bbc.co.uk/new…436
Putting aside the absolute tragedy of the death of the cyclist, how many people sympathise with the feelings that cyclists shouldn't be on the pavement? I've never shouted or gestured at cyclists but I've definitely thought unkind mishaps toward them. Was it the fact that she showed no remorse that she got the jail sentence?
Putting aside the absolute tragedy of the death of the cyclist, how many people sympathise with the feelings that cyclists shouldn't be on the pavement? I've never shouted or gestured at cyclists but I've definitely thought unkind mishaps toward them. Was it the fact that she showed no remorse that she got the jail sentence?
Share with Messenger
246 Comments
sorted byrozenberg.substack.com/p/w…ars
An extract:
"You have been convicted of manslaughter after a re-trial. You gave no evidence at trial one or two. In broad terms, the issue at trial was whether what took place might have been an accident, self-defence or unlawful violence. You were convicted unanimously by the jury.
Most of what took place was captured on camera footage. You were walking on the pavement. You resented the presence of an oncoming cyclist. The footage shows you shouting aggressively and waving your left arm. You do not stop, slow down or move to one side. You are territorial about the pavement and not worried for your own safety. After careful thought, I concluded these actions are not explained by your disabilities.
The court heard evidence from a number of witnesses, and I found William Walker to be reliable and thoughtful. He is a cyclist and driver. He said that you and Mrs Ward appeared to have come to a halt in front of each other and you made a lateral sweeping movement with your left arm which was directed at Mrs Ward. He said “it either made contact or she recoiled and fell”. She fell into the busy ring road where she was killed by a passing car driven by Carla Money.
This was, I think, a shared path for cyclists and pedestrians that allowed them to go around the busy ring road. The vital point is this: I am sure you knew cyclists used that path and you were not taken by surprise or in fear for your safety. The path at the point of collision 2.4 metres wide.
I have considered the evidence about eyesight and the CCTV footage and visual impairment was not a factor in this incident."
Nearly clashed with a group of joggers on city centre streets as well but they're not quite as dangerous! Then there's the skateboarders... That's maybe why I tolerate it more, as I see it pretty much every day.
The pedestrian with mobility and sensory issues must have had problems with cyclists before, which is why she's so defensive - maybe? Neither of them were willing to stop (personally I'd have stopped in my tracks, just in case), whether stubbornness or a misreading of the situation, I'm not sure, but there must have been enough evidence to convict the pedestrian?
Ultimately it was an avoidable accident and it shouldn't have happened. The videos I've seen haven't shown the full events clearly, and you can't quite see what occurred at the end (though I'm sure it's been edited before the accident to respect the deceased). (edited)
Who was to know the lady was in the right to cycle on the path.
A very sad accident & the cyclists looked to be proceeding towards the pedestrian.
Sorry, I hope she appeals & wins.
It is "nice" of the authority to say it was a shared path to avoid liability.
The only thing I do not like is the fact the woman wondered off to Sainsbury to get her shopping. Which is pretty vile.
If that's not clear enough: causing someone's death is a worse crime than cycling on the pavement.
3 years is an injustice for the family.
Pulling out on me at junctions, cutting each other up, trying to overtake each over, tailgating.
I've been wiped out twice by morons in cars but never been hit by a cyclist or a motorcycle.
Let’s be right, there are idiots on 4 wheels and two wheels.
What if it had been the other way around?
The cyclist causing a pedestrian death?
That's pretty much cut and dry - the cyclist shouldn't have been on the public footpath...
Like the roads, the cars have to stay out of the cycle lanes, out of the bus lanes etc We've spent an absolute fortune on the roads for cyclists (at our expense - not theirs) and yet they still refuse to use the roads.
This woman should never have ended up in jail and sad as it is, the cyclist should never have been on the public FOOTPATH!
As for the excuse that there would have been ample room, what if it was a mum with her pram and kids? There's lots I can come up with and some have already given their thoughts which are right, but, the cyclist should never have been on the path - end of.
Question...
What if it had been the other way around?
The cyclist causing a pedestrian death?
That's pretty much cut and dry - the cyclist shouldn't have been on the public footpath...
Like the roads, the cars have to stay out of the cycle lanes, out of the bus lanes etc We've spent an absolute fortune on the roads for cyclists (at our expense - not theirs) and yet they still refuse to use the roads.
This woman should never have ended up in jail and sad as it is, the cyclist should never have been on the public FOOTPATH!
As for the excuse that there would have been ample room, what if it was a mum with her pram and kids? There's lots I can come up with and some have already given their thoughts which are right, but, the cyclist should never have been on the path - end of. (edited)
Ah, I see Mr "I Pay My Road Tax" has arrived. In reality, all taxpayers fund the roads, whether they are motorists or not. Sounds a bit unfair doesn't it?
As for the rest of it: just imagine the cyclist had driven the pedestrian off the pavement into the path of a car by shouting, swearing, waving her arm and refusing to give any ground. She'd deserve jail, wouldn't she? So why do you want to let this pedestrian off the hook? Do you think it's fine what she did, and the cyclist deserved to die?
Even if the cyclist was not supposed to be there: causing someone to lose their life is a far worse crime than cycling on a pavement.
Even though the pedestrian doesnt come across as a particularly nice person, not sure how she can be deemed responsible for this unfortunate death.
And spare a thought for the poor driver of the car that ended up hitting the cyclist (edited)
If I push you into the road just as a bus takes you out can I claim, my little push wasn’t anywhere near enough to kill you, it was the inertial force of the bus that caused all the damage?
People’s actions have consequences - even if it’s beyond what they were expecting - and should be held accountable as a result.
It’s about time we started acting like adults again and took responsibility for ourselves, rather than making excuses or blaming a third party.
I mean, why was this woman ranting and raving over things so trivial - was anything going to be gained by it?
dailymail.co.uk/new…tml
Purely from that vid, IMO, it looks very much like she pushes her, or at least gestures right in her face. You can see her learning towards the cyclist with her left arm outstretched. It's unfortunate that it's barely in camera view.
I think she deserves that sentence after seeing the end of that vid, you don't gesture towards a cyclist that close to the road, irrespective of whether she should be on the path or not.
Here's a large Youtube version of the video, which can be played frame-by-frame with the comma, fullstop keys for PC users.
The black mark is where this very large, disabled lady, who could not move out of the way, left leg was.
She could not avoid the bike, although it was traveling towards her. The cyclist should have stopped. Even so not take her on the right which was the smallest width of a man hole cover. Obviously narrower than that in real life because of the overhang of the pedestrians shoulder & arm. An that would be without any clearance distance.
Thanks for your picture though.
The handlebars are usually the widest part of the bike and those don't appear to hit the pedestrian because the wheel would have turned to its left, and it doesn't.
Also if you look at marks on the pavement where the woman is walking, she appears to edge very slightly closer to the path of the cyclist rather than edging away as any normal person not intent on confronting the person coming the other way would do.
Anyway, she was convicted by a jury who would have studies all the video, heard all the testimony and evidence and are far better informed to judge than any of us armchair judges on here, and they found her guilty. (edited)
Pointing out the mistakes of the cyclist isn't endorsement of the pedestrian's actions.
In this instance both sides made mistakes.
- The pedestrian shouldn't have been territorial about the pavement.
- The pedestrian shouldn't have intimidated the cyclist with aggressive gesticulation.
- The cyclist shouldn't have attempted to pass the pedestrian on the outside of the pavement, with minimal space.
- The cyclist shouldn't have been wearing a shoulder bag as this almost certainly contributed to her loss of balance.
I don't know enough of the pedestrian's state of mind to know if she chose to be aggressive, but what is clear is that the cyclist chose to cycle dangerously.
IMO cycling on pavements is inherently dangerous because:
1) The curb works against you.
Your elevated position above the roadway means if you lose control of your bike it will naturally roll into the road.
2) Cars on the road will not reserve space for a cyclist on the pavement, so if you transition to the road (intentionally or not) you're momentarily placing yourself in great danger.
3) Pavements are not maintained to nearly the same quality as roads.
4) Pedestrians are more unpredictable than cars.
Stay on the road; it's safer!
This narcissistic woman deserves the jail sentence, her aggressive behavior forced this poor woman onto an on coming car. The lack of remorse just aggravated the entire situation.
As a driver, at times i feel its safer for cyclists to cycle on pavements if being considerate to walkers.
Her actions caused a death that could have been avoided regardless of anything else.
It's not great that she didn't hang around to wait for the emergency services and went shopping but she didn't make the person on the bike abruptly change position and fall into the road, big gap between both until they met at the tight spot of the lamp post but the pedestrian has the right of way, it wasn't a cycle path clearly, and trying to act as if it was one is only causing more trouble.
How on earth charges have been made on this woman is beyond belief. I'm reading jailed for 3 years for manslaughter? that is just ridiculous, how have the jurors come to this decision?
Quote from Detective:
""Everyone will have their own views of cyclists on pavements and cycleways, but what is clear is Grey's response to the presence of Celia on a pedal cycle was totally disproportionate and ultimately found to be unlawful, resulting in Celia's untimely and needless death."
How was it unlawful???????? Not allowed to shout at someone in the street now? (edited)
If you look at this video in slow motion, it does seem that the cyclist was pushed.
Looks like the woman hasn't helped herself and I cant help but think if she's partially sighted then she might have had loads of these problems before so so might have been really confrontational about it right from the start.
Just walking off to then go and buy groceries does show no remorse or care.
Many people will be thinking that she will have 3 years to think about that now.
The cyclist should have been on the road and not the pavement IMO, if the pavement is a shared lane then it should have been clearly signed as such.
If the cyclist wasn't too good on the bike then maybe on the narrow bit she should have walked with the bike?
I feel sorry for the cyclists family and mostly for the innocent motorist and that drivers family who then killed her and that's with them for life....
Her actions caused a death.
As it was an intentional threatening act towards the cyclist it gets classed as manslaughter.
It appears that cyclist had time to stop but did not. Perhaps the cyclist wasn't paying attention? It would seem so.
At the end of the clip you can also clearly see the cyclist still moving directly in front of her. & towards her.
What actions do you prefer she made to ensure she wasn't hit?
District Judge Leo Pyle said: "Pavements are for pedestrians and people in wheelchairs or infants in prams. They are supposed to be free of vehicles of any type."
The 14 year old was given a 12 month referral order.
BBC report (edited)
The location 258 B6020 - Google Maps does have shared cycle paths as well as sections with dedicated cycle lanes.
Not Rainworth but Nottingham city (same council) also has been one of the most prolific in their e-scooters trials ongoing although hardly directly comparable to an illegal privately owned e-scooter. (edited)
77 year old so probably not very fast (edited)
You're of limited mobility.
A cyclist is coming towards you on a narrow footpath, busy road on one side, metal fence on the other.
Shouting at the cyclist to avoid a collision that would endanger your own life certainly seems like a reasonable reaction to me.
Hell I'd probably do exactly the same myself!
Though the pedestrian really damaged their case by leaving the scene, especially if their presence might've saved the cyclist's life. (edited)
If you watch the slo-mo version of the video, you can see that the fat woman stops and swivels her body towards the granny as they pass, arm outstretched. She belongs in jail.
I was attacked once because a car couldn't get passed me, he hit my handle bars got out of his car screaming at me so I stopped to get his details, he grabbed my phone out of my hands & threw it in someone's garden lol.
There are not enough cycle lanes & pedestrians don't want you on the pavement & crazy car & van drivers don't want you on the road.
So many places dont have sufficent signage to show a speed limit or if a path is a shared path..... I just fear more accidents :-(
This is my interpretation of what the video is showing, but perhaps others have interpreted it differently.
Pedestrian is walking in middle of path.
Two orange posts can be seen in the fence.
At start of video, pedestrian is beyond the top orange post
Lamp post on the near side of the path, just beyond the second orange post.
Pedestrian walking pace does not change.
Due to the speed of travel, it was likely that the pedestrian would be at the level of the lamp post by the time the cyclist reached that point
At the level of the lamp post, there would only be enough room for the cyclist or the pedestrian to be on the path. There would not be space for both.
Cyclist had the opportunity to slow down or stop due to insufficient space for cycle, lamp post and pedestrian
Cyclist chose to continue cycling.
Cyclist cycled past the pedestrian but was very close to the edge of the kerb.
Cyclist lost control, wobbled and fell into the road.
Has anyone interpreted the video differently?
It is sad that someone has died, but it seems that neither the pedestrian or the cyclist were going to give way to each other on the foot path.
What does the highway code say about cyclists and pedestrians on footpaths?
- who should have had priority and who should have given way? (edited)
Pedestrians are not considerate of other pedestrians. There are fast ones and slow ones, ones that have their heads down in their phones deserve getting a scare. Honestly, they need lanes in busy town centres and shopping malls.
The pedestrians general demeanour seemed aggressive (fom my perspective) before she was within reach of the cyclist. She looked like she wanted the confrontation, likely not to hurt the cyclist but to make her point loud and clear. (edited)
TBH, I suspect there's more involved in this than the video and article suggests. A history of this behaviour, perhaps? (edited)
It is STILL illegal to ride on any pavement that isn't a designated shared use cycle track. Highway Act 1835 (legislation.gov.uk)
The gulf between bicycles and motor vehicles is far bigger in terms of weight and speed than that between cyclists and pedestrians. Even with all the safety tech on cars it's hard to imagine that the average injury in an incident between cyclists and motor vehicles is less severe than between cyclists and pedestrians.
bbc.co.uk/new…789
Probably engine failure as they all have this issue (albeit Ford deny such problems despite hundreds of thousands of issues worldwide)
its their right to control the pavement and the road
if only cyclists gave pedestrians the same amount of respect that they demand from motorists on the road……
But the pedestrian here forced the lady into the road causing her death. Had she just moved to one side then none of this would have happened. Cyclists have been riding on pavements since I was born. The fact that pavements are less busier than back in the 80s and fact less cyclists from what I have noticed then kids on the bikes I personally don't see the big issues here. Cyclists are generally safe and look out for hazards from my experience. I guess everyone will have there own opinion but personally sometimes I think pedestrian like to think they 6ft wide then 6ft high and seem to want the whole path to themselves again it's from my personal opinion. I see cyclists on pavements and move to one side.
No issues with bikes on a pavement but the pedestrian has right of way unless a real designated cycle path, and this wasn't.
Not sure why people think pedestrian has to yield when the person riding on the path is wrong (but i understand its acceptable).
Was there any physical contact between these two?
Can't see any markings/signs suggesting the footpath is shared use.