Are there no free games this year?

It's much more likely a slim model will appear before a pro model, from what I know. There are a few other chips that are causing more delays to ps5 production than the cpu/gpu.

As for chips and fabs. According to what I've seen and read. The tech industry are still saying 18 months or more before supply constraints even starts to ease a little. Intel's ceo Pat gelsinger has said he wants to spend over 100 billion over the next 10 years to build 8 to 10 new fabs in the USA, and Europe.

It takes 10 billion plus and years to build a fab. Once the building is built, they have to install everything. It all has to be cleaned over and over. They have to be super clean (class 1 I believe) and have positive and negative pressure to keep dust and dirt out.

There is also a waiting list to get all the machinery from applied materials that actually makes the wafers, substrates, lithography and chips.

Due to the cost of it all. They have to recover the cost and make a profit, before upgrading the machines to be able to do a new fabrication process. There are already chips being produced on 5 and 4 nm. IBM have cracked a 2nm process. But that will probably take 2 or 3 years or more before we see anything on a commercial scale.

AND yes, everything is about money. You have to ring every last drop of profit out of a product and process for as long as possible. Why do you think companies spend so much money on marketing their products and brands. Why spend your profits on changing your product and production machinery when you don't have to. If suckers, sorry I mean valued customers keep buying. The smaller you can make your costs the more money you make!

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:24

Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's …Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's gonna be sooner rather than later - late 23, early 24.Read lessRead more

Why not wait until 2027ish for the PS6? Or 2030ish for PS6 Pro?

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Official would be from Sony/MS so not official

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:24

Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's …Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's gonna be sooner rather than later - late 23, early 24.Read lessRead more

That's so far away still

"Official" - me thinks people need to go check the definition of that.

It's official people! Spread the word!

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

This is from the presentation of a budget TV manufacturer. (TCL) It's a guess at best.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Never going to happen with the current component shortage. Its been 2 years and not everyone can buy an PS5 or Series X normally yet.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Sigh. I hate the pro generations. But I guess FOMO makes them a lot of extra cash.

Push Square article on this exact subject - highly unlikely is their take. (edited)

8K Sony already put the 8K logo on the base PS5 packaging and still sometimes cannot achieve a stable 60 at 4K. What is it with Sony marketing. (edited)

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Yeah, you are not going to be getting a console that can output 4K/60-120 at console prices in 18 months time. The current consoles don't even do what that graphic claims anyway.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:24

Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's …Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's gonna be sooner rather than later - late 23, early 24.Read lessRead more

Cool… meanwhile I’ll just trade in current and pay £100-150 and get one after enjoying having one since day 1. Really don’t get your point lol.

neilydee26/05/2022 00:54

I just wonder why, when they know how to make 3nm, they can't just make …I just wonder why, when they know how to make 3nm, they can't just make that. Why do they need to make 5nm first? Seems daft. I'm sure it's probably something to do with the economics of making money off 5nm first to make 3nm cheaper or something. But WHY not skip that bull and just make 3nm. It's all cash dollar I guess. If they cut down shareholder dividends they could easily skip a gen. Stupid greedy humans.Read lessRead more

I mean how much did you pay for your ps5? I have the digital version which they most likely make at a loss, to make on games you buy for your console.
My pc on the other hand cost me like 2.2-2.3k ish to build and source parts even after getting a founders 3080 paying msrp. For them to do this for the ps5 you wouldn’t buy it, if you want better hardware buy a pc. My ps5 sits in my living room for chilled gaming, my pc is for competitive gaming or buying cheaper games on release.

dh2k25/05/2022 20:19

Official would be from Sony/MS so not official

Anyways, couldn't be any happier for holding off for a pro version! It's gonna be sooner rather than later - late 23, early 24.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

That’s literally just speculating, based on previous trends, for preparation in hardware releases

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Scalpers engaging their bots, ready for the tens of thousands of untaxed profits.

neilydee26/05/2022 00:54

I just wonder why, when they know how to make 3nm, they can't just make …I just wonder why, when they know how to make 3nm, they can't just make that. Why do they need to make 5nm first? Seems daft. I'm sure it's probably something to do with the economics of making money off 5nm first to make 3nm cheaper or something. But WHY not skip that bull and just make 3nm. It's all cash dollar I guess. If they cut down shareholder dividends they could easily skip a gen. Stupid greedy humans.Read lessRead more

Ahh OK. It's because it is evolutionary. It is very difficult to take the next step smaller and becoming more and more difficult and expensive. It takes years to develop, design it and build a new smaller manufacturing process. Iron out the issues. Build up volume production. The industry moves fast, demand for the next incremental step in performance is strong. That has driven these processor advances for the past 50 years.

So you always have several newer processes on the board and continuous development. 5nm is ready for TSMC so they will use that first. 3nm should work but it's further away down the line.

You don't go from the Wright flyer to a 747 without the steps in between.

smush25/05/2022 21:42

8K Sony already put the 8K logo on the base PS5 packaging and still …8K Sony already put the 8K logo on the base PS5 packaging and still sometimes cannot achieve a stable 60 at 4K. What is it with Sony marketing.Read lessRead more

Pong in 8K

a-j26/05/2022 02:35

From that perspective, there's nothing wrong with the claim; what …From that perspective, there's nothing wrong with the claim; what developers decide to have the machine do has nothing to do with what the machine is capable of doing.What is questionable though is the fact it can't (couldn't? I don't keep that up to date) do 8K until Sony update the firmware to be able to, just like with VRR.Read lessRead more

It's heavily misleading to the average consumer though as the hardware is not going to do 8K 99% of the time unless it is a bare bones casual game. As far as I'm aware the only game that is 8K is the The Touryst.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

8K uhd....how many people will even have an 8K TV then?

johnboylan1225/05/2022 20:49

Yeah, you are not going to be getting a console that can output 4K/60-120 …Yeah, you are not going to be getting a console that can output 4K/60-120 at console prices in 18 months time. The current consoles don't even do what that graphic claims anyway.Read lessRead more

Most pc’s struggle to get that with the choice to play at high textures and 1440p the much better option! Although I haven’t tested my build at native 4k yet.

Lord.vader27/05/2022 06:46

If you are buying a controller go for blue, purple or pink as they have …If you are buying a controller go for blue, purple or pink as they have enhanced innards …. They are also £44.99 in all Game storesRead lessRead more

What's enhanced? As I thought all the new coloured controllers had the stronger trigger springs.

EditJust seen the tear down video as see it's stronger springs on the new colours with a different PCB layout, it's a shame because if I was buying another controller I would go Black or Red, luckily I don't need another. (edited)

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Gotta get that 8K capable rendering for my 4K TV

vulcanproject25/05/2022 22:40

To get any sort of worthwhile leap you must shrink the transistors on the …To get any sort of worthwhile leap you must shrink the transistors on the main processor a decent amount. PS5 is on a TSMC 7nm node, a PS5 Pro might be possible on their 5nm but a much better bet for a good performance leap would be targeting 3nm. TSMC 5nm is happening for PC parts later this year, and that is more likely to be used to make the existing PS5 smaller, cheaper and use less power next year. Look out for a PS5 slim or whatever launching in 18 months.3nm would be enough to add a bunch more performance without blowing the thermal budget but you're probably talking end of 2024 to get that viable for a console. Mass production of 3nm node starts this year, products hit the market 2023 but only for PC parts and the like. They always get first dibs on new nodes since production often starts slow and ramps, the costs to build a big chip on a new node are high and their profit margins are way better. Consoles usually follow on a while later when production is up and running full tilt and costs come down a bit. In short it seems difficult to see a PS5 Pro for at least two more years.Read lessRead more

Why don't they just skip straight to 3nm?

vulcanproject25/05/2022 23:53

Not quite sure what you mean, but these nodes are still under development …Not quite sure what you mean, but these nodes are still under development and take time to come on stream. To set up a single factory for 5nm or 3nm these days costs tens of billions of dollars and several years to build. 3nm TSMC is a cutting edge process that is not fully mature or cheap enough to be pumping out millions of chips per year that would be required to support potential PS5 Pro sales and all the other electronics that might want to use that node. 5nm TSMC as I said is only really hitting mass market for large chips like desktop CPUs and GPUs later THIS year. Another year on for 3nm to really ramp for the same big margin markets and then more wait for typically low profit margin consoles.They'll use 5nm on the existing PS5 processor design likely some time next year because at a crossover point between cost/volume when production is good enough shrinking the existing 7nm chip down to 5nm should end up cheaper/faster to make the machine overall. At the very least you get a better product that uses less power and generates less heat, so you can build a 'slim' model. Revised models usually help boost sales which can further justify the move.It'll take a mature and ramped 3nm node to deliver a chip significantly faster than 7nm PS5 to actually market as a distinct upgrade. The touted 'Pro' version.Read lessRead more

I just wonder why, when they know how to make 3nm, they can't just make that. Why do they need to make 5nm first? Seems daft. I'm sure it's probably something to do with the economics of making money off 5nm first to make 3nm cheaper or something. But WHY not skip that bull and just make 3nm. It's all cash dollar I guess. If they cut down shareholder dividends they could easily skip a gen. Stupid greedy humans.

smush25/05/2022 21:42

8K Sony already put the 8K logo on the base PS5 packaging and still …8K Sony already put the 8K logo on the base PS5 packaging and still sometimes cannot achieve a stable 60 at 4K. What is it with Sony marketing.Read lessRead more

From that perspective, there's nothing wrong with the claim; what developers decide to have the machine do has nothing to do with what the machine is capable of doing.

What is questionable though is the fact it can't (couldn't? I don't keep that up to date) do 8K until Sony update the firmware to be able to, just like with VRR. (edited)

PS5 needs afew more chipset shrinkages until they can get to a slim and pro.

Citizenkane34525/05/2022 20:12

It's official people! Spread the word! [Image]

Misinformation, sorry

stingersplash26/05/2022 21:21

8K uhd....how many people will even have an 8K TV then?

You can get a 65” OLED for under £1,000 these days. I would bet there will be a lot of 8K sets working their way into many more homes very soon.

deleted221565725/05/2022 21:03

Scalpers engaging their bots, ready for the tens of thousands of untaxed pr …Scalpers engaging their bots, ready for the tens of thousands of untaxed profits.Read lessRead more

Why do you think it's untaxed?

liam_green27/05/2022 14:40

I mean how much did you pay for your ps5? I have the digital version which …I mean how much did you pay for your ps5? I have the digital version which they most likely make at a loss, to make on games you buy for your console. My pc on the other hand cost me like 2.2-2.3k ish to build and source parts even after getting a founders 3080 paying msrp. For them to do this for the ps5 you wouldn’t buy it, if you want better hardware buy a pc. My ps5 sits in my living room for chilled gaming, my pc is for competitive gaming or buying cheaper games on release.Read lessRead more

Producing exactly the same machine with exactly the same components allows for the bulk of that cost to be negated.

deleted221565726/05/2022 08:18

Pong in 8K

With 3D Audio (edited)

twistedpixel28/05/2022 16:15

You can get a 65” OLED for under £1,000 these days. I would bet there will …You can get a 65” OLED for under £1,000 these days. I would bet there will be a lot of 8K sets working their way into many more homes very soon.Read lessRead more

Most people still only buy DVDs I've never spent a grand on anything, I'm still looking for a 4K TV but just can't pull the trigger.

stingersplash29/05/2022 03:53

Most people still only buy DVDs I've never spent a grand on anything, …Most people still only buy DVDs I've never spent a grand on anything, I'm still looking for a 4K TV but just can't pull the trigger.Read lessRead more

Most people don't even bother with DVDs now with all the streaming services, at least that's how it looks to me.

If you have a PS5 or Xbox Series X then don't waste your money on a cheap £500 4K TV or you won't benefit from their latest technology, great HDR and VRR.

SnoopZ29/05/2022 11:30

Most people don't even bother with DVDs now with all the streaming …Most people don't even bother with DVDs now with all the streaming services, at least that's how it looks to me.If you have a PS5 or Xbox Series X then don't waste your money on a cheap £500 4K TV or you won't benefit from their latest technology, great HDR and VRR.Read lessRead more

I don't have either. I'm happy with XB1S and PS4

Does anyone know if ps store credit can be used here?
Edit: for the controllers (edited)